Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5
Results 81 to 84 of 84

Thread: Cornell U. welcome package: check your privilege

  1. #81

    Default Re: Cornell U. welcome package: check your privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Oh, but there is certainly something wrong with the current system of affirmative action in the US:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/u...americans.html
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...sian-americans
    https://nypost.com/2018/05/25/asians...mative-action/
    ...So, in theory, you don't even need affirmative action or racial quotas of any kind to increase campus diversity(which is the whole point of affirmative action)? Pretty interesting stuff.
    As well, as was discussed by Thomas Sowell on a famous episode of William Buckley's old TV show, the affirmative action movement also caused a large rift between Jews and Blacks...Why exactly that is, I can't seem to recall or don't fully understand, but Sowell and a Jewish intellectual(who was Sowell's debate opponent) both seemed to agree that affirmative action policies had divided Jews and Blacks in some way.
    Crazy idea: stop racial quotas for...Anything, period. Sounds like a better recipe for fairness than whatever the hell they're doing right now, because the current system definitely has something wrong with it, if students, be they White, Asian or purple, are being rejected on the basis of their skin color(which is clearly still happening).
    Yeah, it's not doing that, sorry. That was the ideal of affirmative action, but ideals and reality are very different things. In reality, affirmative action has made a very unequal playing field for Asian-Americans, and in some cases, White students as well(the same student group filing the lawsuit against Harvard with relation to Asian-American discrimination also argues that the U of Texas at Austin is biased against White applicants).
    EDIT:
    https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/opini...ein/index.html
    In what world is the above considered fair?
    None of what you quoted explains why affirmative action is the culprit there. Hence, then, arguing as if it is makes no sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    That’s not what he means. You’re talking about whites as a group, he’s talking about whites as individuals.
    None of that 65.2% figure got that scholarship because they were white.
    No, it was what he meant. He has access to a much bigger pool to get his chance at a scholarship. Whether we talk about whites as a group or as individuals means nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diamat View Post
    @conon: You still have to find me a whites-only scholarship. If you can't find it, then you should admit that there exists an element of racism targeted at white people. The scholarships available for Poles or Ukrainians are great to see, but they are incredibly few and far between for those groups, and they are specifically limited to a tiny group (a Pole can't apply for the Ukrainian one, etc.). Religious ones don't really figure into our discussion, because it has nothing to do with race.

    And as for my personal background, this is mostly private information I don't like to share with the internet. As I have already hinted, I did my undergrad degree in Texas, where I was a resident and hence received in-state tuition. And no, green card holders are not treated as cash cows, because they are treated the same as citizens (with in-state tuition etc.). Only foreign students on a student visa are treated this way. But I don't see how any of this is relevant to this discussion, because my point simply was that whites are discriminated against, making it especially hard for white immigrants.
    Why? Why does there have to be a whites-only scholarship? This is like saying its racist to help black people fight institutional racism because you're not helping white people fight institutional racism that doesn't exist for them.

    If we are to talk about personal anecdotes I also have stories of how non-white people, despite being some of the top students in their class, not being able to get scholarship because of their nationality. Lack of being white didn't matter there.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    Cities: Skylines
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ities-Skylines

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  2. #82

    Default Re: Cornell U. welcome package: check your privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Click bait... terrible articles. Affirmative action in the US is the only thing which has reliably closed the gap in wealth between demographics. It was so good that before it was repealed in california (liberaltopia of all places!?!) racial admittance was equal to their representation meaning blacks were equally as likely to go to college as whites which showed marked increase in their likeliness to become more wealthy which meant they produced more stable children and etc. Unfortunately for affirmative action to truly work it takes 2-3 generations. We barely made it through 30 years before repealing a program which hundreds of studies have shown worked. The funny thing is that after they repealed it, not only were overall college seats lost, more seats were disproportionately given towards Asian. Whites were equally represented before and after. Go figure.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ge-admissions/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...panic-students

    http://paulkivel.com/wp-content/uplo...tion-Works.pdf

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

    http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/cowles6.pdf

    We left these groups to historical inequality for hundreds of years, affirmative action was the scientifically supported way to fix it. Any math teacher can explain why normalizing your distribution will work to remove demographic differentiation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    ...So, in theory, you don't even need affirmative action or racial quotas of any kind to increase campus diversity(which is the whole point of affirmative action)? Pretty interesting stuff.
    That's BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    As well, as was discussed by Thomas Sowell on a famous episode of William Buckley's old TV show, the affirmative action movement also caused a large rift between Jews and Blacks...Why exactly that is, I can't seem to recall or don't fully understand, but Sowell and a Jewish intellectual(who was Sowell's debate opponent) both seemed to agree that affirmative action policies had divided Jews and Blacks in some way.
    BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Crazy idea: stop racial quotas for...Anything, period. Sounds like a better recipe for fairness than whatever the hell they're doing right now, because the current system definitely has something wrong with it, if students, be they White, Asian or purple, are being rejected on the basis of their skin color(which is clearly still happening).
    It doesn't because the racial quotas are fixing the inherent inequality to standings that are beyond the control of individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Yeah, it's not doing that, sorry. That was the ideal of affirmative action, but ideals and reality are very different things. In reality, affirmative action has made a very unequal playing field for Asian-Americans, and in some cases, White students as well(the same student group filing the lawsuit against Harvard with relation to Asian-American discrimination also argues that the U of Texas at Austin is biased against White applicants).
    Supreme court ruled to uphold affirmative action. They may review that vote but ultimately it's a program which has proven effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    I'm sorry, but AA is a program designed to end discrimination. It doesn't discriminate in regards to white or asian students, they simply do not get advantages due to it. Asian students still often end up getting hardship advantages because affirmative action also takes into account socio-economic factors. Furthermore it's important to note that it was harvard, the best school in the world which started using affirmative action under the belief that it was factors beyond the control of individuals which made linear merit measurements irrelevant when assessing the quality of their candidates. In a word, they cared about how far a person could jump, not whether they could reach the same height standing on a stool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Thatís not what he means. Youíre talking about whites as a group, heís talking about whites as individuals.

    None of that 65.2% figure got that scholarship because they were white.
    That's not something you can say. Cultural bias and ingroup bias is an incredibly powerful force, no scientist would support your conclusion there. You may be able to say they didn't get it explicitly because they were white, that's correct. Before cultural and racial scholarships existed whites as the dominant group with the most rights, most wealth and most free time regularly claimed almost all of it perpetuating inequality ad-infinitum.
    "Pride is not the antidote of Shame but its source, humility is its only true antidote." - Iroh

    "
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    @ Elfdude, I don't give a for your condescending appraisal of my strategy. You haven't addresses a single point because I think you're unable to. I'm embarrassed for you honestly. Never has somebody so pathetically claimed the moral high ground. Piss poor debating, piss poor. I accept your surrender. Absolutely pathetic. Phalera my ass.
    When all else fails insult your opponents.

  3. #83
    Aexodus's Avatar stahp
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Ulster
    Posts
    3,813

    Default Re: Cornell U. welcome package: check your privilege

    The funny thing is that after they repealed it, not only were overall college seats lost, more seats were disproportionately given towards Asian. Whites were equally represented before and after. Go figure.
    Maybe the Asians just study harder...

    Supreme court ruled to uphold affirmative action. They may review that vote but ultimately it's a program which has proven effective.
    Has it been effective at getting the best students?

    Do we all live in a ‘guild’ of Asians, a ‘fellowship’ of blacks, the teutonic order of caucasians? Why do they need to be equal?

    That's not something you can say. Cultural bias and ingroup bias is an incredibly powerful force, no scientist would support your conclusion there. You may be able to say they didn't get it explicitly because they were white, that's correct.
    Well that’s all I care about.

    Before cultural and racial scholarships existed whites as the dominant group with the most rights, most wealth and most free time regularly claimed almost all of it perpetuating inequality ad-infinitum.
    Ok. So what does that matter now. It’s like that in every country in the world.

    Like why should I, if I were a white immigrant, be discriminated against because I look similar to white Americans of yesteryear.
    Last edited by Aexodus; September 29, 2018 at 06:34 AM.
    Under the patronage of Pontifex Maximus

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by elfdude View Post
    I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Cornell U. welcome package: check your privilege

    The funny thing is that after they repealed it, not only were overall college seats lost, more seats were disproportionately given towards Asian.
    Asian students consistently score higher than Whites, Blacks and Hispanics on the SATs as a group. It really isn't surprising, that when affirmative action is ended, they end up taking a dominant role in student enrollment. That's because universities will probably make more meritocratic choices on student enrollment, without being shackled by what % of X race is in the student body, thus allowing more students in based purely on their grades(I'm excluding "cash-cow" student enrollments here), which usually means more Asians because they, as a racial group, tend to do very well academically-speaking.

    BS.
    Calling that BS would also imply that I either misquoted or made up that conversation between Sowell and said Jewish intellectual. I didn't:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5BMGYkVdX8

    From 0:37-0:55

    "Nothing has separated the Jewish and Black community more in the last generation than this issue of affirmative action. Which, for critical Jews, is termed quotas, rather than affirmative action..."

    Of course, things have changed since this interview--the mere fact that I mentioned William Buckley should let you know how dated this conversation is.

    Supreme court ruled to uphold affirmative action. They may review that vote but ultimately it's a program which has proven effective.
    I'm aware of that--I never insinuated that it was illegal. I suggested that it wasn't fair to Asians--which it isn't, since it's a well-known fact that Asians have to outscore whites, blacks and hispanics on their SATs to receive equal chances of acceptance. Why do you think so many Asian-American groups have opposed this policy(especially the policy of negative action used to cap Asian student numbers)?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...ation-problem/

    A study of ten schools by Princeton’s Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford found that, at private schools in 1997, “an Asian candidate with a 1250 SAT [out of 1600] would be just as likely to be admitted” as “a white student with an SAT score of 1110.” At public schools, Espenshade and Radford measured the “Asian disadvantage” in ACT points and put it at 3.4 out of 36.
    I'm sorry, but AA is a program designed to end discrimination. It doesn't discriminate in regards to white or asian students, they simply do not get advantages due to it. Asian students still often end up getting hardship advantages because affirmative action also takes into account socio-economic factors. Furthermore it's important to note that it was harvard, the best school in the world which started using affirmative action under the belief that it was factors beyond the control of individuals which made linear merit measurements irrelevant when assessing the quality of their candidates. In a word, they cared about how far a person could jump, not whether they could reach the same height standing on a stool.
    All well and good, but that still doesn't justify Harvard's use of negative action in an effort to cap Asian enrollment rates(which they're being sued over, with the plaintiffs being supported by the DOJ), nor does it justify why Asians must score higher in the SATs than the other big 3 racial groups of the US. It also doesn't justify why Asian students are pressured to "appear different" in college admission interviews, since so many of their fellow applicants are high achievers. There's nothing fair about that practice, hence why so many Asian-American groups oppose this policy, or at the very least want to see it reformed(important to note that AA wasn't really created with Asians in mind--it was mostly created with African-American inequality in mind) such that the unfair "negative action" caps placed on Asians by schools such as Harvard are removed. The "negative action" caps which were placed on Jewish student enrollments have been gone for decades... It's high time that the same be done for Asian enrollment.
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; September 29, 2018 at 09:50 AM.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •