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Thread: Pre-order DLC announced

  1. #61
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Pre-order DLC announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    No, no, no. Historical games should NOT be focused on unit roster updates and individual leaders ("legendary lords" WTF). It doesn't work for historical titles, as we're all about to find out with TW:3K and MOBA themed "hero packs." Faction Packs don't make good historical content either, unless it would be adding something VERY substantial, like India to the TWR2 map.

    What makes good historical content are gameplay systems of economy, diplomacy, politics, war, new campaigns like Charlemagne that reuse assets, and new maps and cities to fight over. Some of this is similar to what Paradox does with EUIV updates and what we saw for the first time with the political and family tree updates to TWR2. If instead of these kind of updates, CA focused on bringing new factions and units it would be incredibly dull to play. It would also encourage them to leave more and more out of the game and resrict mods. Mods can do skins and units, etc. Mods can't put a political system or a walled Jersulaem, or a new campaign map. Mods can't create a family tree mechanic.

    Warhammer is singularly focused on models and units and how they interact in battle. I see the popularity of Warhammer DLC by its community as a genuine threat to what Total War is. It would be a huge mistake, which you in essence are making, to extrapolate WH fantasy things to historical titles. I fear CA may be doing just that with 3K.

    Alternatively, instead of faction and hero packs, CA could decide to strip or postpone historical games of their mechanics up front, and add them back in over time with paid DLC. The point here is really like a games-as-service model, to dribble content out and keep the fanbase wanting more, a Pavlovian response for frequent "updates" of content. This could be the coming reality, and every nerdgasm or nerd rage Warhammer fans make over "high quality faction DLC" only encourages CA/SEGA to fundamentally change it's game design and development practics.

    So like I've said before, Warhammer really represents a mortal threat to continued positive evolution of historical Total War, as it exemplifies further dumbing down, to focus on faction mechanics, unit variety, and heroes, streamlining and dribbling content and getting fans to salivate about the next update that's just around the corner.
    You are right that Warhammer model wonīt work for history titles as well except Romance 3K with its heavy emphasis on characters as well. All other settings can offer a few notable characters, not for many factions and definitely not for multigeneration game. If the time period is limited to like Napoleonic Wars (Napoleon, Kutuzov, Wellesley), American Civil War (Lee, Grant, Longstreed...), Sengoku Jidai (lot famous Diamyos), maybe even ToB with starting setting you can add a few very notable characters. But any Grand Campaign with 100+ years scope can hardly offer so many characters. Expecially if you have to generate them as children.

    But bigger stress on charcaters would be better. I like how Warhammer is treating agents. They are no longer just some sidekicks to perform campaign action, they are much closer because you can equip them with items,skills and they can be another key feature in battle. This is of course not useful for any historical setting BUT if 3K with multiple characters leading parts of army is good way in my eyes. Historically every army has many lower famous officiers,generals. Look at Alexander and his generals, after his death they play key role in next Wars of Diadochi. These characters donīt need to be uber heroes like in Wh, I want just merge of agents,generals with large skill trees for many different way how to tailor each character. That doesnīt mean they should be powerful in battles! You have plenty skill trees to adress leadership,commanding, logistic, campaign stuff..

    And they really cannot sell unit oriented packs as majority of time periods the faction rosters were not so crazy but rather similar to WHs. The wildest is probably Rome period with Chariots, Elephants and Camels. Still with current CA approach,you donīt need to buy these extra factions. hey are added into campaign for free the same goes with FLC. Even if you buy just the core game, you get a tons of cookies over time. Yeah, game is not 100% at the start, more likely 75% but over time you get to 200% even if you buy nothing else. Look simply at the lastest example of Warhammers. Old factions are getting reworks, new features for free, FLC legendary Lords or Ancestral update for R2, free family trees. Tell me how is CA limiting your accessibility to these new features? They are teasing you giving you cookies to actually convince you the content is good. reading about other games and studios like EA battlefront II, Andromeda, FIFA and current Battlefield 5 or Destiny 2 from Activision, i would take CAīs way anytime!

  2. #62
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Pre-order DLC announced

    On the topic: but what about Renaissance Total War - could the TWTK be a base for a historical game of 16-17 centuries?

    On the other things:
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I have never bought and I do not plan to ever by Caesar in Gaul or Hannibal at the gates. I do plan on buying Empire Divided and Republic. I already have Wrath of Sparta. I also buy the faction packs mainly because of money and not enough time to play it yet. I always by on sale because of that. I am in no rush to buy anything.
    I've got a similar attitude, I don't have any of the DLCs for R2TW - I think the DeI is enough. I've seen some videos on the ED and RoR - they all made me decided not to buy these DLC as they seem to have the fundamental problem of the sniping group of armies (that is very limited in the Thrones - it's why I have bought it, even at full price), while having the same problems with the AI behaviour and balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto View Post
    What makes good historical content are game systems of economy, diplomacy, politics, war, new campaigns like Charlemagne that reuse assets, and new maps and cities to fight over. Some of this is similar to what Paradox does with EUIV updates and what we saw for the first time with the political and family tree updates to TWR2....
    As such, Warhammer may be the single largest threat to continued positive evolution of Total War, and especially historical Total War. It exemplifies further dumbing down, to focus on unique faction mechanics, unit variety and MOBA tactics, and heroes, streamlining and dribbling content and getting fans to salivate about the next update that's just around the corner. It should be self-evident this would come at the expense of historical authenticity and strategically challenging game play, however much some "fans" like it.
    I agree with it. However, I think it's inevitable and we'll stick to the old mods for many years to come. The bad response to the Thrones of Britannia (that I assess to be a move in the good direction) won't help.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Pre-order DLC announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    On the topic: but what about Renaissance Total War - could the TWTK be a base for a historical game of 16-17 centuries?
    How would it be? It's a millennia and a half in the past and on the other side of eurasia.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Pre-order DLC announced



    ​Scoodlypooper Numero Uno

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