Rome II worth it?

[Turek]

So I've recently returned to play my old darlings, the Total War games. I first started by picking up where I left, with RTW and MTWII, and the same mods as back in the days, Europa Barbarorum and Stainless Steel. Eventually, after receiving a generous amount of counsel from these forums, I've ended up playing pretty much exclusively MTWII (mainly with EB II and SS). The games were as enjoyable as I remembered, possibly even more so since the mods had developed so much during the years. I even found this awesome guide to make the graphics look better by using a third party filter program. To be honest, I love these games/mods and I will probably be playing them ever after.

This being said, obviously there are some serious limits to these games both graphics and design wise, and so I've eyed the newer TW games for a bit more updated experience. There are two things that are a priority for me in a TW game - my general area of interest is the European antique/dark ages/medieval periods and I always play with total overhaul mods aiming for a reasonable historical accuracy. After a brief overlook it would seem that RTW II is more or less the only viable alternative, since apparently TW Attila has some seemingly weird mechanics that cannot be countered with mods (correct me here if I'm wrong), TW Shogun II has it's setting in Japan and TW Britannia is such a new game that it yet has a minimal modding scene.

The only question I have in mind is that whether it's really worth it? The RTW II Emperors edition is currently on sale at HB at ~17€ which is not bad, but when you count all the DLC the total price will be over 140€, which is a lot of money for a game.

[Clint_Eastwood]

Firstly are you on right forum as Rome 2 is not medieval based at all and if your into that time period you probably want Attila and the medieval mod that is available on that forum. I believe it’s only custom battles for now.

I play Attila with ancient empires as I am only into antiquity/classical era games/mods. However Rome 2 is a blast now after the latest patches which have smoothed out the game.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

As OP mentioned above, his area of interest is also antique (antiquity), so Rome II falls very much into that category.

First off, please, bear in mind that there is a huge difference between M2TW and R2 engines. Some things work quite differently now and in some ways you may find it a bit dissapointing as I did once I switched from the Medieval 2-based engine.

That concerns mostly the campaign map that cannot be modded and thus it has it's shortcomings, particulary with regard to the geopolitical representation of some regions.

That said, this is a much newer game and there is a lot here for you to enjoy. There is no longer such a strict limit on a number of factions as it used to be, so now you will have dozens of them. The same applies to unit rosters.

Diplomacy is much better compared to the previous titles, plus now we've got eventually the family tree and a quite interesting system of internal politics which makes you compete not only with other states, but also with other factions within your state.

If you are that kind of player who goes straight for the mods without even touching the vanilla game, same as I am, then get yourself Divide et Impera (DeI) mod. After all these years of development it is now a jewel that will really provide you with some challenging, historically accurate gaming experience.

To play the game with its nearly full set of features you don't really need all these dlcs.

You may well just buy the upcoming R2: Caesar Edition, which apparently is going to be quite cheap (less than 20£?). With that package you will have access to the basic grand campaign, Imperator Augustus campaign and Caesar in Gaul dlc.

With this content you may easily enjoy playing the mods with the majority of factions for you to choose from. Some factions will remain locked behind other dlcs, but those are usually minor ones. And at some point in the future you may get yourself other dlcs if you will find it desirable.

[Turek]

@seleukos99

Indeed, my interest is also in antiquity. In addition, there seemed to be a few hosted modifications for RTW II that focus on dark ages/medieval times so I assumed you can play similar time period as with MTW II.

You were right in anticipating my reaction, what you write about the campaign map is kind of disappointing and also surprising. Usually maps are among the most easily moddable content in a game.

Higher faction/unit limit is always a nice thing, although I always felt the 30-something faction limit for MTW II was not a huge issue.

Aside from the obvious things like better graphics, diplomacy (and the AI in general) is one of the main things I was looking for in RTW II. It's nice to hear that the improvement is real. After playing other contemporary strategy games, playing against the MTW II engine AI (even with SS/BGR) sometimes feels like a game of whack-a-mole. The family tree/internal politics stuff sounds really interesting, I've always dreamed of a game that would combine Total War + Crusader Kings.

Yup, I pretty much go straight for the mods too. Judging from the number of threads/posts, Divide et Impera seems to be "the" hosted modification for RTW II. I will be sure to get it if I end up buying the game.

