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Thread: [Released] AAA: Greek Generals (v1.0.1)

  1. #1
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    Default [Released] AAA: Greek Generals (v1.0.1)

    AAA: Greek Generals (v1.0.1)




    ABOUT
    So, I've been working on and off for the past two weeks on the Greeks (finally). For this mod, I want to get a few new 3D assets done for them, just to add in some more variation and flex some of my 3D skills. Of course, I am no where near release at the moment - doing the Greeks will be a big effort, probably more so than the Romans, since this time I am going to do entirely new assets from scratch rather than a few re-exports or re-textures of existing assets. Thankfully, the Steam Workshop has lifted the limit for item file sizes, so I can combine all of the Greeks into one big mod this time rather than make lots of little separate releases for them.

    This is my initial plan for the Greek characters' appearances (not just generals, but also for women + politicians) in the first release:

    • Grand Campaign
      • Early Ptolemaic Egyptians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm,
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Macedonians (800 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm, 10 cold
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Greeks (800 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 20; 10 warm, 10 cold
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Spartans (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm,
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Seleucids (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Bactrians (400 VMD)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

    • Imperator Augustus
      • Late Ptolemaic Egyptians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm,
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

    • Wrath of Sparta
      • Early Greeks (600 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 20; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 30
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Early Spartans (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm,
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

    • Historical Characters
      • Cleopatra (20 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Battle of Raphia (2 VMDs)
        • Ptolemy IV
        • Antiochus III

      • Battle of Pydna (1 VMD)
        • Perseus
    EDIT (17/10/2018):
    I've planned some extra variants to implement after the initial release of version 0.1.

    • Grand Campaign
      • Athenians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Epirots (800 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Massilians (800 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm, 10 cold
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Syracusans (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Black Sea Colonials (800 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm, 10 cold
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

    • Wrath of Sparta
      • Early Athenians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Early Boiotians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old

      • Early Korinthians (400 VMDs)
        • Uniforms: 10; 10 warm
        • Character Variations: 20
        • Ages: Young + Old
    This post is reserved for the download link(s) and final descriptions once the mod is released.
    Last edited by Benjin; December 28, 2019 at 07:46 AM.
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  2. #2
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA Generals: Greeks

    Ptolemaic Egypt

    First up, like I've said many times before, I want to do the Ptolemaic Egyptians first (early and late). I want these guys to obviously have a predominantly Greek-influence to their appearances since at this time Egypt - I'm sure you all know by now - was ruled by the Ptolemaic Dynasty who were Greeks that had (to put it very simply) taken over the kingdom of Egypt after Alexander conquered it from its former Persian rulers and then died. However, I thought that making the Ptolemaic Egyptian characters share the exact same appearance as the rest of the Greek ones - like in the vanilla game - would have been very boring and also feel wrong when representing Egypt. This faction is meant to be unique - it has access to a wealth of awesome historical visual representation which I don't think was really tapped in the original game, so why not represent a bit of that to make them stand out more from the rest?

    You may have noticed already from my list above that I want to do two uniform sets for Egypt - one for the Grand Campaign (early) and one for the Imperator Augustus campaign (late). This is to make them feel different in both campaigns; one where they're more like their Greek counterparts (Grand Campaign) and the other where they're slightly more looking like they're their own thing plus with later Greek, Thureos-styled gear to fit the time. They're the only surviving Hellenic faction to be playable by that point and a lot of people choose to play them, so I thought it'd be worth doing. You may have also noticed that I'm not going to give these guys winter clothing either, so they won't be "Acclimatising". I felt that giving them this sort of clothing, which is hard-coded to appear only in winter, would just look strange when worn in their natural starting location. I think it'd also be a nice contrast to the rest of the Greeks who do decide to wear that sort of clothing in winter, since they'd be slightly more accustomed to it than the Egyptians.

    Ptolemaic Egyptian Appearance Art Style

    Before I show some of the work I've done for Egypt so far, I just want to explain my art direction for the Ptolemaic Egyptian characters. For AAA, like I've said before, my intention is not to be 100% accurate for all of the appearances, but to be somewhat faithful to both their historical appearances and the original game's aesthetic for ranks 1 - 7 and then allow for some custom / ceremonial gear, or "faction leader" styled appearances, for ranks 8 - 10 to symbolise a character's increasing status / power where they can eventually wear whatever they want and also to stand out from the lower ranks more. The reason I want it to fit in with the vanilla game's aesthetic / quality as much as I can is because I don't want there to be an obvious discrepancy in visual style. So, I want to keep faction colour masks for things like clothing and not go for a full-on realistic look like a lot of other mods try to do. I did the same thing with the Romans before, and nobody minded or even noticed.

    So, I wanted to give Egypt a different theme from the rest of the Greeks; I decided to make them wear a few entirely new assets that were unique to them from the few historical accounts / artistic representations we have of their officer / leader appearances - just to make them stand out a bit more from the rest of the Greeks - and also make their appearances progressively look more "Egyptian" rather than just solely Greek as their ranks increase. This is to symbolise their integration with the local traditions and culture over time (but not too much, of course; they'll mostly still look Greek), or pressure to appear to their subjects that they have integrated, which was an actual concern during the Ptolemaic Dynasty. It is most definitely true that the Ptolemaic Pharaohs wanted to appear to their native Egyptian subjects as their legitimate rulers rather than as foreign occupiers, since they embarked on many propaganda projects, such as the construction of statues / temples / artistic representations of themselves in the old Egyptian style. It is also suspected that they - in public - wore the same kind of clothing and practiced the same religious rites that the old Pharaohs would have (e.g. Nemes crown, Egyptian jewelry etc) rather than appearing as Greeks. So for the early ranks (1 - 3), I want them looking properly Greek with hardly any Egyptian influences. By the middle ranks (4 - 7), I want them to start adopting a few Egyptian things - kohl for their eyes, Egyptian-styled jewelry (cloak brooches mainly) and other smaller things on top of their Greek armour and clothing. However, by the late ranks (8 - 10), where they start looking more like a faction leader (Pharaoh), I want them to appear even more Egyptian - wearing more Egyptian-styled armour but combining them with Greek elements such as pteryges, helmet horsehair crests, Hellenic tunics, cloaks etc.

    Anyway, now that that's out of the way, let me show you two of the new things I've been working on for the Egyptians to start off with (will show more soon, there's a lot of potential for new Egyptian assets).

    Late Ptolemaic Egyptian Officer Helmet

    For the early ranks of the "Late" appearances for Egypt (Imperator Augustus), I want to give them this unique helmet which has been shown in many artistic depictions of Ptolemaic officers.

    References
    This is what the helmet looked like, for those interested.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    High-Poly Sculpt
    To make the helmet, I basically followed the same steps that 3D artists from CA would do for their assets; make a high-poly 3D sculpt...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Low-Poly + Texture
    ... bake the details onto a low-poly model, texture it...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 










    Final Ingame
    ... and then export as a rigid_model_v2 for the game to use. Converting the texture to be used in the game is a bit tricky, as Total War uses different shaders to the ones most engines use these days, so it's not going to look exactly like the renders from before unfortunately. I also gave this helmet an attach point called "centre_crest", for crest assets to attach to dynamically.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Egyptian Wedjat Fibula (Cloak Brooch)

    To make the cloaks that the Egyptian generals wear look just a tiny bit more Egyptian and show off their unique jewelry style a bit, I decided to give the Egyptian middle-ranking cloak a new fibula based on an Egyptian Wedjat amulet. Basically the same process as before...

    Reference

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    High-Poly

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Low-Poly

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Final Ingame

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    (WIP) Late Egyptian Uniforms - Rank 4

    So, with these two assets, this is an example of how they can be combined - along with the existing assets - to form a rank 4 uniform for the Late Ptolemaic Egyptians (Imperator Augustus).

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    More will be coming very soon to this thread - I plan to post two updates per week on progress (finished / unfinished work).
    Last edited by Benjin; October 06, 2018 at 08:53 AM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA Generals: Greeks

    Benjin, you absolute madman, these look fantastic!

    Can't wait to see how they look like covered in blood and impaled by barbarian swords

    A posh raider fellow wuz 'ere~

  4. #4

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA Generals: Greeks

    GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKSSSSS <3
    Ave Benjin!

  5. #5

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Looks so professional ! and still WIP omg lovely.
    Great job buddy !

