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Thread: Why are spears in RC so bad?

  1. #21
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Why are spears in RC so bad?

    I've recently visited one Polish museum with the medieval weapons and what struck me was that the "militia" spearmen were usually equipped with the axes as well. This reminds me the SSHIP system where you can have a militia unit with axes (it happens to be better in attack but worse in defense, iirc) and another with the spears (better on defense, but killing slowly). I think it should be done in a different way: one unit but with spears as a primary weapon and axes as the secondary.
    What are your, PB, thoughts about it? (well, I don't know, fe, the mechanics of switching from primary to secondary weapons - what's the delay, when the units do it with player pressing Alt etc.).

  2. #22

    Default Re: Why are spears in RC so bad?

    Units change weapons depending on their strike distances as definedin the skeleton file. The problem with doing that with spears is that they are still relatively short range as compared to say pikes, and its therefore a bit ‘fuzzy’ as to just when they should switch - I suspect you might see a constant schizophrenic swapping as combat ebbs back and forth. Another issue is that they don’t switch weapons intelliigently, for example they might defend against a cav charge with spears then switch to axes once the cav are in amongst them. If you had something like Hoplites the last thing you want is for them to be dropping their spears as soon as things get intimate.

    Changing weapons also takes a little time, they have to ‘draw’ them, then get into the correct guard stance etc for the new one. Finally, there is only one heat, defense, mass, x-radius, unit spacing, attribute set (eg frighten_mounted when wielding a spear) and shield value per unit - in RC all those things vary by weapon.

    Note that in M2TW, spears in the second rank can attack if targets are available and they can reach. In RC their formation values help, with those men being close in behind the men in front, as do the animations (not so much for units of less than Average quality).

    I have tweaked spears a little further in the next patch, along with other things.
    Last edited by Point Blank; October 08, 2018 at 09:03 AM.

  3. #23
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Why are spears in RC so bad?

    Thanks, it clears things up. Actually, I'd expected that there're things I'm not aware of that make militia with spears-and-axes a non-sense unit - and now it's confirmed.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Why are spears in RC so bad?

    RE: Swords vs. Spears, remember that Knights were lancers first and foremost. If they had to advance on foot they didn't drop the lance, they often just cut it short if need be and advanced with it. The Armored Swordsmen is IMO ahistorical, these troops wouldn't have dispensed with a longer-ranged standoff weapon like a spear.
    ORANGE MAN BAD

  5. #25

    Default Re: Why are spears in RC so bad?

    True for some knights, but in the High Era eg such as in the Crusades the sword was still the signature knightly weapon.
    In later years they tended to substitute the spear or 1H sword for a polearm like a poleaxe or halberd, or maybe an estoc.

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