Ok what you wrote clears out the situation with the DLC's a little, they are the main reason I'm so unsure about buying the game. It's unbelievably frustrating to try to figure out which of the DLC's you need for a game to be able to play it decently. That Caesar Edition you linked looks slightly more reasonable, wonder if it's coming to Steam.

Thanks for taking your time and providing me with all the info, it was enlightening. I'll probably buy the game eventually. Either the Caesar Edition when it comes out, or then I might go for the long play and wait for all the DLC's to be bundled into a "Ultimate Emperors Edition" or whatever.

[Clint_Eastwood]

@seleukos99

Indeed, my interest is also in antiquity. In addition, there seemed to be a few hosted modifications for RTW II that focus on dark ages/medieval times so I assumed you can play similar time period as with MTW II.

You were right in anticipating my reaction, what you write about the campaign map is kind of disappointing and also surprising. Usually maps are among the most easily moddable content in a game.

Higher faction/unit limit is always a nice thing, although I always felt the 30-something faction limit for MTW II was not a huge issue.

Aside from the obvious things like better graphics, diplomacy (and the AI in general) is one of the main things I was looking for in RTW II. It's nice to hear that the improvement is real. After playing other contemporary strategy games, playing against the MTW II engine AI (even with SS/BGR) sometimes feels like a game of whack-a-mole. The family tree/internal politics stuff sounds really interesting, I've always dreamed of a game that would combine Total War + Crusader Kings.

Yup, I pretty much go straight for the mods too. Judging from the number of threads/posts, Divide et Impera seems to be "the" hosted modification for RTW II. I will be sure to get it if I end up buying the game.

Ok what you wrote clears out the situation with the DLC's a little, they are the main reason I'm so unsure about buying the game. It's unbelievably frustrating to try to figure out which of the DLC's you need for a game to be able to play it decently. That Caesar Edition you linked looks slightly more reasonable, wonder if it's coming to Steam.

Thanks for taking your time and providing me with all the info, it was enlightening. I'll probably buy the game eventually. Either the Caesar Edition when it comes out, or then I might go for the long play and wait for all the DLC's to be bundled into a "Ultimate Emperors Edition" or whatever.

I also recommend Wars of the Gods - Ancient Wars, as I play this when I am not playing DEI! They are on ModDB here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/wars-of-t...s-ancient-wars

Both are great mods and very different in there own gameplays.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

@Turek, sure, no problem! I'm glad I could help!

@Clint_Eastwood, it's interesting that mod you've recommended! So little I know about mods that are not hosted here on TWC... The only problem that, I guess, I would have with that mod is that they probably use the vanilla map in their grand campaign, right?

I am afraid that the Imperator Augustus map is the very minimum that I can tolerate in that respect...

[Clint_Eastwood]

@Turek, sure, no problem! I'm glad I could help!

@Clint_Eastwood, it's interesting that mod you've recommended! So little I know about mods that are not hosted here on TWC... The only problem that, I guess, I would have with that mod is that they probably use the vanilla map in their grand campaign, right?

I am afraid that the Imperator Augustus map is the very minimum that I can tolerate in that respect...

Yeah that mod has been around for some time, but I understand creator and team pulled the mod due to disagreements with TWC admins a few years ago...however I have followed mod via there own website, Steam and recently ModDB. The CAI & BAI elements are superb and even without scripting they have achieved so much with the mod in my opinion.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Yeah that mod has been around for some time, but I understand creator and team pulled the mod due to disagreements with TWC admins a few years ago...however I have followed mod via there own website, Steam and recently ModDB. The CAI & BAI elements are superb and even without scripting they have achieved so much with the mod in my opinion.

And how about the map? Do they use the vanilla map in their grand campaign, or have they managed to switch to one from the Imperator Augustus?

[Clint_Eastwood]

And how about the map? Do they use the vanilla map in their grand campaign, or have they managed to switch to one from the Imperator Augustus?

I believe it is the Vanilla map in Grand Campaign as I have seen no changes to maps in there notes...however feel free to check it out.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I believe it is the Vanilla map in Grand Campaign as I have seen no changes to maps in there notes...however feel free to check it out.

Sure! Anyway, thanks for mentioning it. It looks indeed like a complete, large-scale project.

