The NPC meme controversy

[paleologos]

From BBC:
Why has Twitter banned 1500 accounts and what are NPCs?

And...

If I got it right some right wing activists created accounts on Twitter for the purpose of posing as left-wing group-thinkers in order to mock the ideas and rhetoric of leftists.
Twitter deleted several hundred accounts on the excuse that they were not accounts of "real" people.
If that is correct there is some irony here:
People trying to demonstrate that leftists have become so ideologically possessed, they can no longer converse like real individuals are themselves treated like they are no real individuals.

What do you think?
Did I get what happened correctly?
Was Twitter in the right to suspend said accounts?


Also, another thing just came to my attention and it's pretty much the same derision from the part of the left.
Conservative Pundit Barbies

[The spartan]

Do you happen to have an article or something that goes more in depth on this topic? I am not familiar with the event.

[paleologos]

First post updated.
Leftist outlets give a very different account of the event that right-wing ones, so we can be sure that that this is a real controversy that strikes nerves on both ends of the political spectrum.

[The spartan]

Much appreciated. This is interesting, but I think ultimately inconsequential and exerting too much focus on it only benefits the creators of the meme. Partisan reddit members use a 4chan meme to troll on twitter and twitter bans their accounts. Was Twitter in the right to do so? Well, it was certainly their own right to do so, and whether you think it was morally a good or bad thing is going to be pretty subjective. To me, it isn't something worth worrying about; these accounts were made in bad faith so I don't see why they deserve much sympathy. Twitter shouldn't have to tolerate malicious actors if it doesn't want to.

[paleologos]

Much appreciated. This is interesting, but I think ultimately inconsequential and exerting too much focus on it only benefits the creators of the meme. Partisan reddit members use a 4chan meme to troll on twitter and twitter bans their accounts. Was Twitter in the right to do so? Well, it was certainly their own right to do so, and whether you think it was morally a good or bad thing is going to be pretty subjective. To me, it isn't something worth worrying about; these accounts were made in bad faith so I don't see why they deserve much sympathy.

Most of the above is either fact I am not in the position to dispute, or opinion that I mostly share.
I certainly do share it on principle.

Twitter shouldn't have to tolerate malicious actors if it doesn't want to.

This is where we partly part (pun not intended).
Twitter has not merely taken it upon itself to decide whether to tolerate or not malicious actors.
It has taken it upon itself to decide which actors are malicious.
Furthermore the process by which such decisions are made is neither transparent, nor appeal-able, leaving Twitter open to accusations of double standards and partiality.

Are we supposed to remain unconcerned about the possibility that social media entrepreneurs will take a page from the more traditional media's book (think Breitbart)?
If right wing posters are chased away there will be a market for social media outlets that don't chase them away.
Left wingers will simply not use such social media.

The echo chamber effect will intensify and the world's most powerful nation will further polarize.
I reside several thousand kilometers away from the eye of this storm but I see how this can threaten me.

[irontaino]

It seems buzzwords like SJW and cuck have lost their edge, so now the alt-right/incels decided on a new one. Since these were sock puppet accounts being shut down, I don't really see an issue with Twitter's actions.

[Sir Adrian]

Why are people still paying twitter any attention?

[Prodromos]

It's funny 'cause it's true.

[Himster]

Judging by Reddit's and 4Chan's usual numbers for things like this, the 1500 seems like a ridiculously low number. It should be in the hundreds of thousands, so we know there still are many many more and now with the publicity and the inherent humour of the phenomena we're going to see even more. The best part is: unless explicitly stated it will be impossible to tell the difference between the fakes and the people who actually have these "views". It reminds me of the fake social science papers published earlier this year, including a whole chapter from Mein Kampf where "Jew" was replaced with "White-Cis-Male".

It's hilarious.

[Genghis Skahn]

Yeah, like Himster said, despite Twitter fuming over this(and I agree with Paleologos latter sentiments), these guys are literal masters of Poe's Law. In all honesty I'm sure many of them are actually glad that Twitter stupidly banned those fake accounts(they may have even planned it, since history has shown that they are capable of predicting such behavior from their ideological opponents in the past), since it gives the meme the attention they crave, while simultaneously making Twitter and their targets of mockery look more silly than they already are IMO. Hilarious stuff. It's quite literally amazing how angry some people are over this(assuming those twitter accounts raging about it posted on KnowYourMeme are real and not the sockpuppets designed to mock them--although it's may be extremely difficult to tell them apart at this point).

[Aexodus]

It’s actually getting a bit weird how much influence ing 4chan has. First the OK hand sign now this

[Himster]

I've been reading a bit more about it now and it turns out that this was exactly their plan. To prove that this ideology is nothing more than a limited set of predictable preprogrammed lines, they predicted exactly how these "NPCs" would react in September....... and they fell for it.

The more I find out the more hilarious it gets.

[Genghis Skahn]

I've been reading a bit more about it now and it turns out that this was exactly their plan. To prove that this ideology is nothing more than a limited set of predictable preprogrammed lines, they predicted exactly how these "NPCs" would react in September....... and they fell for it.

The more I find out the more hilarious it gets.

This isn't the first time that's happened:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-okay-to-be-white

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1310...ay-to-be-white

Whatever your feelings about them, they certainly know how to predict the behavior of their targets of mockery.

