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Thread: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    “Network Propaganda” is an academic work at the crossroads of law, sociology, and media studies. Benkler is a law professor at Harvard and a co-director of the university’s Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society, where Faris and Roberts both conduct research. The book is not a work of media criticism but, rather, of data analysis—a study of millions of online stories, tweets, and Facebook-sharing data points. The authors’ conclusion is that “something very different was happening in right-wing media than in centrist, center-left and left-wing media.” Accordingly, they wrote the book “to shine a light on the right-wing media ecosystem itself as the primary culprit in sowing confusion and distrust in the broader American ecosystem.”
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...-media-in-2016

    The study is available for free from the Oxford University Press (just click the 'open access' link on the right above the price). It has provided some fascinating (and likely controversial) insights, but backed these up with concrete evidence - something which we have not really had much of. From what I understand, it posits that the right-wing media ecosystem differs drastically from the rest of the mainstream media, in that it reinforces bias, rather than enforcing truth, "as a central feature of its normal operation", through the use of propaganda feedback loops, which intentionally "reinforce partisan statements, irrespective of their truth, and to punish actors— be they media outlets or politicians and pundits— who insist on speaking truths that are inconsistent with partisan frames and narratives dominant within the ecosystem". It states: "The consistent pattern that emerges from our data is that, both during the highly divisive election campaign and even more so during the first year of the Trump presidency, there is no left-right division, but rather a division between the right and the rest of the media ecosystem... one in which false narratives that reinforce partisan identity not only flourish but crowd out true narratives even when these are presented by leading insiders, and the other in which false narratives are tested, confronted, and contained by diverse outlets and actors operating in a truth-oriented norms dynamic." In such an environment, "subject to the dynamics of propaganda feedback loops, politicians are more or less immune to fact checking because their core audiences treat the professional fact- checking process as itself partisan."

    If all this is indeed true (and I will gladly hear arguments and evidence to the contrary), it paints a damning picture of the right-wing media ecosystem. As the below excerpt states, "having a segment of the population that is systematically disengaged from objective journalism and the ability to tell truth from partisan fiction is dangerous to any country." A population that quite literally lives in alternative realities cannot cooperate. Do you consider the study to be an accurate assessment of the situation? Is there a problem with the right-wing media ecosystem and if so, what should be done about it?

    A detailed summary excerpt:

    Our own contribution to debates about the 2016 election was to shine a light on the right- wing media ecosystem itself as the primary culprit in sowing confusion and distrust in the broader American media ecosystem. In the first two parts of this book we continue that work by documenting how the right- wing media ecosystem differs categorically from the rest of the media environment and how much more susceptible it has been to disinformation, lies, and half- truths. In short, we find that the influence in the right- wing media ecosystem, whether judged by hyperlinks, Twitter sharing, or Facebook sharing, is both highly skewed to the far right and highly insulated from other segments of the network, from center- right (which is nearly nonexistent) through the far left. We did not come to this work looking for a partisan- skewed explanation. As we began to analyze the millions of online stories, tweets, and Facebook sharing data points, the pattern that emerged was clear. Our own earlier work, which analyzed specific campaigns around intellectual property law and found that right and left online media collaborated, made us skeptical of our initial observations, but these proved highly resilient to a wide range of specifications and robustness checks. Something very different was happening in right- wing media than in centrist, center- left, and left- wing media.

    We will make the argument throughout this book that the behavior of the right- wing media ecosystem represents a radicalization of roughly a third of the American media system. We use the term “radicalization” advisedly in two senses. First, to speak of “polarization” is to assume symmetry. No fact emerges more clearly from our analysis of how four million political stories were linked, tweeted, and shared over a three- year period than that there is no symmetry in the architecture and dynamics of communications within the right- wing media ecosystem and outside of it. Second, throughout this period we have observed repeated public humiliation and vicious disinformation campaigns mounted by the leading sites in this sphere against individuals who were the core pillars of Republican identity a mere decade earlier. At the beginning of this period, Jeb Bush, the son and brother of the two most recent Republican presidents, was besmirched as having “close Nazi ties” on Infowars. By November 2017 life- long Republicans who had been appointed to leading law enforcement positions by President George W. Bush found themselves under sustained, weeks- long disinformation campaigns aimed to impugn their integrity and undermine their professional independence. When a solidly conservative party is taken over by its most extreme wing in a campaign that includes attacks that are no less vicious when aimed at that conservative party’s mainstream pillars than they are at the opposition party, we think “radicalization” is an objectively appropriate term.

