How do infantry attacks work?

[Lewna]

I've noticed that the attacks infantry do function differently, I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on this.
Infantry seem to do this "bash" attack, either with their shield or fist, the enemy gets bloodied when they get hit by it, but I've never seen a soldier actually die to it, I was wondering if anyone could elaborate?
I've also seen some attacks are more easily avoided than others, or do less damage than others, I'll list what I think is most powerful to least powerful.

1. Walking forward while swinging.
2. Forward lunge into kill animation.
3. vertical thrust into kill animation, where the sword swipes the face.
4. The punch with the sword hilt.
5. The standing still swipe into kill animation.
6. "Shield bash"

If anyone would care to correct and/or explain this, I would be very grateful/

[NorseThing]

I am not and never have been any good at the modification side of things. I will leave that answer to the more skilled among us. However....l

Welcome to TWC!

As a player I will try answer what I can. Most units have a primary and a secondary weapon. Archers often have a small sword or perhaps only a knife. So the secondary weapon comes into play during the melee. I am not certain this is what you are seeing or not. I hope it at least gets closer to narrowing the question if not actually answering it for you.

[Lewna]

Well it seems all one handed soldiers use the same attack animations, but they seem to have different damage values, I'm talking about primary AND secondary weapons, such as knives, maces, one handed swords ect. most if not all soldiers also have the bash attack which seems to do zero damage. So my question is, do these attacks have different values for the animations?

[AnthoniusII]

I've noticed that the attacks infantry do function differently, I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on this.
Infantry seem to do this "bash" attack, either with their shield or fist, the enemy gets bloodied when they get hit by it, but I've never seen a soldier actually die to it, I was wondering if anyone could elaborate?
I've also seen some attacks are more easily avoided than others, or do less damage than others, I'll list what I think is most powerful to least powerful.

1. Walking forward while swinging.
2. Forward lunge into kill animation.
3. vertical thrust into kill animation, where the sword swipes the face.
4. The punch with the sword hilt.
5. The standing still swipe into kill animation.
6. "Shield bash"

If anyone would care to correct and/or explain this, I would be very grateful/

Each unit (any kind) recieves a number of skills described in a text called EDU. In that text there are some numbers the define the fatique, charge , the weapons damage values, the unit's armor and what the unit does better.
For example spearmen recieve a value that give them extra hit points against cavalry units.
Swordmen can recieve features that make them feasome against spearmen or other kind of infantry units.
Each mod has a standard number of values that determine what damage a weapon can do against an other unit.
Knives
Swords
Maces
Spears
Pikes
etc...
The outcome of a conflict between an infantry unit against anyother one determines by its weapons, armor , charge bonus, fatique, morale , training but also the same values that the opponet unit may have!
Lets supose that a swordmen unit attacks in a unit of archers that have minimum armor and basic melee weapon. The unit of swordmen will sufair casualties from the archers voleys (arrows) but when they will engage in close combat they will have the upper hand. Animations give in all this "event" (a battle bwteen units) simply the visual result of that conflict making battles look realistic.
Some Examples:
In this picture you see the impact of a cavalry unit over a unit of spearmen.

Nottice that the horsemen are heavily armored compared to spearmen and the cavalry charge bonus makes that visual result (bodies in the air)!
Despite the fact that those spearmen are less armored if that cavalry unit wont withdraw soon enough and engage in melee (close) combat with the spearmen , the spearmen will "activate" their bonus of killing points over ANY cavalry unit and the cavalry unit will sufair heavy loses and may even lose the battle.
In the 2nd example we see two similar unit fighting each other. In this case two unit of "pikemen".

Nottice that both units use similar armor and weapons. That means that the unit that will win that fight depends of how "expirient" that unit is. When a Unit participates in battles some
features like morale (how soon they will start panic) and fatique improve. So in similar infantry units those two factors will determine the outcome of the battle (swordmen vs swordmen, spearmen vs spearmen etc).
In the last example we have two units ussing same melee weapon (in this case an axe).

Nottice that one of the unit uses both shields and body armor. The values of those "items" in EDU (each unit's statistics) reduse the damage they will sufair from all kind of weapons.
So lets supose that both units have the same fatique, same morale and same charge bonus.
The unit with the best armor will prevail and will win this battle.
These are some of the basic rules of how infantry (and all in general ) units work and fight ingame.
I hope i gave you some point of view how the game works. If you have more questions do not hesitade to ask.

[Lewna]

Thank you for this, however, my question basically is, do the different attack animation have different attack values? I've seen different attacks kill soldiers more often, it's rare to see a soldier survive the first attack I mentioned, where the soldier will often back up, then walk forward while swinging. basically, do different attack animations have different attack values?

[Lewna]

For example, 2 groups of DFK attack each other, I'll see more of them die to that attack mentioned above than to than say the one where they smack the enemy with the hilt of the sword (I mean in terms of if they survive the hit, actual deaths)

[Lewna]

Not actual deaths* Sorry

[AnthoniusII]

Animations are simply a visual addition .Animation themselves do NOT add anykind of fighting abillity. Animations are the "tool" to us to see a battle that factors i explained determine the outcome.
Animations have NO IMPACT in a unit's performance at all. Animations "activated" by the weapon EACH unit uses every single momement.
So archery animations activated when archers use bows and a close combat weapon animations activated when the same archers use a close combat weapon.
The same exists in almost all cavalry units. When they use a spear the animations that are activated are the proper to SHOW TO YOU that, but when they reach enemy lines they switch to swords and new animations activated.
In this example we can see both animations in the SAME UNIT at once!

How many enemies this unit will "kill" or how many "casualties" will have against the enemy depends on the unit's statistics and not by the animations it uses.
Nottice that in the last picture i posted in my previus post the armored axemen carry arrow quivers. That means they are primarily archers and before charge to enemy they use archery animations .
So when we create a unit we chose a weapon and add some values to the unit and "tell" the game machine what animations to use inorder all this thing to look realistic.
WE TELL the game what animations to use. We can have a spearman that uses his spear as a wooden club if we will "tell" the game to use mace animations instead of spear ones.
Something more complicated.
ONE unit two animations with two close combat weapons.



What efficiency that unit has against its enemies is NOT the result of the animations themselves but the result of the damage points that unit has and we gave them to it.
Because the unit uses two melee (close combat) weapons we have chosen a damage value close to average between the swords (inferior) and axes (superior).
But the animations (two diferent) were given to make the battle look to player's eyes more realistic.
See this example:

If you look cerfully in this chaos, you will nottice that Vikings and Normans use both swords+shields or double handed axes.
CAUTION: Depsite animation is simply a visual effect to make the game pleasant each unit that uses 2 weapons has two damage values (1 per each weapon).
So when a unit with bows uses its bows then the damage will deliver depends of what vallues we gave to their bows (range, accuracy) and the arrows (damage on impact).
When they will switch to close combat the game will activate the damage of the close combat weapon that may be sword, mace or knife etc.
Conclusion: Do not confuse the visual part of the game (animations) that their purpose is to make our game pleasnt to our eyes and not have autoresolved battles, with the abillity of a unit to fight according to its weapons and skills.

[Lewna]

Thank you, this helps a lot, now my last question is, what about the shield bash? I've never seen it kill someone, but it bloodies up the enemy and can be parried, what does it do?

[AnthoniusII]

Thank you, this helps a lot, now my last question is, what about the shield bash? I've never seen it kill someone, but it bloodies up the enemy and can be parried, what does it do?

Shield bash is an easthetic addition in to other animations that include combination of a weapon and a shield. The blood effect is also easthetic. Those features -like dust and dirt also- are graphics additions to make battles look more realistic.
In fact in many M2TW/Kindoms mods the dirt on armors, blood and dust on the unit's move are more realistic than in the latest TW games of CA/SEGA despite the fact that there are no blood drops spinning arround your screen.
Animations and graphics effects are the trick to force you play a battle on the field and not autoresolve it...In my so many years i play TW games since Shohun I i want to play the battles on the field to feel that i participate in them or that i am an epic movie editor!
I live to see battles that graphics and animations give realistic results like these:


I want to be able to look the "enemy" in his eyes!

To watch horses vains and muscles!

To see his armors in detail and finally thanks to the units statistics and my stradegy or mistakes to enjoy glorius victories or defeats.
Defeats are part of the game and i urge you not to avoid them because defeats train your brain more than a victory. A defeat will force your mind to fill with questions what did you do wrong and not to repeat them in the future. They are a good lesson for real life also when our mistakes make us wonder and be better in our lives.

[Lewna]

Thank you, this helps alot