[ScipioTheGreat]

I have seen a few mentions of that mod, but never anything related to actual content. I wonder if they’re able to maintain a sizable user pool with ModDB as their platform

[Clint_Eastwood]

I have seen a few mentions of that mod, but never anything related to actual content. I wonder if they’re able to maintain a sizable user pool with ModDB as their platform

As I say they have been very active on Steam for a number of years as that's where I first found them and I know recently they have a new guy on the CAI & BAI from Napolean/Empire total War (Bran Mac Born) who has created this for the mod, all I can say its been great playing this mod and DEI as both are different in my opinion.

[Turek]

I also recommend Wars of the Gods - Ancient Wars, as I play this when I am not playing DEI! They are on ModDB here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/wars-of-t...s-ancient-wars

Both are great mods and very different in there own gameplays.

Thanks for the link, I'll add it to my bookmarks! This was a nice remainder that mods do exist outside of TWC also.

[The Wandering Storyteller]

You have RII which has a variety of limited settlements, but it has great environments. RII is a great game to play.

AE is also great but complex.

So you have vanilla RII, DEI and then Attila's AE.

Download all three, and see which one you like.


If you want to just exp RII as it is - try it out.

[Caledoni]

Don't worry too much about the DLC either. I have all but the last one but only actually play the Grand Campaign and all my favourite factions are available with the base game.

I'm sure I will get round to them eventually but there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of diverse gameplay on offer with just the base game or even with a faction pack or 2.

at 17EUR it's a steal

[douglas]

I think the game is worth it. The latest piece, Rise of the Republic, is very good. (I play without mods.)

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I also recommend Wars of the Gods - Ancient Wars, as I play this when I am not playing DEI! They are on ModDB here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/wars-of-t...s-ancient-wars

Both are great mods and very different in there own gameplays.

Haven't checked them since their early development. Thanks for the reminder buddy.

[Patronus86]

The newer total war games are perhaps a bit more "polished" than the older ones.

My main gripe with the newer ones (Rome 2, and Empire to a lesser extend) lies with the tactical battles. They're just not that challenging and are not well-depicted.

The AI still doesn't have much of a clue on how to use its forces, tactically or strategically. The same can be said for the older TW games, though oddly enough the most challenging TW battles and campaigns I can recall occurred on modded Rome I and Medieval 2 campaigns. Rome Total Realism was by far the best Rome I mod (Europa Barbarorum was decent, but not as fleshed out). Third Age Total war is my ultimate favorite, though I'm perhaps biased due to my love of Tolkien's books. The point is, as dated as both of those game engines are, those games gave me the toughest challenges (both on the campaign and tactical maps), in spite of the AI's shortcomings. I can still recall quite vividly the blood and grinding assaults my Silvan armies made into Mordor; every major battle had me fighting against their armored trolls, which were a pain to deal with. I have never found any of the major battles in Empire or Rome 2 to be as challenging or as immersive; that's a huge disappointment since Creative Assembly promised to improve upon the AI, but never followed through with those promises.

The campaigns can be fun and immersive, but there are some features taken out (micromanagement of city development, character/agent development and retinue management). Rome 2 isn't bad (at least no that most of the bugs have been patched up); but for all the hype and development dollars that went into that game, I certainly expected something much better than what I got.

I'd wait until the game goes on sale. I never felt that it was worth the full value price that CA was asking for it (and all of its DLC's).

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Since AI is baked in the engine, we can't really expect much from a modified version firstly introduced with Empire and then wrongly implemented in Rome 2 era. Only with a completely new engine we'll be able to see different results. That'll cost too much though, so I don't have high hopes for a better AI.

[Patronus86]

Since AI is baked in the engine, we can't really expect much from a modified version firstly introduced with Empire and then wrongly implemented in Rome 2 era. Only with a completely new engine we'll be able to see different results. That'll cost too much though, so I don't have high hopes for a better AI.

That is ultimately why I favor the older games over Rome 2. The game engine was initially designed for Napoleonic warfare and then adapted to ancient infantry battles.

Despite all the improved graphics, the massively expanded campaign map, the increased unit roster and faction list, I still think the older games (Rome I and Medieval II) did a far better job of accurately depicting melee combat than does Rome II. As much as I enjoy Rome II, I still find myself cringing at times when opposing infantry forces blob into each other or glitch around terrain objects. These shortcomings of this new game engine were in Empire as well, but were somewhat bearable as the majority of combat took place at range, and melee combat was a secondary focus. In Rome II, it's just too hard to ignore.