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Thread: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

  1. #1
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Esteemed fellow Citizens,

    I come before you today to ask your opinion about making the Curia subject to site Moderation. The Curia is the place where those members of the site, which have been recognized for their positive input to TWC, can exercise some special priviliges. So far, so good.

    However, when reading some of the postings in the Curia and observing how people sometimes talk to eachother here, I feel ashamed of how we treat eachother sometimes. That goes so far as to the point that we see postings in here that would not survive regular site moderation in other parts of the forum. I don't think that's a good thing.

    We're supposed to be those who others strife to become like, not necessarily rolemodels in every aspect but at least what would be considered standard. However, sometimes we're behaving way beneath what would be mudpit substandard.

    Also, the Curator is usually more than busy with the day-to-day activities and sometimes even part of the discussion, so he by definition cannot act in those cases. On top of that, he cannot record official moderaional actions.

    I believe that this is no good state. It also sends a terrible message to regular users and is pretty unfair, actually. Therefor I propose to get over this overcome relic and open the Curia to site moderation.

    Section II - The Curia
    Article I. The Curia Forum
    The Curia is a place for all Citizens of the site to discuss and propose changes to the site and this document as well as for holding elections. It consists of the following sections:
    • CVRIA - For non-binding legislative discussion.1
    • Symposium - For general discussion, Citizen debates, and the preservation of Curia and TWC history.16
    • Quaestiones Perpetuae – For Citizenship applications.
    • Prothalamos - For proposing formal resolutions of the Citizenry.2
    • Curia Vote - For all votes on resolutions and elections.
    • The Politia – For the Triumvirate's dealings.


    The Curia is subject to site Moderation. Violations of Forum Rules and of the Terms of Service in this forum are considered to be doubly serious.


    PS: The Curator's role as a local moderator of the Curia who assures the day-to-day activities is not infringed by this proposal, since HEX already can and does moderate the Curia. However, they do so only as a last resort.

    Proposer: Aikanár
    Supporters:
    Last edited by Aikanár; October 11, 2018 at 01:06 PM.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

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  2. #2
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Support, simply because the Curator cannot, as Aik points out correctly, record official moderation actions.
    I do wonder how moderation will handle "off-topic posting" in the Curia and am tediously leaning towards and exception of enforcing on that within the Curia. Leaving that under the discretion of the Curator.

  3. #3
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    I'm leaning towards support too. Aik's proposal seems quite reasonable under the general circumstances.

  4. #4
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by General Brewster View Post
    Support, simply because the Curator cannot, as Aik points out correctly, record official moderation actions.
    I do wonder how moderation will handle "off-topic posting" in the Curia and am tediously leaning towards and exception of enforcing on that within the Curia. Leaving that under the discretion of the Curator.
    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Greek Strategos♔ View Post
    I'm leaning towards support too. Aik's proposal seems quite reasonable under the general circumstances.
    Thanks, Brew and Greek Strategos. With regards to topicality or off-topic postings. That could be dealt with by standard moderational procedures we see in practice for years in other parts of the forum: copy the off-topic tangent to a new thread or to the townhall or if not disrupting the discussion and sort of valuable to the general development of the thread, tolerate a short tangent. That being said, I admit that the Curia surely will be a heavy duty forum to moderate - another reason for opening it to site moderation to be honest.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  5. #5
    Tango12345's Avatar Never mind the manoeuvres...
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    If this were to be passed then topicality would likely be enforced as much as it is in the TD (ie, not).

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    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    ^If that could be implemented policy, it would be great!


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  7. #7
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Umm. You this would make the other proposal we're working on pretty pointless.

  8. #8
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    I could imagine that the Curia needs to be treated similar to the administrative fora where personal references are concerned given we regularly need to discuss people's posting history, achievements, attitude and behaviour. Cracking down on the derogatory personal references would go a long way already, though. Hence I am generally in favour of this.

    @Halie: How so? I thought we agreed that mere ToS abidance was a trivial thing to ask for in terms of citizen behaviour and as such the Ostrakon thing went beyond that.
    Last edited by Iskar; October 11, 2018 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Accidentally spelt favour the colonial way - ugh.
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    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Umm. You this would make the other proposal we're working on pretty pointless.
    I don't think it would. It would simply make citizens liable to the ToS everywhere on the site. Just like every other member too. It does not take away from behavior that is not expected from citizens but gets a pass since it does not break the ToS but is nevertheless not how a citizen should behave. So both are needed and would actually complement eachother very well.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  10. #10
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Support

    ​​
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  11. #11
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    @Halie: How so? I thought we agreed that mere ToS abidance was a trivial thing to ask for in terms of citizen behaviour and as such the Ostrakon thing went beyond that.
    If staff are moderating the curia there's even less need for mediation/ostrakon as the majority of arguments will be intervened by staff before they get to the stage where any curia intervention is initiated.

  12. #12
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    I could imagine that the Curia needs to be treated similar to the administrative fora where personal references are concerned given we regularly need to discuss people's posting history, achievements, attitude and behaviour. Cracking down on the derogatory personal references would go a long way already, though. Hence I am generally in favour of this.

    @Halie: How so? I thought we agreed that mere ToS abidance was a trivial thing to ask for in terms of citizen behaviour and as such the Ostrakon thing went beyond that.
    A fair point with regards to personal references. It would be a question for Tango whether he would be in favour of such an expansion of that rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    If staff are moderating the curia there's even less need for mediation/ostrakon as the majority of arguments will be intervened by staff before they get to the stage where any curia intervention is initiated.
    I don't know, Halie, when topicality would be enforced like in the TD and the personal reference rule was like in the Q&S and with the list of behaviour in mind, that we're developing. I don't think that Ostraka would be superflous and mediation would be needed still, since Moderation would only deal with ToS violations, not what we expect on top of that.
    Last edited by Aikanár; October 11, 2018 at 02:15 PM. Reason: avoiding double post


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  13. #13
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Actually it has already worked that way somehow and not long ago, and nobody has noticed it. During General Brewster's "reign", I've been his Assistant while also being a Global Mod. I had to act as such during a couple of times I think, because GB was temporary unavailable and the situation reqiered a quick action. I've always let GB acted first as he was the Curator. Later, we were even 2 Global Mods working as CA as well when Belthazar Bolton get his blue title
    All in all, this is just to point that if Moderators work in close collaboration with the Curtor, most of you, esteemed Citizens won't even noticed the difference compare to the present days.
    I support (despite the extra work you're giving to us Aik ).
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; October 11, 2018 at 03:14 PM.
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  14. #14
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Actually it has already worked that way somehow and not long ago, and nobody has noticed it. During General Brewster's "reign", I've been his Assistant while also being a Global Mod. I had to act as such during a couple of times I think, because GB was temporary unavailable and the situation reqiered a quick action. I've always let GB acted first as he was the Curator. Later, we were even 2 Global Mods working as CA as well when Belthazar Bolton get his blue title
    All in all, this is just to point that if Moderators work in close collaboration with the Curtor, most of you, esteemed Citizens won't even noticed the difference compare to the present days.
    I support (despite the extra work you're giving to us Aik ).
    Moderators work in close collaboration with the Curtor
    The additional quoted part is something that wouldn't be a bad addition.

  15. #15
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Like: The Curia is subject to site Moderation, who work in close collaboration with the Curator.?


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks, Makrell, Kaiser Leonidas, Iskar, Neadal, Sheridan, Bercor and HigoChumbo, house of Siblesz

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

  16. #16
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Moderators work in close collaboration with the Curtor
    Bloody typos
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  17. #17
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    I don't know, Halie, when topicality would be enforced like in the TD and the personal reference rule was like in the Q&S and with the list of behaviour in mind, that we're developing. I don't think that Ostraka would be superflous and mediation would be needed still, since Moderation would only deal with ToS violations, not what we expect on top of that.
    If the rule of law (in the curia) is policed by the lowest common denominator (the ToS - double points) it will create a sterile environment. Why would I bother challenging a proposal and risk infraction when all I need say is 'oppose' and vote.. How many times do you think I will bother doing that.

    You're going to say, but the ostraka proposal is based on the ToS, which it is, as a bench mark for ostraka. Not for moderating the curia.

    And why bother with an ostrakon, just hit the report button. It's an anonymous referral by another method.

    This probably explains better than I can.

    'In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.'

    Opposed.
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; October 11, 2018 at 06:22 PM.

  18. #18
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikanár View Post
    Like: The Curia is subject to site Moderation, who work in close collaboration with the Curator.?
    That would be perfect imo.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    Opposed.

    In an era where moderators are not even required to be citizens I doubt very highly they can be trusted to moderate the Curia in such a way that is in with keeping of our long held traditional mores. The Curia has always been an area where personal restraint/reputation has always been held somewhat above a strict/constructionist interpretation of the rules for the benefit of the entire site. We are self regulating in this regard as well. Allowing more of an active hand in moderation will do nothing but undermine this and further erode any purpose the Curia serves on this site.

    Even when I served as Chief of Moderation I was hesitant to moderate in the Curia in any way. This is as it should be.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; October 11, 2018 at 06:29 PM.

  20. #20
    General Brewster's Avatar The Flying Dutchman
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Global Moderation Act

    I had not thought about that, I do feel like the guys moderating here should be citizens..

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