  6. #6

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    i just say thank you.

    i already feel immersive to imagine the greeks, eastern, barbarians getting order.

    i hope to see this marvelous project soon!

  7. #7

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Fantastic news! Eagerly waiting for the release of this, maybe I will hold back my playthrough till the release of this (admittedly might be a while but think it will be worth it xp)

  8. #8
    aNarion.'s Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Great stuff Benjin! How is the update flow going on this?

  9. #9
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    I'm slowly getting there. I've acquired a few new sash assets for use on the armour, to signify a Hellenic general's command around their waist and retextured all of the existing Greek heads to be more high quality. The Greek heads for Egypt will have a slight difference though; some cosmetics will be applied to their faces (e.g. Kohl on eyes). The old faces will come later.

    Linothorax Sash

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Muscle Armour Sash

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Egyptian Head Example (Bearded)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I've managed to mostly finish the Early Egyptian (Grand Campaign) and Late Egyptian (Imperator Augustus) uniforms, ranks 1 - 9.

    Early Egyptian (Grand Campaign)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Rank 3


    Rank 5


    Rank 8


    Late Egyptian (Imperator Augustus)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Rank 3


    Rank 5


    Rank 8

    To finish off the Egyptian Generals, I just need to:

    • Add new greave assets to the Early uniforms (I haven't added the default ones because I want to give the Greeks new ones, to further differentiate from the Romans).
    • Add some Egyptian-styled engravings / decorations to rank 8's + 9's muscle cuirasses. Ranks 6 and 7 can keep the current, undecorated version.
    • Polish up the Egyptian greave assets' textures for later ranks; their diffuse / specular / gloss maps are currently too rusty / scratchy, but their normal map textures are perfect for what I want.
    • Create another Egyptian-styled fibula for the ceremonial cloak (roman_tint), replacing the commonly used lion one. I'll probably do something like this or this.
    • Create an entirely new extravagant, ceremonial, Egyptian-styled cuirass asset for rank 10, with a couple of Greek influences. Basically something like Cleopatra's armour - whatever she's wearing right now in vanilla will be the kind of thing rank 10's wear, so it'll be rarely seen and only worn by the ones who have enough gravitas to appear as something akin to a Pharaoh who is showing off their power. Ideally I'd give this kind of uniform to whoever the faction leader is, but unfortunately that's impossible since Rome II does not allow unique appearances for faction leaders like in Shogun 2 / Attila for some reason.


    With the Egyptian's basic look pretty much done (still need to change a few minor things later), I'm now working on the basic looks for the other Greeks, starting off with the ones from Wrath of Sparta (Early Sparta + Early Greeks, maybe give a couple unique appearances for Early Athens too since they're an important playable faction). I'll be showing them off next time I update here.

    So far, Celticus has been helping out by re-texturing some of the existing low-res Greek helmet assets to be more high-res + fit with the crests. The helmets are important and must be more detailed than the ones in vanilla, as they'll be seen not just on the battle but clearly seen in the character portholes (portrait windows) on the campaign map menus as well.

    Corinthian Helmet + Corinthian Animal Crest

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Pylos Helmet

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Illyrian Helmet

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Benjin; October 17, 2018 at 01:13 PM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Benjin, these look absolutely fantastic, can't wait for the etruscans (and hopefully other italians) as well as the barbarian and eastern factions if you ever feel like doing them. Keep up the good work, and happy modding fam!

    A posh raider fellow wuz 'ere~

  11. #11

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Badass looking !

  12. #12
    aNarion.'s Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Looks fabulous, Benjin! Keep up your great work

  13. #13
    Gyrosmeister's Avatar Monsieur Grec
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Damn, can't wait for my Greeks! Keep up the good work mate!

  14. #14

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Damn, can't wait this mod...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks


  16. #16
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    I think it's time for another update! I am now close to initial release and want to get feedback on what I've been working on quite hard for the past few weeks.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I shouldn't have to say this, but if anyone is really unhappy with anything I've done in any way, shape or form, please try to communicate your feedback or own ideas/opinions respectfully; these uniforms aren't final yet and more than one uniform style can be applied to a single faction's Generals to increase variety as well, so it's all subject to change, even after initial release.