It’s actually getting a bit weird how much influence ing 4chan has. First the OK hand sign now this

Not to mention the Australian Senate's voting on this meme, which you raised in the mudpit's Discussion and Debate thread just a few days ago. Kind of hard to even imagine, almost.

[Aexodus]

Exactly, 4chan, managed to make Australia vote against a motion, ‘it’s okay to be white’ because it was used by the alt-right (which is kinda correct really) In fact they only missed it by 3 votes.

So, Canada’s anti-Islamaphobia bill is an Islamist dog whistle then

But where’s the left wing version of 4chan, I wonder...

[Genghis Skahn]

But where’s the left wing version of 4chan, I wonder...

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sites/leftypol

[Heathen Hammer]

I think it is about striking the nerve, especially of the left-leaning big tech, which views it as sorta personal insult, like those memes about Zuckerberg being an android or how Infowars got banned from most "progressive" platforms for discussing pedophile infestation among the Western liberal elites too much.
But there is an interesting aspect to it. I mean what is an NPC? It is a "robot", a person who doesn't think for themselves and accepts other opinions without any critical thinking which is quite the description of an average person who votes for neoliberal or leftist politicians and supports their policies. It doesn't really apply to right-wingers, since to become one you really have to go against the currents of liberal academia and overwhelmingly leftist media.

[paleologos]

...accepts other opinions without any critical thinking which is quite the description of an average person who votes for neoliberal or leftist politicians and supports their policies.

If only you could realize how this reads.

It doesn't really apply to right-wingers, since to become one you really have to go against the currents of liberal academia and overwhelmingly leftist media.

The broken clock shows the correct time twice a day, they say.
It seems you believe your ideological opponents are always in the wrong about everything, while your thinkalikes are always correct about everything.
That's the definition of the groupthink affliction.

[Heathen Hammer]

If only you could realize how this reads.



The broken clock shows the correct time twice a day, they say.
It seems you believe your ideological opponents are always in the wrong about everything, while your thinkalikes are always correct about everything.
That's the definition of the groupthink affliction.

That's not what I said.
I didn't say right-wingers are always right about everything, but they do have critical thinking skills that are necessary to go against the currents of media and academia, which seek to indoctrinate the population with the opposite ideas. Hence why NPC meme did hit the spot when targeting neoliberals and leftists who never question their own beliefs.

[paleologos]

You sort of invited this elephant in the room:
Nazi Germany is a perfect example of a right-wing country in which the vast majority of the population were rather compatible with state ideology.
They were certainly not critical about electing those thugs to power.
People from every part of the political spectrum are equally prone to putting their mental faculties on the back burner when their tribal affiliation kicks in.

And what you posted can certainly be interpreted (however correctly/incorrectly) as "someone who even occasionally agrees with neoliberal/leftist ideas/politicians/mass media must be ideologically possessed, or uncritical".
It can also be interpreted as "someone who has the ability to use their mental faculties will inevitably be a right-winger".

I am not saying that this is what you believe.
What I am saying is that you need to make room in your thought for the possibility that certain aspects of "right" wing mindset are rightly opposed by some of the people who oppose them.
Additionally, there are the aspects of "right" wing mindset some -otherwise- right wing people may disagree with and those aspects that left wingers might agree with.

Just be cautious about wording your opinion in a way that invites suspicions of groupthink on your part.



Furthermore I would like to add a couple of examples of groupthink making people from all over the political spectrum look dumb:

Many on the left claim that gender is mainly socially constructed, but it can be also be fluid and arbitrarily chosen, regardless of what biologists may have to say about it. They also claim that fixed categories only serve as means of oppression and that we ought to trust the science of climate change.
Right wingers pretty much say the opposite.

To the above I ask: Are we going to trust the scientific consensus in each field of scientific endeavor, or not?
Science is rightly unaffected by my/your politics, it is supposed to be that way.
Am I supposed to disregard science when it suits me and deride as knuckle draggers those who do just the same when it suits them?

Another example comes from the rhetoric of the left, I am paraphrasing here:
"Blue collar people who take their shower at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day are working longer hours, for less pay, in crappier jobs, while more than half of their output accrues to the top 1%" and "minorities are oppressed by the privileged white cis-male".
To which I have no choice but to observe: many of the blue collar people you are talking about are white cis-males, so which is it? Are they privileged oppressors or are they being themselves given the bad end of the stick?

[Heathen Hammer]

Thing is, right-wingers are a rather diverse bunch, from nationalists, conservatives and monarchists to radical environmentalists and libertarians.
Sure, there are some right-wingers with objectively wrong ideas and visa versa. But that doesn't change the fact that to be a right-winger in this day and age you need an ability to critically take in information and be a free thinker.
But that's why NPC meme does work - it reflects that leftists and supporters of neoliberalism do not question ideas that are propagated by academia and mainstream media. Contrary to media claim its not people who post such memes that "dehumanize" them, since they dehumanize themselves by refusing to question these ideas and mindlessly accepting media narratives.
Also of course science can be affected by politics. From destruction of libraries by Christian mobs in Rome to Soviet Lysenkoism, science had always been manipulated for political reasons.