    This radicalization was driven by a group of extreme sites including Breitbart, Infowars, Truthfeed, Zero Hedge, and the Gateway Pundit, none of which claim to follow the norms or processes of professional journalistic objectivity. As we will see time and again, both in our overall analysis of the architecture and in our detailed case studies, even core right- wing sites that do claim to follow journalistic norms, Fox News and the Daily Caller, do not in fact do so, and therefore fail to act as a truth- telling brake on these radical sites. Indeed, repeatedly we found Fox News accrediting and amplifying the excesses of the radical sites. As the case studies in Chapter 5 document, over the course of 2017 Fox News had become the propaganda arm of the White House in all but name. This pattern is not mirrored on the left wing. First, while we do find fringe sites on the left that mirror the radical sites, these simply do not have the kind of visibility and prominence on the left as they do on the right. Second, the most visible sites on the left, like Huffington Post, are at their worst mirrors of Fox News, not of the Gateway Pundit or Zero Hedge. And third, all these sites on the left are tightly integrated with traditional mainstream media sites like the New York Times and the Washington Post, and most, though not all, of these sites operate either directly under long- standing journalistic norms or are indirectly sensitive to criticism based on reporting that adheres to such norms. As we show in Chapter 3, there is ample supply of and demand for false hyperpartisan narratives on the left. The difference is that the audience and hyperpartisan commercial clickbait fabricators oriented toward the left form part of a single media ecosystem with center, center- left, and left- wing sites that are committed to journalistic truth- seeking norms. Those norm- constrained sites, both mainstream and net- native, serve as a consistent check on dissemination and validation of the most extreme stories when they do emerge on the left, and have no parallels in the levels of visibility or trust that can perform the same function on the right.

    We do not expect our findings to persuade anyone who is already committed to the right- wing media ecosystem. The maps we draw in Chapter 2 could be interpreted differently. They could be viewed as a media system overwhelmed by liberal bias and opposed only by a tightly- clustered set of right- wing sites courageously telling the truth in the teeth of what Sean Hannity calls the “corrupt, lying media,” rather than our interpretation of a radicalized right set apart from a media system anchored in century- old norms of professional journalism. We take up this issue in Chapter 3 where we compare left and right news sites for their patterns of reporting and correction and where we describe our explicit efforts to find conspiracy theories that made it out of the margins of the left to the center of mainstream media. We dedicate Chapter 6 to exploring the modes of failure of mainstream media in their election coverage, and examine the recipients of the Trump Fake News Awards and how they responded to having made the significant errors that won them that honor. We think that fundamentally, anyone who insists on claiming that we cannot draw conclusions about which side is biased, and which side gravitates more closely to the truth, must explain how the media sources most trusted by consistently conservative survey respondents— Fox News, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck— are the equivalent of the sites that occupy the same positions among consistently liberal respondents: NPR, PBS, the BBC, and the New York Times.

    The central role of the radicalized right in creating the current crisis of disinformation and misinformation creates a significant challenge for policy recommendations and is not easy to reconcile with democratic theory. It seems too partisan a perspective to convert into a general, nonpartisan policy recommendation or neutral argument about what democracy requires. And yet, we believe that there is a core set of concerns that transcend party affiliation and should appeal across party lines. First, having a segment of the population that is systematically disengaged from objective journalism and the ability to tell truth from partisan fiction is dangerous to any country. It creates fertile ground for propaganda. Second, it makes actual governance difficult. Other than their major success with tax reform, Republicans found it difficult to govern during the first year of the Trump presidency, despite holding majorities in both houses of Congress and the presidency. In large part, this is due to the inability to bridge the gap between the state of the world as many in their base know it and the state of the world as it is. Third, the divorce of a party base from the institutions and norms that provide a reality check on our leaders is a political disaster waiting to happen— see for instance the primary victory of Roy Moore over Lucas Strange and Moore’s subsequent defeat in the general election. However strident and loyal the party base may be, not even a clear majority of Republican voters is exclusively focused on the right- wing media ecosystem. Over time, the incongruence between the reality inside and outside that ecosystem will make it harder for non- base “lean- Republican” voters to swallow candidates that are palatable inside it. Our hope, then, is that perhaps Republicans see in our findings reason enough to look for a change in the dynamic of the media ecosystem that their most loyal supporters inhabit.

    Finding nonpartisan or bipartisan solutions in a society as highly polarized as the United States has become difficult, to say the least. But ignoring the stark partisan asymmetry at the root of our present epistemic crisis will make it impossible to develop solutions that address the actual causes of that crisis. Any argument that depends for its own sense of neutrality and objectivity on drawing empirically false equivalents between Fox News and CNN, much less between top left- wing sites like Mother Jones and Salon and equivalently prominent sites on the right like the Gateway Pundit or Infowars, undermines clear thinking on the problem at hand.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    he consistent pattern that emerges from our data is that, both during the highly divisive election campaign and even more so during the first year of the Trump presidency, there is no left-right division, but rather a division between the right and the rest of the media ecosystem... one in which false narratives that reinforce partisan identity not only flourish but crowd out true narratives even when these are presented by leading insiders, and the other in which false narratives are tested, confronted, and contained by diverse outlets and actors operating in a truth-oriented norms dynamic.
    ...So how is it different from the liberal/leftist media? Author is just cherry-picking evidence, where liberal/leftist bias are viewed as center-point of objectivity, hence claim that right-wing media operates in "alternate reality", while literally mirror claim can be made from right-wing perspective in regards of the leftist media.
    subject to the dynamics of propaganda feedback loops, politicians are more or less immune to fact checking because their core audiences treat the professional fact- checking process as itself partisan.
    Again, that applies to both sides.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Something something plank in my eye before the splinter in yours. This OP is tragically lacking in perspective to the point I'm not sure it's worth making the case...

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    ...So how is it different from the liberal/leftist media?
    If you read the study it will explain how it's different. According to their findings and analysis, mainstream media tends to work as a check upon itself to enforce facts, whereas right-wing media tends to work to enforce a narrative. Mainstream media competes on the quality of their accurate reporting, whereas right-wing media on competes on the quality of their identity confirming narratives. The study calls these two different systems Reality-Check Dynamics and the Propaganda Feedback Loop.



    Author is just cherry-picking evidence, where liberal/leftist bias are viewed as center-point of objectivity, hence claim that right-wing media operates in "alternate reality", while literally mirror claim can be made from right-wing perspective in regards of the leftist media.
    I'm assuming you've evaluated the data collected by the study to reach that conclusion? In regards to the right-wing perspective of the leftist media, the study describes an interesting phenomenon:

    Once one wing has established the strategy of partisan bias confirmation, the centrist media with their truth-seeking institutions and reputations suddenly deliver a new benefit to partisans of the opposite pole—as objective external arbiters they can offer institutionalized credibility to reinforce their view that what their opposition is saying is false. Once one partisan media pole is established, the coverage of existing objective media outlets takes on a partisan flavor without any shift in their own focus on objectivity.
    Essentially, any accurate reporting from the 'leftist media' becomes partisan if it refutes any biased narratives propagated by the right-wing.