    The reason I bring this up is because I showed some of these yesterday to someone from TWC privately - who I won't name - and I just received a tirade of angry responses over one faction's uniforms in particular. Even if you might have some good points or ideas on how you think a certain uniform should look like, I absolutely will not put up with that kind of aggression, especially when I'm spending a lot of my free time working on this as a hobby - for fun.

    Anyway, I've managed to finish the first versions of uniforms I want to use for the Greeks. Unlike the Romans, which just had two uniforms (Polybian + Marian), so far I've done not just the three that I originally planned to do, but ten for the Greeks (WoS Greeks, WoS Spartans, WoS Macedonians, GC Greeks, GC Spartans, GC Seleucids, GC Bactrians, GC Macedonians, GC Egyptians, IA Egyptians), with more planned after initial release for other playable factions and lots of other future tweaks (e.g. WoS Athenians, GC Athenians, GC Epirus, GC Massalia, GC Syracuse etc).

    While making these uniforms, my vision was not to make them all look exactly the same with only minor differences between each other like in vanilla (e.g. same old breastplate with a few different engravings). Instead, I wanted them to have a lot more character or variety with recognisable designs/silhouettes that you can tell from a glance based not just by faction but by their rank - fitting a certain aesthetic or pattern - just like I did with the Romans. I've made a deliberate design decision to give a unique art set to each playable faction's Generals, where they are more likely to wear a certain type of equipment throughout their ranks in an effort to make them stand out more and try to better represent the unique qualities of their rosters and/or faction's history. This will also help me limit the amount of work needed to get the uniforms done as well; I'm already working on so many uniforms for by myself at the moment (10 ranks, with warm/cold and slight variations for each character variation - which is around 30 heads, young/old - for 10 factions... that's roughly 12,000 VMDs; a lot of stuff to get right and test is working etc), so some simplification is needed in order otherwise I'll be spend forever working on it.

    These are what they're more likely to wear:

    • Spartan Generals (Wrath of Sparta) - More likely to wear a heavy muscle cuirass / corinthian helmet, appearing more like heavy hoplite leaders.
    • Spartan Generals (Grand Campaign) - More likely to wear a light muscle cuirass / pilos helmet, appearing more like light hoplite leaders.
    • Seleucid Generals (Grand Campaign) - More likely to wear arm armour / cavalry helmets, appearing more like cataphract / cavalry leaders.
    • Macedonian Generals (Wrath of Sparta + Grand Campaign) - More likely to wear linothoraxes / phrygian helmets, appearing more like pike leaders.
    • Bactrian Generals (Grand Campaign) - More likely to wear cavalry helmets / Eastern-styled details, appearing more like a cavalry leader while gradually adapting their appearance to fit their locality (still retaining most of their Greek characteristics; 70% Greek, 30% Eastern).
    • Egyptian Generals (Grand Campaign + Imperator Augustus) - More likely to wear golden armour / Egyptian-styled details, appearing more like a leader wanting to show off their greatness while gradually adapting their appearance to fit their locality (still retaining most of their Greek characteristics; 70% Greek, 30% Egyptian).
    • Greek Generals (Wrath of Sparta + Grand Campaign + Imperator Augustus) - A mixture; no unique theme.
    Spartans (Wrath of Sparta)

    Everyone knows them, everyone loves them, everyone expects them to look a certain way! Well, the Wrath of Sparta versions of the Spartan Generals are going to be what you'd typically expect of them; beards / long hair (no moustache - and if they do, it'd be trimmed and burnt as an offering), heavy armour, corinthian helmets with massive crests, muscle cuirasses, cloaks, lots of red / white and bronze shields with lambda symbols (well, not the officers - I think they had swirly patterns, which I haven't done yet and will eventually get around to doing later).

    Rather than using the vanilla Rome II heads + hair, I've decided to give them new heads which I think look much better - taken from Total War: ARENA. I had to edit the head's skin weighting to the skeleton a bit to get the mouth / eyes moving properly, and I also had to create a new neck + shoulder asset since it didn't have one for some reason. At the moment I've only got one head model, but I don't want every Spartan to look like a clone. So, I'm going to make a few different versions based on the one I already have and then create some new texture variantions - just like what CA did with the other heads for Rome II and Attila.

