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Thread: Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

  1. #81
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    I don't know if we ever made this public, but it was definitely intended to be.

    Codex FOTE

  2. #82

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Gunny View Post
    I don't know if we ever made this public, but it was definitely intended to be.

    Codex FOTE
    It is public for years now . Anyway it doesn't explain anyhow why IDs were changed (someone did it manually, that's hell of work for no point really). Actually i can't say FotE files are less messed in fact than Attila were. There are many decisions hard to be explained to me that were made inside files. I will leave it the way it has been done but if possible i will replace some mostly arguable ways of creating data - like using BIG letters while all Total War games prefer small, that was one of the reasons FotE main pack is so bugged. The same goes about inconsistent using "_" as prefix which creates another mess. Many work to do even if i repaired many things in hotfix.

  3. #83
    'Gunny's Avatar Überrock über alles
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    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Oh good lol, I haven't been too active for a while. You're not wrong either, we definitely half assed in some places and I can't tell you why some decisions were made, especially now 4 years later. I can definitely tell you that the Ids were changed by Ahiga, as he did most of the legwork on the changes to the rosters. Can't really say why he would have changed the IDs, if he ever gets back on steam I will let you know.

  4. #84

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Gunny View Post
    Oh good lol, I haven't been too active for a while. You're not wrong either, we definitely half assed in some places and I can't tell you why some decisions were made, especially now 4 years later. I can definitely tell you that the Ids were changed by Ahiga, as he did most of the legwork on the changes to the rosters. Can't really say why he would have changed the IDs, if he ever gets back on steam I will let you know.
    Ahiga is on PM with me, so i can ask him as well . I can't blame you for little mess inside data, that's obvious while few ppl work on the same files, but we all should for abandoning matter in halfway .

  5. #85

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Cgma View Post
    Currently i would be appreciated if you play as any not roman faction to confirm whether that crash bug on WRE/ERE exists as i honestly cannot duplicate it. It needs playing basic mod structure without any other mods that were not listed in collection.
    Sure, just started a new campaign as Norse.

    Remember how I wrote that my previous campaign crashes on ERE turn? I was fooling around with some other mods then reloaded this combination. And the crash is gone. Previously I was able to reproduce it 6-7 times in a row. Don't know what happened.

  6. #86

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Sure, just started a new campaign as Norse.

    Remember how I wrote that my previous campaign crashes on ERE turn? I was fooling around with some other mods then reloaded this combination. And the crash is gone. Previously I was able to reproduce it 6-7 times in a row. Don't know what happened.
    According to latest tests done on Steam site with ppl who reported crashes it seems that they had issue with graphic options in game that caused CTD, not a mod, but still would be appreciated for playing around.

  7. #87

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Sadly and unfortunately i must confirm that game crashes because of addon of so many units to WRE and ERE. Currently it crashes both in custom battles and in campaign if AI is handling ERE or WRE or both.
    I'm looking into any solution to this problem and campaign is probably possible to fix with separate submods for ERE and WRE which can be choosen regarding which faction you gonna play - playing as ERE/WRE or both in multi doesn't cause problems. There gonna be moved into submods most auxilia palatina units as they are lesser lost than any other units, but it seems custom battle crash fix doesn't help for custom battles so i must remove as many units as it is needed to keep that playable - most probably i remove them all (since custom battle limit is 70 units per faction and mentioned fix doesn't really help.

    EDIT: Custom battle crash was actually fixed by removing bunch of new units from ERE and WRE roster to keep it playable by AI. I will try to investigate later why custom battle crash fix doesn't work for EP+FotE Revised.

    EDIT2: Campaign issue is also fixed with making additional submods for extra units:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1646268443
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1646269860


    Using both submods for ERE and WRE needs testing but currently all saves i have which normally CTDed now work with both submods.

    Last edited by Cgma; February 06, 2019 at 03:44 AM.

