Could there be an update for the Rise of the Republic?

[moralrelativism]

I have been playing this mod for some time in the Grand Campaign and love it immensely! The population and supply feature are one of its own kind that truly transforms the game play experience - so much so that I simply can't play without it, for otherwise it always feel like something terribly amiss

That's where the frustration over the Rise of the Republic DLC comes from. It's a fascinating DLC quite worth the bucks spent (since it's "Rome" II Total War, who doesn't want to get a taste of the city's original blooming into a major state?) Yet I can't quite well play it with the current version of DEI as the latter simply has too few unit types left for Rome. There isn't the Camilian Reform, nor is there the existence in the roster of all the pre-Camilian units originally present in the Vanilla game, such as Italian swordsman/spearman (albeit they do exist as garrison units). It seems the Hastati-Principe-Triarii trio is all Rome has to rely on as the mainstay of its military, not slightly different from its situation in the Grand Campaign. It other words it strips Rome of all its distinct assets unique to this historical period. That's a great disappointment, as it even backtracks from the Vanilla level of unit diversity. There are lots of unit packs on steam, unfortunately none is compatible with DEI.

Therefore the question is whether DEI has the plan of updating the current Rise of the Republic campaign (by at least restoring the roster up to the Vanilla standard, if nothing more fancy on the offing). At very least, there should be the pre-Camilian units recruit-able from the buildings in the beginning, and Camilian Reform available upon certain trigger down the road. Could anyone with some insight into the mod's current development share some information as to whether there is any move in that direction?

I really love the mod and hate to play Rise of the Republic without it; however, the campaign in its current shape is simply too reductive to be immersive. Should I cling unto the hope of any change of that in near future?

[Dardo21]

As has been answered several times before, yes an overhaul is in the works, please use the search function next time and posts questions in the designed stickied post http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...quests-for-1-2

[Dresden]

Its in the works but will take awhile since its all new rosters for so many factions.

Edit - nevermind dardo beat me to it

[Ahiga]

Like Dresden and Dardo21 said. As a slight preview, these are the WIP T2 Freemen type celtic spearmen and swordsmen (Short swords, so the celtic daggers. Senones will have an equivalent tier one with proper longswords). The missing heads have since been fixed.

[Fluke]

Beautiful work Ahiga, really looking forward to this!

[Geffalrus]

For April Fool's Day, can we get some Headless Gallic Horsemen?

[Ahiga]

Maybe as a Dullahan unit, sure.

As before, WIP, and I cannot give an ETA. The names aren't assigned yet and I'll use DEI's terminology for that, I just operate in a planning format with a levy/freemen/retainer/nobles kind of classification to make sense of unit tiers and quality.

The top row are the retainer grade of spearmen (also swords and cavalry). Mix of armor and no armor (About 2/3rds), all helmeted. The bottom row are early nobles (late having mail introduced, unlocked via technology). All armored. At a minimum the noble grade units will be sword and cavalry (and bodyguard). May restrict them to T3 Retainer spearmen and not get a T4 noble. Or Senones might get the T4 spear and Insurbes get a Noble chariotry (while Senones might be limited to retainer chariotry).

Beard probability is set to around 80-85%, as there are some period celtic depictions where they are clean shaven (hallstatt scabbard and I think a Greek vase of a gallic horseman).

Click on https://i.imgur.com/LccV5It.jpg for full resolution. Below is preview.

[Geffalrus]

Those look pretty darn awesome. Good work!

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

You da man, Ahiga

[ThePoshBarbarian]

Gotta say, those new helmets are looking fab on those celts!
Keep up the good work Ahiga, happy modding and best of luck!

A posh raider fellow wuz 'ere~

[Geffalrus]

Is the Taras roster going to feature Spartan and Epirus units seeing as how Archidamus campaigned for Taras in 342, and Alexander Molossus campaigned in 333BC? There could be an argument for Epirus using phalangites seeing as how Alexander Molossus served as a page with Philip II of Macedon. Additionally, the pike phalanx may have been developed by one of his immediate predecessors (see An Invincible Beast by Christopher Matthew). Just a thought.

[Ahiga]

I'd defer to our Greek experts to speak on that, but I was thinking to offset Taras' weak roster (Beyond Tarantine cavalry they don't get much of anything Syracuse doesn't already have) it would make sense to let you bring in Spartans. As I don't think we're going to script ROTR it'd be just as mercenaries/global mercenaries unique to Taras.

I am not sure we decided on an end-date to what DEI's take on ROTR's campaign would be. Or what ROTR itself considers to be the 'end year' or what scope of the 4th century it covers. In terms of unit designs I was planning on a whole 4th century take - hence Celts getting mail as unlocked and most factions unlocking shielded cavalry (only Taras and Gaul seems to have them circa 400BC though possibly Veneti too judging from neighboring Illyrian artwork from the 5th-4th century. By the late 4th century you see more, but not universally, cavalry with shields). So everything within the 4th century, with exception to Macedonian stuff, is on the planning board. Nothing Macedonian unless it becomes viable to script it in. Which would be fun, Alexander of Epirus as a kind of Hun/Mongol invasion. But that's not practical right now.

To put it simply:

-Spartan units for Taras are highly likely/almost guaranteed
-Epirus units are almost certain to not be featured
-No depiction of Alexander of Epirus showing up.

Iphikhrates' reforms is an always controversial topic and I forget what DEI's take on it is if such a unit exists. The more compelling argument I read at http://lukeuedasarson.com/Iphikrates1.html is that they would be cast as perhaps 'pseudo-sarissa phalanx' ingame:
-One handed spears but longer than hoplite spears
-Round pelte style shields (one translation says thureos but I am skeptical on that, and I think they'd be not be bronze faced macedonian style peltes but that's just me)
-No greaves, just boots
-quilted corselets and probably linothoraxes but no bronze cuirasses.

I think I saw in the VMDs that Iphikrates actually exists as a general you can somehow acquire. I don't know who gets him or if I am mistaken. Again, ideally you'd have it scripted where once he shows up you can then recruit Iphikratean hoplites. But failing that I can see it being a final tier tech for Greeks to unlock. Not to replace existing hoplites but supplement them with a single Iphikrates unit.

[Geffalrus]

Haha, I must be weird because I actually rather liked their roster. The highest tier hoplite, interesting cavalry, solid peltasts...........what's not to love?

Well, RotR does have random invasions by Celts, Illyrians, and Numidians..........I've not played long enough to see if they have an Epirote invasion as well. Technically Alexander and the Epirotes were invited in to campaign on behalf of Taras (just like the Spartans), so I figured they could be unlockable late game units. Researching the tech equates to Taras sending an envoy requesting aid to Sparta or Epirus, at which point, units from Sparta and Epirus become recruitable. At least that's one way of visualizing it. Mostly I just want to spice up the roster a bit.

Mmmmm, I also enjoy Luke Ueda Sarson's research on the subject. Don't always agree, but his approach and thoroughness are to be respected.

DeI's current Iphikhrates Peltast would not be a bad version of it - adjust the stats a bit, but basically it would be an unlockable improved melee skirmisher.

Have you played the Hellenika mod for Wrath of Sparta at all? They have a crazy awesome interpretation of the Iphicratean Peltast. The thing has like a million abilities. It has the boots, the small shield, a bunch of javelins, a long sword - AND - they somehow gave it a phalanx formation. You can turn the skirmisher into a phalanx unit. It's a little awkward to use, but very, very interesting.

[Ahiga]

I haven't played Hellenika but that's interesting. I was mulling over how to depict the Etruscan/Veneti/Latin/Campanian hoplites on that topic. I am firmly of the mind from the evidence that Italic hoplites (not Italic greek, just Italian) were the 'immature' hoplite of the 6th-7th century where they carried two spears and were not in such a tightly packed formation. It's based on a number of evidence/material I am too lazy to reiterate here, but suffice to say I am trying to now decide if they should have the DEI Phalanx ability or not.

Your experience with Hellenika points out at least it is physically possible to have throwing weapons and the phalanx formation, though whether the AI can handle it or not is another question.

[KAM 2150]

Well you can give our Iphicratean Peltasts phalanx ability too but AI gets bugged with it when it has also ranged attack, which is why our guys do not have this ability (they had it at early testing phase).

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

To be honest I don't remember much the Iphicratean Peltasts depiction in Hellenika but I think it worked without issues.

[KAM 2150]

For the player yes, it will, for AI, not so much.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

For the player yes, it will, for AI, not so much.

Good to know buddy.

[Ahiga]

Since I hadn't given an update in awhile.

I am going with an assumption that Livy's Servian system represents a kind of Etruscan/North Italian model of military obligation/organization. The Situla Certosa, which is Etruscan but sometimes associated with the Veneti, almost perfectly depicts it with two types of scutarii (one with the very cheap disc-and-stud skullcap and one with a Negau crested helmet) and hoplites with Crested Negau. This is repeated on another situla albeit with just 1 hoplite to 3 or so scutarii. So the Veneti and Etruscans will both follow the model of: 4th class spearmen levy with no helmet (and wicker shields), 3rd class spearmen with helmet and scutums, 2nd class spearmen with (some) greaves, better scutums, better helmets, 1st class hoplites. For visual variety I will have the 2nd class Scutarii have bigger scutums, though with perhaps some of the smaller ones mixed in.


These are Veneti Spearmen of the 3rd class.

These are your slingers, inspired by the psioli look. It's not entirely clear if Veneti civilians/psioli would look more Greco-Italian, Illyrian or what. I doubt they would look Celtic at this stage given 5th century Veneti/Veneti neighbor art does not depict it and accounts of their Celtification I take to have happened over the 4th and 3rd century. So I elected to go with a look which will largely be similar among the Greeks and Italians (Not celts or Phoenicians) levy grade units - shepherd's goatskin vests, fur/goatskin cloaks, exomis and chitons in very drab dreary colors, felt hats.


In both cases lighting is a little bit off because I have a complicated mix of Gem and sweetfx with one of them running but always turned off. I'm going to fix it all once I am closer to playing rather than testing

[Fluke]

Thank you for the update, I really enjoy following your work in this thread.