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Thread: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

  1. #1
    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-marriage-cake
    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

    https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-37406743.html
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-no...eland-45789759

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    This week, the supreme court ruled in favour of Asher's Bakery in Belfast that refused to make a cake featuring a gay pressure group slogan. They had previously been found guilty if discrimination, with the reasoning:

    The defendants are not a religious organisation. They conduct a business for profit. As much as I acknowledge their religious beliefs, this is a business to provide service to all. The law says they must do that.
    They also lost their later appeal. However, the supreme court made a unanimous decision that they were not obliged to make the cake.

    The five justices on the supreme court – Lady Hale, Lord Mance, Lord Kerr, Lord Hodge and Lady Black – found the bakery did not refuse to fulfil Lee’s order because of his sexual orientation and therefore there was no discrimination on those grounds. The business relationship between Lee and Ashers did not involve people being refused jobs or services because of their religious faith, the judges added.

    “It is deeply humiliating, and an affront to human dignity, to deny someone a service because of that person’s race, gender, disability, sexual orientation or any of the other protected personal characteristics,” Hale said in the judgment.


    “But that is not what happened in this case and it does the project of equal treatment no favours to seek to extend it beyond its proper scope.”
    In my opinion, the £250,000 spent by the equality commission is a huge waste of public money on a case thrown out by the supreme court like this. They have an agenda that is contrary to free expression and of conscience, which could lead to doctors not being permitted freedom of conscience in certain operations.

    I find it slightly amusing that Mr Lee, the man who ordered the cake, says he felt like a second class citizen, when he is the one getting public money, and the defendants aren’t.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  2. #2

    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    A private business is free to offer or refuse thier business as and how they wish. Shame it took the supreme court to decide that.

    I don't think Mr Lee realised the consequences to the gay rights movement had he actualy won.

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    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Next, it would be “gay bakery sued for discrimination after Christian/Muslim/Jew asked to for a cake urging opposition to gay marriage”
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  4. #4

    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    A private business is free to offer or refuse thier business as and how they wish. Shame it took the supreme court to decide that.

    I don't think Mr Lee realised the consequences to the gay rights movement had he actualy won.
    Not really, the refusal of the cake because of the gayness of the customer is unlawful. The judgment made it clear that it was the message, not the sexuality of customer that was problematic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post

    They have an agenda that is contrary to free expression and of conscience.
    They don't have an 'agenda', they have a commission, which is published for all to see on their webiste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Next, it would be “gay bakery sued for discrimination after Christian/Muslim/Jew asked to for a cake urging opposition to gay marriage”
    Come on, this is trolling, you know damned well that wont happen now.
    Last edited by mongrel; October 13, 2018 at 11:58 PM.
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Alhamdulillah good news OP. Although the years of hell these God fearing folk were put through is a damning indictment of our times.

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    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post


    Come on, this is trolling, you know damned well that wont happen now.
    You're right. Christians/Muslims/Jews are not so bigoted and spiteful as to force somebody to on his values just to validate their life choice.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    I'm not sure those wanting to force them make the wedding cake have thought it through.
    Why not choose someone who actually supports your choice? Why insisting on a supplier who doesn't want the contract and a cake that is quite likely soaked in spit and worse?

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    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    I’ve always thought with this kind of thing, compulsion of this kind is the exact opposite of what will persuade people to accept you and your ideas or lifestyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    I can see why the guy buying the cake thought he was being discriminated against, probably has been before, but this was a political decision and if the bakery doesn't like the message they don't have to bake it.

    As I understand it, if it was for a plain white wedding cake for a gay marriage then they would have to make it. You can't discriminate in your offer of services against people on the basis of a protected attribute, but politics is fair game.

    Old mate needs a 3D printer with some icing, he can order a plain cake, print the pic he wants, bung it on and tell everyone "I bought the cake from Ashers!" [wink].
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I’ve always thought with this kind of thing, compulsion of this kind is the exact opposite of what will persuade people to accept you and your ideas or lifestyle.
    There was no compulsion to make the cake , isn't that the point? Didn't the judgment not say the issue has nothing to do with the characteristics of the customers? The customer ordered a cake, not acceptance of his lifestyle .
    Last edited by mongrel; Yesterday at 06:46 PM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    It did indeed
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    I'm not sure those wanting to force them make the wedding cake have thought it through.
    Why not choose someone who actually supports your choice? Why insisting on a supplier who doesn't want the contract and a cake that is quite likely soaked in spit and worse?
    I agree...to a point.

    It happens...Gay couples seek out bakers who they know may throw a fit. All to make a statement. I don't like it.

    BUT...It's far, FAR worse in my opinion for a baker to refuse to do business with someone because of silly and archaic religious beliefs.

    At the end of the day the baker is far more wrong than anything else.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    I agree...to a point.

    It happens...Gay couples seek out bakers who they know may throw a fit. All to make a statement. I don't like it.

    BUT...It's far, FAR worse in my opinion for a baker to refuse to do business with someone because of silly and archaic religious beliefs.

    At the end of the day the baker is far more wrong than anything else.
    The bakers aren't in the wrong, the court said as much.


    What I dislike is a moderator, of all people, insulting the sincere beleifs of TWC's Christian membership by suggesting they are 'silly'.

    The bigger question should be why Northern Ireland bans gay marriage when around 70% of its people would not object to a change in the law.
    Last edited by mongrel; Today at 01:18 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  14. #14

    Default Re: UK supreme court backs Christian bakery that refused to support gay marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    I agree...to a point.

    It happens...Gay couples seek out bakers who they know may throw a fit. All to make a statement. I don't like it.

    BUT...It's far, FAR worse in my opinion for a baker to refuse to do business with someone because of silly and archaic religious beliefs.

    At the end of the day the baker is far more wrong than anything else.
    I find this statement insulting.

    I am a Pagan and my wife is an atheist yet we attended church last week for the local school's harvest festival (my daughter was in the show). Afterwards I shook the vicar's hand and thanked him for opening his church for the event. It's called RESPECT.

    We live in a culture of mixed beliefs and lifestyles and not all are compatible but we make it work by trying not to force beliefs or attitudes on each other. The law protects people from discrimination but faiths also need their own protections.

    A christian business should not be forced to support a gay rights movement anymore than a gay business should be forced to support the catholic church.

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