Another parade for massmigration

[The spartan]

Sure we can do without, but you simply can't remove that many current workers and expect the market to be stable. I am sure (in fact I know at least in Florida, where I did field work) many in the agriculture industry get anxious over talks of removing immigrant workers. Not that the American public particularly cares, but I think they would care when the price of their produce doubles.

[Aexodus]

Who said anything about removing them?

[The spartan]

Who said anything about removing them?

A lot of Americans. It is also implied by harsher immigration legislation, a la Alabama.

[Aexodus]

Thing is if you give citizenship then that gives people who are considering illegally entering encouragement. There has to be some other option. That said quite often all illegal immigrants, ones who’ve been there years and those who’ve been there a couple days are lumped in as ‘undocumented’ which frankly is just ridiculous. If I rob a bank it’s not an undocumented withdrawal, if I break into America it’s not undocumented immigration.

[Love Mountain]

Thing is if you give citizenship then that gives people who are considering illegally entering encouragement. There has to be some other option.

And what's wrong with that?

[Aexodus]

Problem with that is more illegal immigration swamping border control. There are simply too many people to process.

[Love Mountain]

Problem with that is more illegal immigration swamping border control. There are simply too many people to process.

So stop criminalizing them and hire more people to process/help folks. It's not a problem without a solution.

[The spartan]

Thing is if you give citizenship then that gives people who are considering illegally entering encouragement. There has to be some other option. That said quite often all illegal immigrants, ones who’ve been there years and those who’ve been there a couple days are lumped in as ‘undocumented’ which frankly is just ridiculous. If I rob a bank it’s not an undocumented withdrawal, if I break into America it’s not undocumented immigration.

People may think that, but illegal immigration isn't a new issue in the US. And from what I understand, illegal immigration didn't just increase and increase throughout the 2000s, it eventually reached a net neutral place and leveled off. There are some other facts and charts here, but the idea that illegals keep coming here to take over the country is kinda silly.

[NorseThing]

Yousay this is not a new issue, but you then post 'facts' about only the recent issue. Live a bit longer and you will know that a timeline that goes back only 30 years is not very long.

In all fairness, this is not a new issue. What is new is this is mainly an immigration issue regarding potentially failed (well actually failed) economies in Central America. Some of our own TWC members are affected in those countries, by the way. My sympathy goes out to all. The wall Trump proposes is really only stopping the effect on the USA. The problem of failed economies is not going to be fixed with the wall. Heck, we in the USA cannot seem to even fix our own problems regarding the hurricane that leveled Puerto Rico.

[The spartan]

Well yes, we do have a long and sordid history of immigration in the US, but when we are talking about Latin America, Mexico, and the southern boarder, we are usually referring to the adoption of NAFTA and large shift in markets that followed it. So, you could go back before the 90s if you want, but it as decent starting place as any. If you want to bring up stuff further back, you are more than welcome to.

[Heathen Hammer]

So stop criminalizing them and hire more people to process/help folks. It's not a problem without a solution.

Because legal channels for immigration already exist and Americans don't owe these people anything?

[The spartan]

That's right, we leave those in need on the doorstep, like a good Christian nation. It is like when that crippled guy went to Jesus and asked to be healed and Jesus told him: "I don't owe you anything".

You know what the quote on the bronze plaque under the Statue of Liberty says?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[Heathen Hammer]

USA is a secular nation. Illegal immigrants are criminals. There are legal channels for these people to immigrate, they are either lazy or have shady/criminal background hence their ridiculous demands to be allowed to move in just because.

[Aexodus]

“This argument wouldn’t work on me because I’m not a Christian, but if I use it on you you might do what I want”

[Ludicus]

USA is a secular nation

Well, I'm not completely sure, so help me God.

Illegal immigrants are criminals.

No, they are illegal immigrants.

You know what the quote on the bronze plaque under the Statue of Liberty says?

I agree with you, but some would say that it only applies to the Jews. In doubt, ask sumskilz.

[The spartan]

“This argument wouldn’t work on me because I’m not a Christian, but if I use it on you you might do what I want”

How do you know I am not Christian? I was certainly raised Christian. However, that jab was directed at many in the US who claim to be Christian but don't seem to practice the teachings of Christ. I see you also skipped over the poem inscribed at the base of one of the most important of our national icons, Mr. National Identity.

USA is a secular nation. Illegal immigrants are criminals. There are legal channels for these people to immigrate, they are either lazy or have shady/criminal background hence their ridiculous demands to be allowed to move in just because.

I have a strong sense that you are not very familiar with the US nor particularly like it very much.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Hmm, from the polls I've looked at there seems to be:

1. A movement to legitimize/grant amnesty to DACA immigrants
2. A reduction in legal immigration by half
3. A reduction of illegal immigration by 100%
4. Majority sentiment that a border wall will be ineffective

What I conclude from this is that the majority of Americans want to reduce most immigration, but do not think a border wall will be effective. I happen to disagree with that, but this is what the polls show.

[Vanoi]

http://www.people-press.org/2018/06/...-into-the-u-s/

It's from June 2018 but I think it's still useful. Only 24% of Americans want legal immigration decreased.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Nope, trend goes to decreased levels. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

[Love Mountain]

Nope, trend goes to decreased levels. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

The percentage of people who think the current level of immigration is acceptable relatively stable at 30-40% between the year 2000-2018. This is despite the fact that immigration levels and border crossings fluctuated heavily throughout this time period as is visible by the following two images.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This heavily hints that the 40% or so of people who want immigration levels to stay the same, don't actually give a about how many immigrants they are. On the other hand, the number of people who want to decrease the current levels of immigration dropped heavily from a high of 58% in 2000, to 29% in 2018. The number of people who want to increase immigration has very steadily and slowly increased from 10% in 2000 to 28% in 2018. In short, there are just as many people, proportionally, who want to increase immigration as there are who want to decrease it. And a significantly larger portion of people want to "keep it at present levels".