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Thread: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

  1. #1

    Default What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    As the thread says what happened with diplamacy after new patch? I played four times as Gwined and everybody betrayed me. Its literraly unplayable. After some time everybody declare war at me even my allies. Declaration of friendships mean anything now, you can negotiate friendshit or defensive pact in one turn and they will declare war to you in second turn. Do you have same experiance now or is it just because of legendary campaing?
    Thanks for reply

  2. #2
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    ...Legendary campaign. AI is always eager to get on player. What is usually working for me is concentrate on one faction with good trait like dependable,defensive..., usually somebody with smaller military power than you and keep with him for long term. Actually having multiple allies is far worse option than having just one. Why? It is far more likely that AIs will start some wars and you will be dragged into them, in case of complex relations between factions, you will end up like having war with everybody for whatever reason....some will be paid to join wars and are happy to do so, unreliable ally, AI will gang up if you are common enemy... and you will have much harder times to end the wars basically everybody hates you...
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  3. #3

    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    I agree but it basically works for every legendary campaing. My feeling is that after patch nobody cares about pacts between factions. Now everybody can declare war to you. Before you were rarelly attack by your allies. First they cancelled friendship with you then attacked. Now they dont care. I dont like it

  4. #4
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    hmmmm i had not started legendary campaign after patch, so honestly it could be really some bad modifier aka bug... Will try legendary in ToB it after finishing current shogun 2 campaign
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

  5. #5

    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Two days ago I have started new campaing on WH/WH and I had same issues. One turn we have declared friendship and in two rounds they declared war to me. I undesrtand when somobody declare war to who has bad relationships with me but now 80 percent who declare war to me has friendship declared with me and good releationships. One time I paid 7000 for defensive alliance and next turn they attacked me. I didnt noticed acting like this before patch. I was even playing beta version of patch and everything was ok. What do you think about that? Do you like it?

  6. #6

    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    I dunno, played Gwinned on vh and everything was fine. Except that people did not wanted to become my vassals like never. Even if I pay them 100000 and otherwise can wipe them out in 1 turn.
    Try to start strong and run around like crazy, burn down, make them fear you. Do not do too many friendship declarations, cause this messes up diplomacy in the long run.
    When your strength rating is 5 or higher even major powers do not want to mess with you. I don't play legendary, but sure this should work on very hard at least.

  7. #7
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    hmmmm i had not started legendary campaign after patch, so honestly it could be really some bad modifier aka bug... Will try legendary in ToB it after finishing current shogun 2 campaign
    That's what I call dedication.

  8. #8
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winco_SVK View Post
    Two days ago I have started new campaing on WH/WH and I had same issues. One turn we have declared friendship and in two rounds they declared war to me. I undesrtand when somobody declare war to who has bad relationships with me but now 80 percent who declare war to me has friendship declared with me and good releationships. One time I paid 7000 for defensive alliance and next turn they attacked me. I didnt noticed acting like this before patch. I was even playing beta version of patch and everything was ok. What do you think about that? Do you like it?
    I've experienced it also in a H/H Circenn campaign. The AI doesn't care about alliances or friendship if you're a neighbour. On the other hand - the side that hated me never attacked. I admit there's something very wrong with the diplomatic AI.
    In general, the AI is underperforming, I think even for the TW low standards. I've seen much better behaviour in the ATW.
    What I like though it that you can have smaller battles - not always 20 vs. 20, or two full-stacks againts two other (or worse, as seen in the pic below)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  9. #9

    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    I finished a campaign yesterday with the new update and I played Circenn and I think the only agreements I got where DoF and MA with Strat Clut at the very beginning and at the end with West Seax so I could get down to finish off the Normaunds for the final victory condition. I was able to get some diplomatic marriages which give a massive bonus to your diplomacy score but that didn't seem to make much difference for getting any other treaty.

    I honestly don't think NAPs, DOFs or positive relations even factor in when it comes to the AI declaring war on you, I think these initial treaties are just stepping stones to further treaties like trade or military access and so on. It seems to me the biggest factors that the AI weighs on declaring war on you is your strength rating vs its own and perhaps how many enemies you have, and how many enemies they currently have. Perhaps if you have an undefended border with them it makes them more likely to attack.

  10. #10
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fest View Post
    I finished a campaign yesterday with the new update and I played Circenn and I think the only agreements I got where DoF and MA with Strat Clut at the very beginning and at the end with West Seax so I could get down to finish off the Normaunds for the final victory condition. I was able to get some diplomatic marriages which give a massive bonus to your diplomacy score but that didn't seem to make much difference for getting any other treaty.

    I honestly don't think NAPs, DOFs or positive relations even factor in when it comes to the AI declaring war on you, I think these initial treaties are just stepping stones to further treaties like trade or military access and so on.
    This was exactly my observation as well, also playing as Circenn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fest View Post
    It seems to me the biggest factors that the AI weighs on declaring war on you is your strength rating vs its own and perhaps how many enemies you have, and how many enemies they currently have. Perhaps if you have an undefended border with them it makes them more likely to attack.
    It's very difficult to have an undefended border: the armies in the Thrones are scarce (what's very good, as I've described here), the distances are big so your armies are always on the move to another front, there's not military presence benefits so you don't have any incentive to keep them in a province (but sometimes their general - if he's got +PO traits) - so if you've got a border with an AI faction, it will attack you if you're .... and now the question is: what are the other factors? I agree that the strength rating seems to be vital, the other I don't know.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Well it's not easy to have no undefended borders but I used Scoan initially with just a general, a couple of bowmen and a couple of spearmen together with the garrison. I later used Carleol and Bebbanburg in the same way, it's not perfect, I guess it just trying to minimize the chance where possible.

    I find strength rating to be the most consistent one so I try to increase that as quickly as possible, I suppose the better your relations are with your neighbours the better but that's not much of a guarantee from what I've seen.

  12. #12
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: What happened with diplomatic relationships?

    Strength rating is easy part, probably even army presence in vicinity and what is usually working for me, if AI has access to other area. If I´m only neighbor of AI, it will happen sooner or later. If there is any corridor to other enemies, it will happily expand there. Or at least it seems to be the possibility.

    Then two factors probably. If AI has not warlike personality, but dependable and similar traits...it is more eager to keep treaties. Second one is game difficulty. With higher difficulty AI is more aggresive especially towards human player. it is same like army replenishment, agent actions being useless vs AI due to artificially high bonuses from difficulty..(speaking about TW games in general not ToB now)

    What is working for me is keep war with some factions and force allies to join the wars. Having common enemies, AI will forget to betray me
    DMR: (R2) (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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