Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

  1. #1
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
    Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Usa
    Posts
    7,335

    Default [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Hey Ya'll, I have a proposal and basically I want to establish a citizen bill of rights, this will help us to outline what we mean by higher standards. For the most part we want folks to stick to the TOS when they're not citizens but we want our citizens to take it up a notch in terms of quality. There's a lot of ambiguity in that which makes it difficult to understand exactly what we mean, this subjectivity leads to a vast gulf of what may or may not be considered a referral. The goal of this is two parts, one provide citizens affirmative defenses for actions which are completely acceptable, and two provide some guidance on why something is not acceptable. That's not to say we expect all citizens to always adhere to these ideals but it does give us a point of decision. So far I've been thinking of something like this:

    Spoiler for possible rights
    1. Freedom of Expression and Speech -

    The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of citizens. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law. Recognized abuses of this freedom include but are not limited to:

    Incitement - the deliberate attempt to destroy or abuse the policies of the Curia or to encourage others to do so, citizens should attempt whenever possible to encourage others to follow the rules and to use the processes in place to vet their grievances or resolve their issues.

    False Statements of Fact - While, it's not uncommon to be wrong it is important to distinguish the use of falsities in order to mislead others, citizens should attempt whenever possible to be truthful in their accounts, and citizens should attempt to recognize when they were wrong, recognition.

    Fighting Words and Offensive Speech - That which "tend[s] to incite an immediate breach of the peace" by provoking a fight, so long as it is a "personally abusive [word] which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, is, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke a violent reaction", citizens whenever possible should try to avoid confrontations which each other and instead focus their intentions on the review and selection of ideas, no idea is beyond reproach, conflict which does occur should emphasize action not lack or presence of character.


    2. Appeal of Decisions - The citizenship have the right to appeal decisions brought by any body. Although not every appeal can be binding any citizen can move to have a decision made by moderators, censors, curators, staff etc. appealed to the wider body

    3. Public Transparency of Proceedings - Although many proceedings are kept private for the purpose of protection of privacy, every citizen has the right to archive private proceedings concerning them as public including relevant discussion. Privacy is only to promote the good of the boards, not to obfuscate decisions or their process.

    4. Call for a Vote of No Confidence - Should citizens prove to be dissatisfied with a staff member's behavior or actions they have the right to call for a Vote of No Confidence to effectively remove said staff member from their position and duties. Such a proposal may be brought by anyone but requires a plurality vote in the affirmative of the citizenry to pass.

    5. Propose Policy - Citizens may propose policy or procedural changes. Such a proposal may be brought by anyone but requires a plurality vote in the affirmative of citizenry to pass.

    6. Elected Positions - Citizens possess the right to run for election to staff positions assuming they meet the prerequisites set for those positions.

    7. Patronizing - Citizens may propose members of the board who deserve admission into the citizenry. Such a proposal may be brought by anyone who meets the prerequisites but requires a plurality vote in the affirmative of citizenry to pass.

    8. Self-Identification - Citizens may choose their user title, name and choose how to be identified by the board at large be it as a citizen, civitate, artifex, patrician or their staff position.

    9. Review by Referral - Citizens may choose to review the actions or behaviors of another citizen through referral. Such a proposal may be brought by anyone but requires a vote from the triumvirate to take action.


    The problem I run into is I'm not entirely sure what sort of "rights" our citizens should have. I was wondering what others think?
    Last edited by Elfdude; October 10, 2018 at 11:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
    took an arrow to the knee

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    11,783

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    I don't know about rights, as the implication would be that Citizens have more rights than Plebs, but some sort of Code of Conduct for Citizens could be a good idea to set out a clear baseline for Citizen behaviour.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  3. #3
    Hitai de Bodemloze's Avatar 避世絕俗
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,306
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Well we do already have rights as laid out in the Constitution: the right to appeal, right to have our referrals archived publicly, right to initiate a VoNC, right to a custom user title and stuff. So they are there, scattered about. If you want to enshrine them in a separate document, I'm not entirely adverse to the idea.

  4. #4
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    19,998
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    We don’t have ‘rights.’ We have certain privileges. I doubt GED would sanction a codified bill of rights.