    Again, that applies to both sides.
    Except it doesn't, according to the study. Fact checkers are not treated as partisan by the majority of the centrist/liberal population. If you want to refute their findings feel free, but at least provide something to support your assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Something something plank in my eye before the splinter in yours. This OP is tragically lacking in perspective to the point I'm not sure it's worth making the case...
    Please Ponti, enlighten us.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    This is fairly long and dry reading Katsumoto. I've been reading it periodically before and after work, but I can't say I'm particularly enthused. Any serious discussion of the document will need a much greater effort from you, unfortunately. As is evident by the last two posts, the "other side" of the debate will simply type out one-liners and paragraphs that do not seriously challenge the academic work, not in any sophisticated manner anyway. It just reminds me of this section from the book in question,

    "If we analyze the words used in association with “deep state” before andafter Election Day 2016, the shift is clear. Figure 5.3 compares an image of thewords most associated with “deep state” from 2012 until Election Day 2016(panel a) and an image of words associated with the term from Election Dayuntil March 2018 (panel b). The images rely on the widely used Word2Vec"

    The sudden explosion of the word deep state after Trump said it... Now suddenly everyone is a ing expert and had/knew of theories/ideas that were there all along. Internet rubbish takes a lot more effort to clean up and disprove than it does to conjure up.

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    For sure, it's a dry read ('tis an academic work after all), but one that seemed important and insightful to warrant its own thread - I find your lack of enthusiasm disturbing! For example, we've all seen what Fox News is like, but this study has actually provided the data to support the assertion that Fox News is practically propaganda. That's not something that's been done before from what I can tell:
    Fox News reasserted its role at the center of the right-wing media ecosystem by becoming the central node of network propaganda on behalf of an embattled president, on the issue that most threatened his legitimacy and possibly his tenure in office. Journalists and academics observing the American media system recognize their own biases, and many are therefore reticent to point the finger at Fox. Here, we use our large data sets and analytic tools as a source of objective validation that what we are seeing is really there, in the content and propagation dynamics of the frames and stories we cover. These data warrant the conclusion that Fox shares little but a few visual trappings with the world of professional journalism at the core of the rest of the U.S. media system. It is, across its online and television properties, America’s leading propaganda outlet.
    Obviously the study could be wrong in this - but like you said, without posts that actually address the substance of the matter, I'm not sure how my effort could help the discussion. I would thoroughly recommend people at least read the first chapter.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Admittingly while having not read the full study yet, I'm a bit curious to see what it has to say about neutrality bias and whether it's more common to media on one side of the political spectrum or is it rather just spread equally given that HH's post is a bit of a clear example of it.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto de Voltaire View Post
    If you read the study it will explain how it's different. According to their findings and analysis, mainstream media tends to work as a check upon itself to enforce facts, whereas right-wing media tends to work to enforce a narrative. Mainstream media competes on the quality of their accurate reporting, whereas right-wing media on competes on the quality of their identity confirming narratives. The study calls these two different systems Reality-Check Dynamics and the Propaganda Feedback Loop.
    Are you seriously claiming that mainstream media doesn't work to enforce the narrative? I mean seriously, this is as far from being objective as it goes.
    I'm assuming you've evaluated the data collected by the study to reach that conclusion? In regards to the right-wing perspective of the leftist media, the study describes an interesting phenomenon:
    Essentially, any accurate reporting from the 'leftist media' becomes partisan if it refutes any biased narratives propagated by the right-wing.
    That doesn't seem to be the case. Most mainstream media operates within strong partisan bias. It is owned by partisan groups, and participates in partisan activity. Mainstream media is partisan. To say the opposite is to deny reality.
    Except it doesn't, according to the study. Fact checkers are not treated as partisan by the majority of the centrist/liberal population. If you want to refute their findings feel free, but at least provide something to support your assertion.
    Except that study itself is based on partisan bias, where claims made by mainstream media are referred to as facts, while right-wing media is "narrative". Article fails at remaining objective or refraining from partisanship.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    I'm not really claiming anything, I'm describing the study's findings, which suggest that the right-wing media is far more interested in enforcing a narrative than providing factual reporting. I don't think objective means what you think it means - everything you've said is your subjective opinion, most of which is disputed by the study's data. If you don't think their findings are correct feel free to explain how and provide evidence to support your position. Dismissing the study outright as partisan is lazy.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Its not lazy if the study literally ignores the elephant in the room, which is the fact that mainstream media is as partisan as it gets. Of course one will claim lack of bias if such bias correspond to his own, which is primarily the case with this study.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    It is lazy. You haven't demonstrated how you have reached your conclusions.
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto de Voltaire View Post
    It is lazy. You haven't demonstrated how you have reached your conclusions.
    I've reached my conclusion that mainstream media is partisan because it is owned in whole or partially by partisan groups and it actively taking sides in partisan issues, depending on the nature of partisan bias and majority of it is owned by a handful of large corporations which obviously have political interests. I.e. CNN/MCNBC or pretty much any mainstream outlet during 2016 election. Seriously, arguing that mainstream media is focusing on accurate reporting is simply being out of touch with reality.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    I am pretty sure this is the same reasoning as anti-vaxxers: "All networked doctors can't be trusted because they are owned by big pharma, so of course they cover up the fact that vaccines cause autism!"

    You are also insinuating that a large number of organizations, that are not connected to one another financially, are all working together on the same partisan narrative. That wouldn't make much sense. Why would Reuters just follow along with what MSNBC says, for example? Or the AP? Hell, even the BBC is a very different organization to MSNBC and would have different goals; your list of "mainstream media" is far too big to make conspiracy a valid accusation.
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I am pretty sure this is the same reasoning as anti-vaxxers: "All networked doctors can't be trusted because they are owned by big pharma, so of course they cover up the fact that vaccines cause autism!"

    You are also insinuating that a large number of organizations, that are not connected to one another financially, are all working together on the same partisan narrative. That wouldn't make much sense. Why would Reuters just follow along with what MSNBC says, for example? Or the AP? Hell, even the BBC is a very different organization to MSNBC and would have different goals; your list of "mainstream media" is far too big to make conspiracy a valid accusation.
    Not connected financially, huh?
    I didn't say they have same narrative either. Seems like you didn't really bother to read my post before you jumped to defend the good intentions of corporate oligopolies.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Did you not read the examples I gave? If the AP and Reuters are counted as mainstream media, which I am pretty sure you do, they are not financially connected. If you are dismissing those sources, your problem is clearly not with partisanship, it is with the content of the stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I didn't say they have same narrative either. Seems like you didn't really bother to read my post before you jumped to defend the good intentions of corporate oligopolies.
    I never claimed corporations had good intentions. In fact, I know what their intentions are: to make money. I am quite unhappy with the consolidation of media companies of recent decades (something that Republicans have historically been in favor of) because that has facilitated the rise of the 24 hour news cycle. It sucks, it isn't good, but I at least have the soundness of mind to know the difference between a sensationalist 24 hour news cycle and Infowars. You believe in their insane, international pedophilia sex trafficking theory for sake.


    But as Kats has been saying, let's not get too off track. Your rejection of the study in the OP is "I am using my own judgement to identify the authors as partisan liars", which is lazy as can be. Why the heck should any of us trust your judgement over the authors of the article?
    Last edited by The spartan; October 20, 2018 at 05:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    There’s propaganda to be found left right up and down in what we call mainstream media. We can agree that there is a difference of degree between them.

    This is part of the reason why Independent media is important. These days anyone with a laptop and wifi can set up their own news or commentary service. No matter their individual bias or interests.

    Comcast owns MSNBC news and Sky News and in turn Fox news I would assume, they used to own HBO, Warner Bros too I think. Reuters is owned by the Blackstone corporation as of a deal this month actually
    Last edited by Aexodus; October 20, 2018 at 06:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    There’s propaganda to be found left right up and down in what we call mainstream media. We can agree that there is a difference of degree between them.
    According to the study's findings it's far more prevalent on the right. Of course there are outlets on the left that are similar, but the study does make clear that there is 'no left-right divide' - the degree to which the right-wing media ecosystem produces 'propaganda' far outweighs the left's.

    This is part of the reason why Independent media is important. These days anyone with a laptop and wifi can set up their own news or commentary service. No matter their individual bias or interests.
    Sure, if they actually follow professional journalistic standards. Trouble is many of them don't, which means we end up with lots of 'independent news organisations' spreading disinformation/misinformation, either intentionally or through ineptitude.

    Comcast owns MSNBC news and Sky News and in turn Fox news I would assume, they used to own HBO, Warner Bros too I think. Reuters is owned by the Blackstone corporation as of a deal this month actually
    It's not a great situation but a company owning a news organisation doesn't mean its editorial independence is automatically compromised if there's no evidence it's somehow pandering to that company's agenda. Fortunately for us the study is based on the analysis of millions of data rather than speculation on whether a board is exerting control over its news media.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Did you not read the examples I gave? If the AP and Reuters are counted as mainstream media, which I am pretty sure you do, they are not financially connected. If you are dismissing those sources, your problem is clearly not with partisanship, it is with the content of the stories.
    And what about the rest of the 90% of American mass media?
    I never claimed corporations had good intentions. In fact, I know what their intentions are: to make money. I am quite unhappy with the consolidation of media companies of recent decades (something that Republicans have historically been in favor of) because that has facilitated the rise of the 24 hour news cycle. It sucks, it isn't good, but I at least have the soundness of mind to know the difference between a sensationalist 24 hour news cycle and Infowars. You believe in their insane, international pedophilia sex trafficking theory for sake.


    But as Kats has been saying, let's not get too off track. Your rejection of the study in the OP is "I am using my own judgement to identify the authors as partisan liars", which is lazy as can be. Why the heck should any of us trust your judgement over the authors of the article?
    No. I was pretty clear when I said that majority of mainstream media is very partisan. I get that you think that mainstream media that reflects your beliefs is not partisan and is unbiased, but any look form more neutral perspective will say otherwise.

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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Sure, if they actually follow professional journalistic standards. Trouble is many of them don't, which means we end up with lots of 'independent news organisations' spreading disinformation/misinformation, either intentionally or through ineptitude.
    If you expect indie news groups to be impartial, I don’t think that’s the correct mindset. I know, that The Young Turks is left wing, and I know that Breitbart is right wing. There’s such a low barrier to entry that it almost doesn’t matter how biased an individual in a large sea is.

    By contrast, if a given number of news corps get into the mainstream of news, there’s a certain amount of power they have that independent doesn’t. They collectively lock that market down. Or at least they used to. There is an expectation to be fair in the coverage, so when they don’t do that, people lose complete trust in Fox, in CNN, in MSNBC.

    Sure Fox is a pile of crap half the time, but past a certain degree, most people don’t care just how biased a news source is, they just care that it is in the first place. So that’s why I think the degree of bias and propaganda is less important than the de facto presence of it. Just look at the people chanting ‘CNN sucks’ at Trump rallies. When CNN accurately call out Republicans, people don’t believe it (I’m guilty of this at times), and when Fox accurately calls out Dems, people don’t believe it.

    Corporate media is seen as more of a homogeneous group by most people, which is why when there’s one bad apple it spoils the rest for them.
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    Default Re: Network Propaganda and the Radicalization of the Right-Wing Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    And what about the rest of the 90% of American mass media?
    90% of mass media? I don't think you get how media works in the US; many of the big corporations are citing stories BY the AP. When you sling around your blanket accusations of MSM lies and propaganda, you are also accusing the AP and Reuters even when they don't match your accusations. Again, it isn't the partisanship you have a problem with, you love it when it is partisan for things you like, it is with the content of the stories telling you something you don't like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No. I was pretty clear when I said that majority of mainstream media is very partisan. I get that you think that mainstream media that reflects your beliefs is not partisan and is unbiased, but any look form more neutral perspective will say otherwise.
    You don't actually know what my beliefs are, so that is a flat out lie. I also believe CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and many others are indeed biased, but you still don't seem to grasp how that is different than making up lies (you know, like Infowars does). And whose neutral perspective are you using? Your own? Give me a break. Kats has posted an academic study that has actually put time and effort into analyzing this junk and you rejected because you don't like it's conclusion (I don't think you ever read anything beyond the OP); you wouldn't know a neutral perspective if it snuck up and bit you in the ass.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

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