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Thread: Another parade for massmigration

  1. #221

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It is illegal and there are legal channels out there, so if you are going the illegal wayl, there is usually a good reason to keep you on the other side of the border. As simple as that.

    What are you talking about. Plenty of people immigrate into US legally. What is your point.
    Tell me about these "legal ways" that people can use to enter the U.S. This must be my 4th or 5th time asking you to be specific. You keep claiming that these illegals don't have to be illegal and can just do things legally. So tell me, how should they do it?

    I totally forgot that drug cartels never get into US.
    Building a wall wouldn't stop them, nor does criminalizing illegal immigration have much to do with drug cartels. There is some overlap sure, but most of the trafficking doesn't involve either illegal immigrants or running unregulated stretches of the land border.

    Yes and it will save taxpayer money by preventing people immigrating illegally.
    How?

    How is it convoluted? Because they just don't let in anyone who wants to get in like the moron that we have as PM up here?
    Are you claiming that Canada is suffering from massive illegal immigration? Do tell.

    You might as well get started on that, given how Jihadi Justin was quite happy about letting literal ISIS members in.
    You should start a separate thread about this if you want to talk about Canada's treatment of returning ISIS fighters.

  2. #222

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Tell me about these "legal ways" that people can use to enter the U.S. This must be my 4th or 5th time asking you to be specific. You keep claiming that these illegals don't have to be illegal and can just do things legally. So tell me, how should they do it?
    People immigrate into US legally all the time. There are members of this forum who did.
    Building a wall wouldn't stop them, nor does criminalizing illegal immigration have much to do with drug cartels. There is some overlap sure, but most of the trafficking doesn't involve either illegal immigrants or running unregulated stretches of the land border.
    Why shouldn't illegal immigration not be criminalized?
    How?
    By doing what walls do and create a boundary between the two groups.
    Are you claiming that Canada is suffering from massive illegal immigration? Do tell.
    No, I said Trump is handling immigration issues better for his taxpayer then Turd does for his.



    You should start a separate thread about this if you want to talk about Canada's treatment of returning ISIS fighters.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; January 24, 2019 at 11:05 AM.

  3. #223

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    People immigrate into US legally all the time. There are members of this forum who did.
    Had you carefully read the pages involved, you would see that there are obvious gaps in how to legally immigrate into the United States.

    A primer on problems with immigration into U.S.

    Why shouldn't illegal immigration not be criminalized?
    Because there is no victim when a Mexican physically crosses the border.

    By doing what walls do and create a boundary between the two groups.
    And how does that save taxpayers money?

    No, I said Trump is handling immigration issues better for his taxpayer then Turd does for his.
    In what way is he handling it better?

  4. #224
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Because there is no victim when a Mexican physically crosses the border.
    I think you are using a rather broad definition of 'no victim. I cannot accept the idea of illegal entry is a crime with no victims. As an economic transaction alone, every person with improper entry in effect bids down the cost of labor. The person looking for employment will at the margin suffer a cost of reduced compensation for future employment, I would classify that worker as a victim,


    And the law does not make this a felony, so why are we even discussing criminals why the laws broken are resolved mainly as misdemeanors? Most are resolved by deportation or with a modest civil fine. For further reading:

    Is it a Crime to Enter The U.S. Illegally? | AllLaw



    8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien | U.S. Code | US Law | LII ...


  5. #225

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Had you carefully read the pages involved, you would see that there are obvious gaps in how to legally immigrate into the United States.

    A primer on problems with immigration into U.S.
    It is a list of problems from third world immigrants, but I don't see why is this a problem for US taxpayer.
    Because there is no victim when a Mexican physically crosses the border.
    So anybody should be able to cross borders at whim? Like I said, a notion that organized crime would love.
    And how does that save taxpayers money?
    Preventing people from tresppassing illegally and law enforcement expenses on catching them, etc.
    In what way is he handling it better?
    We don't hear of ISIS fighters returning to US.

  6. #226

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It is a list of problems from third world immigrants, but I don't see why is this a problem for US taxpayer.
    I don't see why I, as a US taxpayer, should fund foolish immigration policy, which at the end of the day, shouldn't be a problem.

    So anybody should be able to cross borders at whim? Like I said, a notion that organized crime would love.
    Organized crime can already cross borders at whim. Decriminalizing illegal immigration wouldn't change that equation.

    Preventing people from tresppassing illegally and law enforcement expenses on catching them, etc.
    Building the wall itself costs money. So does maintaining it, staffing it, and patrolling it. It doesn't just stay there statically. Moreover, we can prevent illegal trespass and law enforcement expenses by simply decriminalizing illegal immigration.

    We don't hear of ISIS fighters returning to US.
    Make a thread about it. Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I think you are using a rather broad definition of 'no victim. I cannot accept the idea of illegal entry is a crime with no victims. As an economic transaction alone, every person with improper entry in effect bids down the cost of labor. The person looking for employment will at the margin suffer a cost of reduced compensation for future employment, I would classify that worker as a victim,
    Economics. Effects are hard to calculate and negligible as far as we can tell. Which effects do you want to talk about? Short-term? Long-term? Labor markets? Impact on consumer demand?


    And the law does not make this a felony, so why are we even discussing criminals why the laws broken are resolved mainly as misdemeanors? Most are resolved by deportation or with a modest civil fine. For further reading:

    Is it a Crime to Enter The U.S. Illegally? | AllLaw



    8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien | U.S. Code | US Law | LII ...
    Because it is criminalized. You are detained and deported. Deportation itself is not necessarily a harsh punishment depending on where you're from. If I am an illegal immigrant from Canada who simply didn't file their visa on-time, it's not a big deal. But if I am running from a criminal background or neighborhood? If I lived in US for years and now my life is uprooted? If I have a family that's dependent on the conditions I can provide in this country? It's absolutely one of the harshest punishments the state can levy on me.

    Not to mention the wide coverage of bad conditions during detention and separation of families. We have to talk about real consequences for these people, not just legal code.

  7. #227
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Legal immigrants who go through the system, sometimes waiting years are victims.

    In addition, illegal immigration being illegal is in itself a deterrent. If you remove this deterrent you would see a lot more people attempting to cross the border. This makes the brain and capital drain out of central america even worse, which doesn’t help those countries at all.

    In addition having a large population of unauthorised non-Americans just isn’t ideal.

    If I have a family that's dependent on the conditions I can provide in this country? It's absolutely one of the harshest punishments the state can levy on me.
    With respect, that’s the fault of the person who chose not to enter through a port of entry or obtain residence properly with a dependent family. The law doesn’t discriminate.
    Last edited by Aexodus; February 01, 2019 at 11:19 AM.
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  8. #228

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Legal immigrants who go through the system, sometimes waiting years are victims.
    How does undocumented immigration affect legal immigration?

    In addition, illegal immigration being illegal is in itself a deterrent. If you remove this deterrent you would see a lot more people attempting to cross the border. This makes the brain and capital drain out of central america even worse, which doesn’t help those countries at all.
    This has proven false for many years now. The countries in central america are dependent on remittances sent by the workers in US. They provide a valuable source of foreign exchange reserves.

    In addition having a large population of unauthorised non-Americans just isn’t ideal.
    So authorize them.

    With respect, that’s the fault of the person who chose not to enter through a port of entry or obtain residence properly with a dependent family. The law doesn’t discriminate.
    You're missing the point. What's the profit of going through a length and expensive process of finding, detaining, and processing an undocumented immigrant. In addition to causing mental pain and suffering? You can simply make them documented and let them live their lives. Majority of undocumented immigrants do not hurt or kill anyone.

  9. #229
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    How does undocumented immigration affect legal immigration?



    This has proven false for many years now. The countries in central america are dependent on remittances sent by the workers in US. They provide a valuable source of foreign exchange reserves.



    So authorize them.



    You're missing the point. What's the profit of going through a length and expensive process of finding, detaining, and processing an undocumented immigrant. In addition to causing mental pain and suffering? You can simply make them documented and let them live their lives. Majority of undocumented immigrants do not hurt or kill anyone.
    I don t know if you are intentionally responding without getting the points or you are missing the points.

    1 - all immigration is related and like any economic transaction, if you make something easier or cheaper to acquire you get more. If you lower the punishment for illegal immigration, you will on the margin have some who today would take the legal route, choose to take the illegal route.

    2 - remittances from legal immigrants in the USA are not really an issue here. I believe that the illegal immigrants are not doing the remittances unless they are going through straw-men. However, there is a concern about even the legal immigrants and the remittances:

    After the terrorist attacks of September 11th, many questioned the role of remittances in the funding of terrorist groups abroad. A study done in 2013 aimed to discover just that. The study, published by Taylor & Francis, found that there was indeed a positive correlation between international remittances received by a country, and the level of domestic terrorism present.[17] In 2016 Presidential candidate Donald Trump ran on a campaign promise of building a wall along the U.S. Mexico border. In November 2016 U.S.-Mexico remittances spiked for a short period, likely because many immigrants were unsure how the U.S.-Mexico relations might be affected by the incoming President Trump. Illegal immigration along the Mexican border also surged with over 47,214 being apprehended that very month.[18] Trump proposed a tax on remittances to Latin America and the Caribbean to pay for the border wall.[19]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remitt..._United_States

    3 - Making anybody a documented immigrant after the fact is a problem (see my first point) but it is also a political nonstarter for both the Republican Party and most of the Democratic Party. Even the 'dreamers' are a real problem to resolve and that should be easier than the 20 year old slipping past immigration by using a Visa and simply not returning on time. To be honest the visa expired is the biggest obstacle to the 'dreamer' resolution. They came in legally as small children with family and the adults overstayed and thus the children s well overstayed. The easy casess have been resolved. I do not have the statistics, but laws are not about the numbers but how individuals should be treated when at variance with the laws. https://citizenpath.com/faq/filing-i...visa-overstay/

  10. #230

    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I don't see why I, as a US taxpayer, should fund foolish immigration policy, which at the end of the day, shouldn't be a problem.
    Not paying for welfare isn't really a bad thing for taxpayer.
    Organized crime can already cross borders at whim. Decriminalizing illegal immigration wouldn't change that equation.
    Huh? Its like saying decriminalizing drunk driving won't change rate of car accidents.
    Building the wall itself costs money. So does maintaining it, staffing it, and patrolling it. It doesn't just stay there statically. Moreover, we can prevent illegal trespass and law enforcement expenses by simply decriminalizing illegal immigration.
    Why should it be decriminalized? Consequences would be far more expensive then the wall itself.

    Make a thread about it. Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.
    Point is that Trump is handling immigration issues much better then then our retard does.

  11. #231
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Another parade for massmigration

    Let's pick up this older thread again.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...historic-lows/

    In 2014 we had a low on apprehensions on the southern border. Amazing! The recession caused a decrease on illegal crossings. Naturally that would imply that most were coming and crossing illegally for economic reasons. Not all, but most.

    Now today we have a change of circumstances. The economy in the USA is good and the illegal apprehensions are now at record levels. About 100,000 per month! https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

    So now CCN is 'reporting' https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/10/polit...nts/index.html.

    The Trump administration is considering deporting migrant families with court-ordered removals, a move that senior Department of Homeland Security officials have resisted in the past, multiple officials tell CNN.

    The idea, described as a way to "send a message" to smugglers, is "under serious consideration," according to a senior administration official. Another source said there are ongoing discussions within the department. A separate source tells CNN no immediate action is being taken.
    The Department of Homeland Security, suffering from a lack of resources, is unable to deport all those who are ordered to be removed from the country and has said it focuses on the people it deems the most dangerous.
    However, that could change as a massive influx of migrant families make their way into the country illegally over the southern border.
    Read the full article at the link. I say reporting, but no actual statements by the administration support this report. That does not mean this report is not accurate, but it can mean staff not happy with a proposal are feeding their misgivings to reporters. This is not yet policy and may not become policy. I for one would like the court ordered deportations to all have priority. The Obama era policy of prioritizing felons was simply a means to an end to keep more within the country despite the court ordered deportations. I suspect the CNN report is making a disgruntled staffer and using the complaint for CNN's own war against Trump and the administration.

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