    I've also created an entirely new tunic separated from an unused vanilla asset called the "Seleucid Elite Armour" which, for some reason, had terrible skin weights and wasn't set to the correct scale to fit a regular body from Rome II. I did this new tunic because I've always hated the vanilla hellenic tunic and wanted something more fitting to the references I'd looked at. With the new hellenic tunic, I've made 7 separate versions which can be used on almost any vanilla armour with no clipping whatsoever. Since it's originally a CA asset, once the mod is released, anyone can use it; all I did was re-scale it multiple times and give it proper skin weighting - the harder parts (i.e. high-poly sculpt, baked onto low-poly mesh with a basic texture) were already done for me.

    I'm also using some new greave / cloak assets as well, rather than use the same ones I gave to the Romans.


    Visual References
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    From what I've been told, this is a comparison between Spartan appearances from Pelops Wars (right) to later period (left). So, earlier on, they wore much heavier armour.






    Spartan Uniforms (Wrath of Sparta)
    Rank 1
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 3
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 5
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 7
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 9
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Spartans (Grand Campaign)

    These guys were a little bit tricky - I wasn't sure what a Spartan General would have generally looked like back during the third century BC. I asked the advice of several people, and they pretty much told me that the Spartans had somewhat "devolved"; they stopped using the type of heavy armour they had used during the Peloponnesian War and adopted lighter styles. Most of the visual references I found for Spartan officers / leaders for this period were kind of surprising as I hadn't expected officers or leaders to be so... bare, when compared to their older counterparts. I thought it'd be funny, in an effort to further differentiate between the other Greeks, to symbolise this devolution through their leader appearances. So, I made it so that the higher the rank of a Spartan General, the lighter his torso armour becomes (replace muscle cuirass with linothorax, replace linothorax with nothing).


    Visual References
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    From what I've been told, this is a comparison between Spartan appearances from Pelops Wars (right) to later period (left). So, later on, they wore much lighter armour.






    Late Spartan officer leading his unit through a parade.


    Nice winter visual reference for Spartans - I guess they didn't change their appearance much during that time, therefore don't really need to give them one (if anything, I'd just give them another cloak layer or some shoes / boots).


    Spartans on the left - leader (center) and lots of other officers scattered around.




    Spartan Uniforms (Grand Campaign)
    Rank 1
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 3
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 5
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 7
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rank 9
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    It's taken me a while to type this up, so I'm probably only covering two today. The updates will be much more frequent now (i.e. hopefully one every day). Let me know what you guys think!
    Last edited by Benjin; November 15, 2018 at 10:31 AM.
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  17. #17
    suras333's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Benjin, your work is soooo appreciated! You are one of my heroes!

    All look great, but I don't know what to say about Rank 9, it's so naked..

  18. #18
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    Yeah, I'm not sure about Spartan GC Rank 9 either really - someone suggested that I devolve the Spartans as their ranks increase to make them stand out more and mimic a bit how their appearances changed from heavy to light over time, copying this reference for a late-Spartan leader (ranks 9 and 10). At the time it seemed like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure anymore. Would be cool to know what more people think should be for the high-ranking GC Spartans if I should change it.
    Last edited by Benjin; November 04, 2018 at 07:51 AM.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    I agree on Rank 9 general. It is surprising to see the highest ranked general naked after the logical circuit of increasing armor on each rank, although I understand your idea. I would suggest you to keep the old logic of the armor development. However, great work!

  20. #20
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [WIP] AAA: Greeks

    After thinking about it a bit more and receiving some more feedback (here + elsewhere), I agree - it doesn't really make sense to break from the established pattern suddenly for just one faction like that.

    When it comes to the torso / leg area, I think I'll change the Spartan GC Rank 9's + 10's back to wearing some heavy armour (muscle cuirass + greaves), same with Ranks 5 - 7 (slightly more simple), and Ranks 1 - 3 to wear the red / white linothorax instead. The 3D work put into that clothing + bare chest / arms / legs asset (separating meshes, re-scaling to fit with Rome II armours, re-weighting skin weights to skeleton etc) area won't go to waste though - I already intended to use it for the Spartan Politician variants. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Benjin; November 04, 2018 at 09:53 AM.
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