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Thread: Release within 2-3 days

  1. #21
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    PB, in anticipation to the release, could you give us a changelog? i'd be eager to read it :-)

  2. #22

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    PB, in anticipation to the release, could you give us a changelog? i'd be eager to read it :-)
    Same wish here

  3. #23

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    My 5 year old son was playing and just pulled the power cable out by 'accident'

    As for a Changelog, there really is way too much. Following is the what I have prepared for the release thread though:



    "OK guys, after literally years of work and innumerable delays, here is the BETA release. Its a standalone mod of around 30GB uncompressed so unzip it into your Medieval II Total War\mods directory.To run the game, double-click on or open the Medieval II Total War\mods\RRRC_Ultimate\RRRC_Ultimate.bat file.

    You will be prompted to choose the type of formation your AI opponent prefers to use on the battle map (they won't always use it, but they will prefer it). The options are:
    1. Balanced: Skirmishers in front, spears central and behind, melee infantry (swords, polearms etc) further on the left and right and in the second line if there are enough units to warrant one, and cavalry on the wings
    2. Horse Archers (eg Mongols): HA and other skirmish cavalry to the fore
    3. Heavy Cavalry (eg France): Heavy cavalry to the fore
    4. Archers and Heavy Infantry (eg England): Archers at the front (will deploy stakes if they are in defense mode and if they can), heavy infantry behind, and cavalry on the wings. Note that this is WiP and will be released shortly in the first patch/update; for now it defaults to 'Balanced' mode
    5. Random: one of the above will be chosen randomly and the game will not tell you which it is
    Unlike other mods, rather than deploy its units in group chunks as defined by their type (spears etc), the formations in RC are built unit by unit from the center out.

    What I suggest is, before each battle, to save it then exit M2TW and start it again using the above program if you want to change the AI opponent's formation, then re-load the saved battle and play it from there. I will also be experimenting with some new values for auto-resolve which better reflect the strengths of each unit, also to be included in the first patch/update.

    After you select, that file will close and the RRRC setup program will begin - here you choose the campaign you want to run, and from among the many submods as well (hover over them for an explanation). There are multiple campaign choices but for now many are Works in Progress. The four mini-campaigns will appear shortly in the first patch/update, and the Late Era 1370 grand campaign ASAP after that - it will be quite a lot of work because it will feature new era-appropriate factions (such as Burgundy and the Jalairid Sultanate), leaders/generals and units, and will be as historically accurate as possible. Georgia and another faction will be added to the High Era grand campaign, and Georgia to the Early one.

    Please also find attached some documents pertaining to RR (highly recommended), BGRIV (for which some costs have been re-worked) and the integrated ReallyBadAI for the battle map.
    Further to the RR document: with RR there is actually quite a lot going on, but since it mostly uses normal game mechanisms its pretty much transparent to the user. But the 9 unit categories do have quite a big effect on recruitment, and all the relevant values are what they are for a consistent set of reasons.

    Reading it is good because it gives you an understanding of this, and I think that increases your enjoyment of the mod; whereas the workings of RC are pretty obvious, for most people RR is more nebulous - yet back when it was being designed and implemented, I put more time into it than RC. Partly, this is because I saw RR as providing a more in-depth and realistic context for RC. It isn’t much use having a realistic combat mod if the unit prices and recruitment make little sense, because then army compositions will reflect reality less. For example, unit prices are about the cost to the faction of recruiting and paying for them, rather than being calculated on their basis of their stats, and are based on actual medieval prices.

    Combining RR with all the recruitment stuff in BGRIV (and they are specifically designed to work together) makes for quite a complex and dynamic picture.

    For a look at some of the work that went into the prior versions, RR 1.3 / RC 1.8 way-back-when, please see the following thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...**AUGUST-13***

    For an overview of many of the changes and updates implemented in RC2.0, please see this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...es-and-Changes

    Summary of Changes and Updates in RC2.0

    RealCombat 2.0 is a top-to-bottom renovation of the earlier version of RC and wrings out every last possible piece of tactical goodness from the M2TW battle engine, a remarkably deep and sophisticated piece of software. It is the culmination of over 10 years of work on RC and pushes it more towards being a simulation of medieval-era combat, whilst also being entirely transparent to the user. It can be readily adapted to any other era, from ancient up until colonial times.