    Sorry, Don’t mean to be curt, on my phone at work..
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; October 09, 2018 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nehekhara
    Posts
    17,384

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    @OP Rights bring with them obligations. Are you 100% you want to go in that direction?
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  6. #6
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,765
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitai de Bodemloze View Post
    Well we do already have rights as laid out in the Constitution: the right to appeal, right to have our referrals archived publicly, right to initiate a VoNC, right to a custom user title and stuff. So they are there, scattered about. If you want to enshrine them in a separate document, I'm not entirely adverse to the idea.
    This. It could clarify the expectations of a citizen, and make it easier to add/take away elements if we wished
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  7. #7
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
    Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Usa
    Posts
    7,335

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto de Voltaire View Post
    I don't know about rights, as the implication would be that Citizens have more rights than Plebs, but some sort of Code of Conduct for Citizens could be a good idea to set out a clear baseline for Citizen behaviour.
    I've drafted many bylaws for non-profit governing boards over the years, it is very very helpful when trying to do so to come up with an idea of what the best behaviors are. Thus we can create a standard which promotes those behaviors and remove barriers to doing so. It's very useful when appealing to the spirit of the law to know what spirit you're appealing to as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    We don’t have ‘rights.’ We have certain privileges. I doubt GED would sanction a codified bill of rights.

    Sorry, Don’t mean to be curt, on my phone at work..
    I mean, admins do what they want and if GED hates our code whatever. My purpose is to try and construct a collective understanding of good behavior and I feel like the citizen handbook doesn't do a great job of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    @OP Rights bring with them obligations. Are you 100% you want to go in that direction?
    Rights bring clarity with their obligations and a sense of direction in action. If your obligations are excessive then there's a problem with the rights, well selected there shouldn't be a big deal.

    Editing in new rights right now.

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    As noted, we already have rights and obligations. With the badge and fancy color, if we fail to adhere to the ToS, then we risk receiving sanctions that could result in the removal of pretty color and badges.

    If you are curious...

    With citizenship, you are entitled to some benefits as well. They are;
    + Ability to change the default user title to a custom one.
    + Allowances to give more focused feedback and bring up grievances and positive comments in the Curia.
    + Ability to put forth proposals that can change any part of the site. (Generally, the admin pays attention to the request to the Curia, while the Q&S Forum would be dismissed unless it is a minor suggestion)
    + Ability to run in Curial elections, such as Curator, Censor, or Magistrate
    + 3 badges (Citizen, Civitates, and. Artifex to choose from and a colored name. (Artifex is a contribution in modding, Civitates for contributing in content and/ or debating. Citizen is for contributing in various areas not covered by the other two).
    + Can post in the Symposium where the rules are more relaxed.

    ... This is part of what I send prospective citizen.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    I'm completely unconvinced this wasn't proposed in a self serving way in which those holding opposite opinions won't be bludgeoned to the benefit of those holding "rights" based on this proposal; "Offensive speech" being among those things which can be punished. It seems like a transparent and frankly puerile attempt to censor the speech of others based on what someone subjectively defines as offensive speech.

    Awful proposal.

  10. #10
    Elfdude's Avatar Tribunus
    Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Usa
    Posts
    7,335

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights



    Your response is truly ironic.

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Or not. Your lack of reply will of course render any position you hold moot and indefensible: I won't be surprised. You've failed to reply to any content of my argument. Absolutely pathetic. I interpret this as an admission of wrongfulness on your positions, since youve offered no counter argument to my points.
    Last edited by Gigantus; October 15, 2018 at 12:43 AM. Reason: disruptive\derogatory personal reference

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Are you exhibiting exemplary citizen behavior commensurate to having special rights? (rhetorical question)

  13. #13
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
    took an arrow to the knee

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    11,588

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Why you have to make each thread (proposal or not) personal guys ? Just wondering here

  14. #14
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Sweden
    Posts
    5,245

    Default Re: [Discussion] Citizen Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    With citizenship, you are entitled to some benefits as well. They are;
    + Ability to change the default user title to a custom one.
    + Allowances to give more focused feedback and bring up grievances and positive comments in the Curia.
    + Ability to put forth proposals that can change any part of the site. (Generally, the admin pays attention to the request to the Curia, while the Q&S Forum would be dismissed unless it is a minor suggestion)
    + Ability to run in Curial elections, such as Curator, Censor, or Magistrate
    + 3 badges (Citizen, Civitates, and. Artifex to choose from and a colored name. (Artifex is a contribution in modding, Civitates for contributing in content and/ or debating. Citizen is for contributing in various areas not covered by the other two).
    + Can post in the Symposium where the rules are more relaxed.

    ... This is part of what I send prospective citizen.
    Which should be a 'C.' chapter in The Citizens Handbook.

    I notice that, after reading The Citizens Handbook, when I became a citizen.


    Also, the part 'A.' could be switched with 'B.', so it would be like this.

    Advice from a Parton

    Behavior of a Citizen

    Citizens about what I quoted above - What a Citizen can do after being accepted as a Citizen in the Curia

    So. The Citizen Handbook is a more like a "ABC guide for Citizens" or "A Citizens ABC" book.
    Last edited by Leonardo; December 02, 2018 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Re-phrase it into an amendment of The Citizens Handbook..
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.





    How to make Morrowind less buggy for new players - Of course every player may find it useful.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •