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Thread: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

  1. #1
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    Hello, i was wondering if anyone knows where the limit is for polygons/vertices etc regarding Medieval 2 models after applying the 4GB patch required for all the recent mods to function - such as Warhammer: BotET, WarcraftTW and Third Age: DAC.

    - A guide from back in 2006 said between 600 - 700 pixels for the original, and that is very low indeed.

    - A guide from 2010 said under 6k polygons is fine, above 6k and people would complain about lag.

    Thing is, the Rome: Total War modification "Total War: 1942" is using tanks with an 8k polygon count - so Med2 would be unable to handle what Rome can handle if the polygon count were below 6k.

    I do believe that the patch has made Rome better as well.

    The question is, if Rome can handle 8k polygons without laging when patching it - what can Medieval 2 handle?

    I need to know, because i have gotten a tank from Dagovax - one of the creators of Total War: 1942, and it's on 20k polygons in it's best form. I am not sure how many polygons the Warcraft models have but they are of great quality and do not lag. Sometimes they cause CTD if they are too big and too many.

    In any case, i want to test adding a working Japanese tank to Republic of China: 1924 - which i have permission to release at moddb - gotten from the creator after asking in person.

    - I am not sure if the tank needs to be lowered in quality or not.

    I have an outdated WW1 British tank and an outdated WW1 plane in the mod, but they CTD mid-battle - i am going to let my teammember Bantu check them out to see if they have any errors with vertices or such. Can't be used when they CTD in the middle of battles all the time.

    - But Dagovax, after i joined his team for Total War: 1942 has allowed me to use the models of that mod in 1924. That is why i want an estimate on what would be best in terms of model quality - we could simply use RTW quality but i do think the models should be as good looking as Med2 allows. Currently i am only interested in testing one tank and one plane.

    - So by finding out what levels of vertices and polygons it should use for Med 2, i would avoid issues with hardcoded limits or lag - the 4gb patch makes the game able to handle more. As such the old recommendations don't apply.
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    Last edited by Mr_Nygren; October 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM.
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  2. #2
    Celtic Magister's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    Considering that the evolution of PC capabilities has been rapid since 2010, I would not be surprised that people thought Med 2 could only handle 6k polys at max, however, this engine is far more versatile than people give credit for. In DATW for example, the polycount for units is around 12k-15k polys at max, and other Med 2 mods have gone even higher. Whether or not this causes lag depends on the 4GB Patch, graphic settings, and the player's hardware.

    Bear in mind that there is indeed a polycount max for Med 2, which if exceeded, will cause the game to crash. I've heard it's around 40k. Any polycount over 20k-25k though will cause significant lag. Optimally, Med 2 models should be around 8k-15k, so you don't need to lower the tank's quality at all.
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  3. #3
    Mr_Nygren's Avatar Berserkir
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    Default Re: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Magister View Post
    Considering that the evolution of PC capabilities has been rapid since 2010, I would not be surprised that people thought Med 2 could only handle 6k polys at max, however, this engine is far more versatile than people give credit for. In DATW for example, the polycount for units is around 12k-15k polys at max, and other Med 2 mods have gone even higher. Whether or not this causes lag depends on the 4GB Patch, graphic settings, and the player's hardware.

    Bear in mind that there is indeed a polycount max for Med 2, which if exceeded, will cause the game to crash. I've heard it's around 40k. Any polycount over 20k-25k though will cause significant lag. Optimally, Med 2 models should be around 8k-15k, so you don't need to lower the tank's quality at all.
    Hello Celtic Magister,

    - Thanks for your answer! I will try to get a model in the size you suggested between 8 and 15k polygons.

    As you say people might have thought it was the engine with a 6k limit, when the lag might have been due to the sucky computers back then as well - with the 4GB patch things are greatly improved as well.

    I also think the reason the WW1-tank and the ww1-plane is causing a CTD is due to them being counted as elephants and having trouble in melee combat. I think maybe Hyrule/Warhammer tank-animations could solve that for the tank.

    I would use the British WW1 tank for all the factions rather than using Hyrule/Warhammer tanks, but if i have no choice i would probably use an Hyrule tank. The WW2-tank would be best but then i would need a modeller such as Bantu Chieftain to help me rig it.

    - And he has his hands full with Warcraft - Dagovax is kind enough to help but lacks skills with Med2-models and as such they are CAS turned into 3DS when they need to be MS3D - i will try to convert the model to MS3D and send to Bantu. If i get that Japanese WW2 tank then Japan and the Republic of China would use it. - Britain and the West would use the older British tank lol - even though it would have better stats than a WW1 tank.

    Maybe i could get a Soviet WW2-tank, as well as WW2-tanks for the British, the USA and the French.

    - Germany isn't in the mod.

    The mod without tanks wouldn't be as fun so i see that as a big priority to fix. I know the latest Chinese release has cool tanks and planes but they don't release it to the public for free so i am kinda shut-out of the 1.2 version and will have to deal with the older 1.0. Also, the improved version is in chinese language even though i would have loved to use the tanks and planes inside of it.
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    Last edited by Mr_Nygren; October 16, 2018 at 11:57 PM.
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  4. #4
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    My latest release (peasant crossbowmen) will be in the range of slightly over 30k triangles in the lod0 for the entire mesh set (all figures variations).
    I have also made the other lods but I have tested the lod0 alone and it works just fine on a 2006 GPU, with the best graphics settings in the game.
    The totality of polygons the game engine can handle far-far exceeds the amount of polygons that milkshape can handle per model (in the range of 30K, depending on groups).
    Milkshape is the limitation.

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  5. #5
    Celtic Magister's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    @Mr_Nygren, You are welcome! That tank model's looking great. Because unit size on those are pretty low, you could get away with those being 20-25k polys I'll wager. Same goes for any other vehicles such as planes or perhaps battleships in that mod.

    @Paleologos, You might just be correct, however, whether or not high poly models cause lag depends on lod levels and sprite rendering distance set in the BMDB. I prefer being as minimal as possible polycount wise just to make sure the game runs well for all players, regardless of hardware settings. That said, I know some converters such as Zarathos' Modeller's Toolbox will throw an error when trying to covert a model that is over 40k polys to .mesh.
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  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: What is the limit in polygons for Medieval 2 models using the 4gb patch?

    I would think the tank problem is the elephant in the room

    Several mods have used the skeleton for models of this type, most famous I think is TATW's Balrog and CoW's steam tank. Their presence does make battles crash prone, what exactly the issue is no-one is 100% sure given the number of variables in the mount's set up and it's specialized animations.

    Just in case you find yourself with too many vertices or need to reduce graphic load via LOD models***, then this might come handy.

    *** Zooming out on a large scale battle that only uses one high poly LOD per unit can be like walking into a wall










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