    Aside from the nitty-gritty details of weapons and armor, a major emphasis has been placed upon further deliniating the differences between various types and classes of units - skirmish horse archers as compared to missile HA, western close-order charge cavalry vs eastern skirmish cav, heavy vs light infantry, professionals vs mercenaries etc, as well as between their different quality levels.

    So, here is a non-exhaustive list of some of these updates and changes, starting with cavalry and covering other aspects in successive posts:

    1. CAVALRY
    - New mounts: Destrier, Late Heavy Horse, Spanish Horse
    - Mounts have updated values for move speed, mass, non-couched weapon charge bonus, heat, stamina, x-radius
    - New mount categories: Pony, HA/Javelin, Lancer, Charger, Brawler. These further modify the values for melee attack, charge, defense, move speed, mass, heat, morale, x-radius
    - Each mount category behaves differently in melee - Ponies, HA/Javelins and Lancers tend to pull back whereas Brawlers push forward. These behaaviors are further modified such that Impetuous and Elite Melee cavalry push forward more strongly while Bodyguards, Light and Spearmen cav pull back more. So, for example, we see French Impetuous Elite Lancer cavalry pushing forward in melee, whether or not that behaviour is tactically sensible at the time
    - Cavalry with a melee level of Superior or better gets the frighten_foot attribute, which is an important part of depicting the psychological impact of strong cav on foot units. Conversely, pikes get frighten_mounted
    - Increased mount mass for more realistic charges - this does not necessarily cause many more charge casualties from the front, but does enable heavy cavalry to charge into and sometimes right through enemy infantry
    - Increased vulnerability to missile weapons
    - Armor value now a combination of the rider and mount armor values rather than an addition
    - More vulnerable to spears and polearms, both of which now have the frighten_mounted attribute the same as for pikes
    - Gun cavalry now works properly, all the riders in the formation open fire rather than just the front row

    2. AUTORESOLVE
    Preliminary values undergoing testing; better reflects the actual effects of such units on the battlefield:

    Foot Unit 1
    Mounted Unit 3
    Missile Unit +1
    Skirmisher Unit +1
    Peasant -1
    Peasant Militia -1
    Superior +1
    Elite +1
    Exceptional +2
    Bodyguard +1
    Heavy Cavalry +1

    MINIMUM VALUE IS 0.

    3.MISSILE WEAPONS
    - Javelins and Naffatun throw more quickly without an extended aiming animation
    - Siphonatores fire more quickly without an extended aiming animation
    - Mounted pistoliers reload very quickly to depict carrying a brace of already-loaded weapons
    - Crossbows have +20m range boost to compensate for needing to be loaded before shooting
    - Better quality shooters receive a +1 attack bonus. This represents such aspects as compound arrowheads with a hardened steel tip, or a better quality crossbow

    4. INFANTRY
    - Many weapons have re-worked stats. For example, after further research axes are now non-AP but receive an attack bonus; 1H axes have a smaller x-radius enabling closer formations, a faster attack speed and reduced heat penalty
    - Stats included for Ancient and Dark Ages weapons such as the Gladius and Sax, and specialist Late Era ones like the Estoc
    - Falchion added and wielded by some Lithuanian infantry
    - Animations customized for 1H cut, thrust, cut-and-thrust, club/mace/warhammer/falchion, rapier, plus shield and non-shield versions of these weapons
    - Animations customized for 2H cut, thrust, cut-and-thrust, club, axe, estoc, swordstaff, halberd etc, plus phalanx and non-phalanx versions of these weapons
    - The animations integrate with the updated stats to better depict the time taken to position and execute effective attacks, and the risk of such being interrupted by opponents with faster weapons
    - 2H weapons now better employed in their historical role of assault and flanking but suffer more in prolonged melee
    - Customized x-radii that better reflect the space required to wield weapons effectively, eg 2 spearmen can now face one polearm user, 3 spearmen can face 2 typical swordsmen. These values feed into formation stats such that some units are now wider or narrower than before, in both close and open order modes
    - Some re-working of how 'Aggressive' animations work, ie these units are less concerned with unit cohesion and will push forward vigorously - used by Sword and Buckler Men plus other anti-pike units, fanatical units, barbarian infantry etc
    - Better-quality fighting men can receive +1 attack bonus to melee attack value for weapon quality
    - Spears re-worked to have better attack and significantly higher defense, and along with polearms and pikes are better vs cavalry
    - Infantry of quality militia or less can be pushed back in melee; these units are now more difficult to effectively attack with as well

    5. ARMOR SYSTEM
    - Armor stats updated, especially heat
    - Armor types added subsequent to the Improved Metallurgy event: White Harness (Northern Italy), Gothic Plate (Southern Germany), Greenwich Armor (England), Maximilian Armor (Germany)
    - Better-quality fighting men have access to advanced armor types years in advance of average units
    - Better-quality fighting men can receive +1 or +2 bonus to armor value
    - Better-quality units have slightly increased mass

    6. AI
    - Tweaked the formations file to increase the chances of different deployment formations being used by mostly HA or Heavy Cav armies, for example
    - Increased differences between the 5 AI battle files, one of which is randomly chosen by the AI prior to each battle, leading to variable behavior on each occasion
    - Variety of different AI formations for different types of opponents that are chosen by the user or randomized on each game startup

    7. OVERALL COMBAT BALANCE
    - Updated the battle config file to slightly increase the effect of missile weapons on cavalry and elephants globally

    As is stated in the thread subject line, this is a BETA release. If you get any battlemap crashes, in most cases it will be because one of the involved units has not been correctly brought up to date with the new animation set - given that there are 600 units and multiple new animations, this is entirely possible. If it happens, please forward to me a save of the game if you can - I will be able to fix it rapidly in most cases - you can then reload your game and run the battle in auto-resolve mode for that battle for the moment.

    Campaign map crashes can be a little more complex; in that case please forward to me a save of your campaign game if you can and it is likely I will be able to repair it so you can continue. But that's what you get for being a semi-voluntary beta tester

    Huge thanks to all who put their time and energy into providing feedback and suggestions during the development process, this mod would not be what it is without you guys!

    I am of course interested in your feedback and suggestions (including for new content, but don't worry there will be plenty of that, and will try and keep the momentum up), so please post them in this thread

    I highly recommend you download and install the attached SweetFX graphics post-processor, simply unzip it into your Medieval II Total War folder, that's all there is to it. It adds vibrancy, depth and contrast.

    Please also unzip the final attachment 'Fixes' into your mods folder, it contains a few minor things I forgot to change in the primary upload."
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BGRIV Recruitment Guide.pdf   ReallyBadAI Battle System v4.5 ReadMe.pdf  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Point Blank; September 13, 2018 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #24
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Great PB, thanks!
    The RC2.0.txt shows why we're in awe of you.

    As we're waiting for the upload, a question: what do you think about the battle system in the EBII (low morale, low killing ratio etc.)? (or maybe you haven't played it)

  5. #25

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    I have not yet played it as my available time has been entirely devoted to this mod, but I fully intend to. Its a beautiful mod and I think anyone interested in the era would be much better served by playing that rather than R2TW.

    Way back when it was just being put together I was going to do some work on the combat side of things but just was not able to. If they ever wanted to use any aspects of RC, the animations being a good place to start, I would be happy to work with them on it.

    The low morale / low kill rate approach is an interesting one and seems quite era-apppropriate, leading to more of an emphasis on maneuver and smart unit positioning. RC2.0 also has greater morale differences between different unit quality levels than before, with lower-quality units having less than before; plus its easy to tweak for any mod via melee-kill-rate in battle_config.xml. Ancient-era cavalry is also quite different, with smaller mounts, different training having less emphasis on the charge, no couched lances and the arguable difference with having no stirrups etc.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Great news, Khevsur has agreed to join us to work on integrating Georgia into this mod. He is extremely knowledgeable, see some of his recent posts http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-units)/page21



    So really I am keen to put together a proper team to move forward; there is simply too much work for me to get it done properly just by myself - we don't want to be waiting another 6 years for the next serious update!

    Anyone who is keen please let me know
    Last edited by Point Blank; September 13, 2018 at 01:29 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    From Khevsur, he doesn't waste any time!



  8. #28

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Excited! please god let it be true this time.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    I'm uploading it right now, but its pretty big, current rate is about 3-5% of the file per hour lol.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    I'm uploading it right now, but its pretty big, current rate is about 3-5% of the file per hour lol.

    Awesome, can't wait!

  11. #31
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Georgian Faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Great news, Khevsur has agreed to join us to work on integrating Georgia into this mod. He is extremely knowledgeable, see some of his recent posts http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-units)/page21



    So really I am keen to put together a proper team to move forward; there is simply too much work for me to get it done properly just by myself - we don't want to be waiting another 6 years for the next serious update!

    Anyone who is keen please let me know
    Aren't his units already in Broken Crescent? Couldn't you just port them over before changing the animations? k/t made an RR/RC 2.0 (earlier version) Broken Crescent submod with a few twists. It might save you some time because Georgia is in there. The Armenians, Abbasids, or the Seljuks of Iraq [splitting the Seljuks into 2 factions and adding some of the Ghulam units (they look awesome) to all the Muslim Factions] could be included in the early campaign. It would only require permission but I'm pretty sure most modders on Broken Crescent have given permission to use their units.

    Link to k/t's submod is below.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...scent-RELEASED
    Last edited by Judeman266; September 13, 2018 at 08:51 PM.


  12. #32

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Great idea!

  13. #33

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Won't you mind uploading the units files, the mounts, as well as the animations so we can do some battle testing right away?
    From the export_decr_units you uploaded here, I really like what you did with the Janissary Heavy Infantry, as well as the other elite infantry units.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    The upload will be complete in about 3 hours I'd say, hold on a bit, its at 70% Just putting together a small patch now that will be downloadable in the release thread.

    Been running a few historical battles - Agincourt, Bicocca, Tannenberg plus Highland Vengeance and Mongol Assault. Great fun, and the battle results are pretty much exactly what I want. And its certainly not a good idea to underestimate the battle AI now.

    The Janissary HI are badass, no question.

    The 4 mini-campaigns are not too far off working too.
    Last edited by Point Blank; September 14, 2018 at 03:32 AM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    I was just talking with Khevsur about the Georgian BC units, he says they are a bit of a mishmash of different eras; for example one might have a helmet from the 18th century, armor from the 6-7th and a shield from the 11th. I will contact them and ask if we could perhaps work with their modeler, because their units are really nice, or does anyone have any ideas on who might be willing to assist? Obviously its not a small project.

  16. #36
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    I was just talking with Khevsur about the Georgian BC units, he says they are a bit of a mishmash of different eras; for example one might have a helmet from the 18th century, armor from the 6-7th and a shield from the 11th. I will contact them and ask if we could perhaps work with their modeler, because their units are really nice, or does anyone have any ideas on who might be willing to assist? Obviously its not a small project.
    Hi PB, there's one of the longest discussions on the SSHIP webpage on the Georgia roster. jurcek1987 apparently was preparing something, but I doubt he delivered something. I'm not aware of any active modeller.
    In my opinion the only think you can do is to re-use the existing units.

    Anyway, the long waiting for your mod made me eventually buying Thrones of Britannia. I couldn't wait longer ;-)

  17. #37

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Yeah had a look at that...a modeler could be a problem. In the absence of one we will just use existing units to get Georgia up and running sure.
    Thrones of Britannia with the Warcrap engine? Nooooo! haha. You should have just played the Britannia version in Kingdoms But actually how is it?

    The upload is 80% done!

    I keep meaning to put in my application to work for CA as a beta tester or something. I was offered the role back in 2008 to work on Empire but was too busy, bad decision. I can do any era from ancient up to modern, pick any weapon system from any era and I'll be able to tell you about it off the top of my head, right down to weapon calibers, tactical employment etc, aerial, naval - WW1, II, wooden walls, fighters, modern AAMS, PGMs, radar systems etc. You would be very interested in some of the stuff my company is working on (my MS thesis way back in 1990 was in AI, neural networks, which are huge now)...might run over it in a future post...luckily it leaves me enough free time to do the really important stuff like this

  18. #38
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Yeah had a look at that...a modeler could be a problem. In the absence of one we will just use existing units to get Georgia up and running sure.
    Thrones of Britannia with the Warcrap engine? Nooooo! haha. You should have just played the Britannia version in Kingdoms But actually how is it?