  8. #88

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    My Saxon campaign is developing pretty good. However, I am concerned that there is no message after I killed Atilla the first time. I don't remember exactly, should there be a message about wounding and coming back? I made double sure that he is killed by my troops, yet nothing happened.
    Screenshot: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1652732504

    Also, concerning bows and riders, here is a part I took from Peter Heather: The Fall of the Roman Empire. Short story - they had an amazing advantage in range and acuracy over European armies. Here it goes:
    "The key to Hunnic success seems to lie in one particular detail whose significance has not been fully recognized. Both the Huns and the Scythians used the composite bow, then, but whereas Scythian bows measured about 80 centimetres in length, the few Hunnic bows found in graves are much larger, measuring between 130 and 160 centimetres. The point here, of course, is that size generates power. However, the maximum size of bow that a cavalryman can comfortably use is only about 100 centimetres. The bow was held out, upright, directly in front of the rider, so that a longer bow would bang into the horse’s neck or get caught up in the reins. But – and here is the answer to our question – Hunnic bows were asymmetric. The half below the handle was shorter than the half above, and it is this that allowed the longer bow to be used from horseback. It involved a trade-off, of course. The longer bow was clumsier and its asymmetry called for adjustments in aim on the part of the archer. But the Huns’ asymmetric 130-centimetre bow generated considerably more hitting power than the Scythians’ symmetrical 80-centimetre counterpart: unlike the Scythians’, it could penetrate Sarmatian armour while keeping the archer at a safe distance and not impeding his horsemanship.
    .....
    In 1753 the best shot before the modern era, Hassan Aga, launched an arrow a grand total of 584 yards and 1 foot (roughly 534 metres). He was a renowned champion, but distances of well over 400 metres were commonplace. This bow’s power, too, is awesome. From just over 100 metres’ distance, a Turkish bow will drive an arrow over 5 centimetres through a piece of wood 1.25 centimetres thick. Because of its asymmetry and the fact that infantry archers can plant their feet firmly, unlike their mounted counterparts, we need to knock something off these performance figures when thinking about what they tell us about the fourth century. The Huns didn’t have stirrups, but used heavy wooden saddles which allowed the rider to grip with the leg muscles and thus create a firm firing platform. Nonetheless, Hunnic horse archers would probably have been effective against unarmoured opponents such as the Goths from distances of 150 to 200 metres, and against protected Alans from 75 to 100 metres. These distances were more than enough to give the Huns a huge tactical advantage, which, as Roman sources report, they exploited to the full."

  9. #89

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Also, concerning bows and riders, here is a part I took from Peter Heather: The Fall of the Roman Empire. Short story - they had an amazing advantage in range and acuracy over European armies. Here it goes:
    "The key to Hunnic success seems to lie in one particular detail whose significance has not been fully recognized. Both the Huns and the Scythians used the composite bow, then, but whereas Scythian bows measured about 80 centimetres in length, the few Hunnic bows found in graves are much larger, measuring between 130 and 160 centimetres. The point here, of course, is that size generates power. However, the maximum size of bow that a cavalryman can comfortably use is only about 100 centimetres. The bow was held out, upright, directly in front of the rider, so that a longer bow would bang into the horse’s neck or get caught up in the reins. But – and here is the answer to our question – Hunnic bows were asymmetric. The half below the handle was shorter than the half above, and it is this that allowed the longer bow to be used from horseback. It involved a trade-off, of course. The longer bow was clumsier and its asymmetry called for adjustments in aim on the part of the archer. But the Huns’ asymmetric 130-centimetre bow generated considerably more hitting power than the Scythians’ symmetrical 80-centimetre counterpart: unlike the Scythians’, it could penetrate Sarmatian armour while keeping the archer at a safe distance and not impeding his horsemanship.
    That is something to be considered in the nearest future, however i have read quite opposite arguments basing on descriptions of known battles vs. Huns which took mostly other conclusions: in fact Huns were pretty weak but they used mass horse archer harrassment of flanks with their horsemen, a tactic unknown to european people (while when they attacked Sassanids they got big kick in the balls very fast). it also includes mass burning of settlements which terrorized tribals in the east, but when finally history came to real challenge like Battle of Chalons and Nedao, when Huns were abandoned by most valuable allies/subjects it appeared they can't stand any organized forces.

  10. #90

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Maybe that can be simulated by giving them awesome range, damage and speed, while giving them a bit less armor? Like, make them glass cannons which are great when fighting behind an infantry line (allied Goths), but not being able to stand up in the proper melee? Right now, they are just tanks. I can paste more description about Hunnic warfare from the book I quoted above.

    I noticed that the Nokkors have bows, but only 3 ammunition, it's quite weird.

    I killed Atilla the second time (I also have a screenshot), but still no message about him being wounded.