    I keep meaning to put in my application to work for CA as a beta tester or something. I was offered the role back in 2008 to work on Empire but was too busy, bad decision. I can do any era from ancient up to modern, pick any weapon system from any era and I'll be able to tell you about it off the top of my head, right down to weapon calibers, tactical employment etc, aerial, naval - WW1, II, wooden walls, fighters, modern AAMS, PGMs, radar systems etc. You would be very interested in some of the stuff my company is working on (my MS thesis way back in 1990 was in AI, neural networks, which are huge now)...might run over it in a future post...luckily it leaves me enough free time to do the really important stuff like this
    given your expertise, you've probably worked on the AI, have you?

    I'll report on the Thrones. Actually, I have high expectations as the things important for me seem to be very much developed (maybe with the exception of the buildings)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    In particular, Iím looking for:

    • A challenging game: I do everything I can to win. I donít give the AI money for free, I donít turtle just for turtling Ė I turtle because itís a superiors strategy. The need to make choices: there shouldnít be easy choices and obvious solutions, everything should come at a price so every action should be well thought-out.
    • A feeling of ďgaming a story as it was in the books on historyĒ: the armies, the cities, the generals, the rebels, the crusades, the deaths, the civil wars and family feuds Ė everything should be there. Fast conquests could be possible but at a heavy risk of falling apart.
    • Management of the faction: investing in the buildings, keep an order, safeguarding the borders) to be an equally important goal of the game as the conquest. I'm a Civilization-raised type of person (I mean: Civ 1 of 1991) that means I'm a devoted builder.
    • An interesting development of the traits. The characters should take traits and ancillaries based on their actions. The traits should be historical (reflect the middle-agesí reality according to our best knowledge of history), meaningful (each should be relevant for the gameplay), logical (eg. they cycle-of-life: young and middle-aged generals get the traits fast, but in the old age they're losing them; as a result the oldest generals should not be the best, but those of 30-50 old for fighting and 40-60 for governorships), producing consistent personalities (one general should not have completely contradictory traits).
    • The relevance and interplay of various mechanisms in the game: everything should have consequences, no chrome just for the sake of chrome. Interactive events are woven into the fabric of the game, the scripts should have an impact on the traits, the traits should condition the options for the player of using a particular general etc.
    • Battles that are played to win, not easy or based on exploits. Especially, Iím looking for the BAI behaving reasonably given the pace of the battles (in some mods itís faster, in some slower). I think the battles are an exciting part of the game that makes the Total War games different from, say, Europa Universalis type of the games.

  19. #39
    Libertus
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    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    Please also upload mod to mediafire.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Release within 2-3 days

    'given your expertise, you've probably worked on the AI, have you?'
    No I haven't but I would like to, especially the battlefield AI. We are working on something provisionally titled 'Gamebrain' that either bolts on to or entirely supplants the existing AI on any particular game.It uses Neural Networks and Tensor Flow technology. You give it the game rule set then it generates thousands of scenarios and according to some kind of metric where it 'wins' or improves it reinforces or discards what it learned in that particular iteration. Essentially it plays against itself - using similar tech such a system can learn to play at Masters level in chess in less than 24 hours from zero start. The latest demonstration of its power was when it beat Lee Seedol, the world Go champion, in multiple games where it pulled novel moves no human would ever have thought of - that was not predicted to happen for 10-15 years.

    Will be interested to read your Thrones report. The reviews I've read so far say it gets dull pretty fast unfortunately I find the setting a bit boring because there is very little development in weapons, armor or tactics in this time period.

    'Please also upload mod to mediafire.'
    Why, what's wrong with Mega.nz? Also not keen on doing another 19GB upload.




    Last edited by Point Blank; September 14, 2018 at 09:18 AM.

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