    Oh, and I got a CTD again on ERE turn. I installed the mods for ERE and WRE units into the ongoing campaign. I'll give it a try without those mods enabled.

  11. #91

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Oh, and I got a CTD again on ERE turn. I installed the mods for ERE and WRE units into the ongoing campaign. I'll give it a try without those mods enabled.
    It seems it is not mod specific, but my patch and latest update on ERE rebels. On my test save which CTDed before splitting auxilias into submods i got also CTD after last umpdate of patch but simple reloading save without doing anything else made turn possible to be passed without CTD. So it is either random engine or game must clean cache what is expressed with CTD. As i said try just to reload save if crashed before you deactivate any mod or submod as it seems not needed.

  12. #92

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    I noticed that the Nokkors have bows, but only 3 ammunition, it's quite weird.
    At first - you shouldn't meet Nokkors in the campaign as they are not allowed for any faction, so check all outsource mods you use as probably one of them is enabling them. For the second they are bugged from vanilla - their bow and 3 arrows is simply vannila so it is sure that some of your mods breaks the game. Again deactivate all mods that conflict with FotE or my mod, cause of the crash might also be the same = unchecked mods.

  13. #93

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    The game worked when I took extra units mod out.

    I'm quite careful about which mods I use. This is my list in exact order:

    A request for Atilla updates
    Loyalty penalty from offices fixed
    Fote standard icons pack
    Fote fix for maga
    Ep fote mod
    Fote garrisonfix
    Fote 53fix
    Ai will colonize
    Fall of the Eagles 1-4
    Europa Perdita
    Fixedlightning
    Maga
    Voices of rome

    So the only ones that are not in your collection are A request for Atilla updates, Loyalty penalty from offices fixed, Fixedlightning and Voices of rome. None of those should be affecting units.

  14. #94

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    The game worked when i took extra units out
    Can you try to reload that crashing save instead of deactivation? It is important to me for bug hunting process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    A request for Atilla updates
    It is not a mod, deactivate it and add to "favorites" rather.
    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Loyalty penalty from offices fixed
    Nothing wrong i believe, but there is nothing wrong with loyalty in FotE, so i assume you need a bit of cheating .
    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Fote standard icons pack
    It is meant ONLY for pure FotE, deactivate it with my mod.

    Still there is something not right with your installation as you shouldn't see Nokkors by any means. Not sure what then.

  15. #95

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Unfortunately no, I don't have that save anymore, it was a quicksave, I suppose.

    About loyalty, I can't figure out "office given to subordinate" penalty, which is why I use the mod.

    I re-enabled the units mod and I'll see if it crashes again.

    Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed. They are there on the campaign map with this combination of mods still, in 5 different armies. You can see them in the screenshot above. Oddly, they are not present in Custom battle (but Shamans of the Eternal Sky are).

  16. #96

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Unfortunately no, I don't have that save anymore, it was a quicksave, I suppose.
    Actually i have found cause of CTDs, it was patch, there is something wrong with corrected rebels file so i removed it for good. I will try to fix rebels via my mod instead. So actually there should be no problems about using submods for ERE and WRE (as they conflicted somehow with patch files which were removed now).

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    About loyalty, I can't figure out "office given to subordinate" penalty, which is why I use the mod.
    it is surely working , it is just another indication (including lack of Attila warnings) that there is something wrong with installation. Check "data" folder if all mods are placed there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed.
    You just get vanilla unit as it is, no idea how or why, they are just disabled.

  17. #97

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    Nokkors have 68 attack, I just noticed. They are there on the campaign map with this combination of mods still, in 5 different armies. You can see them in the screenshot above. Oddly, they are not present in Custom battle (but Shamans of the Eternal Sky are).
    Ah, i know how you get them, i missed them in the script from vanilla game .

  18. #98

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    I have another end turn CTD - on WRE turn, the camera switches to their port city (Palma) which is under siege, a naval unit approaches (seemingly out of nowhere) and the game crashes. Reproduced it six times.

    What do you want me to do?

  19. #99

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinarius View Post
    What do you want me to do?
    It is ok, no needs, i think i know what's up with CTDs now.

  20. #100

    Default Re: [Submod] Fall of the Eagles + Europa Perdita revised

    My game still crashes in the same place, regardless of the unit mods being on or off. Since I killed Atilla three times with no message at all, I think I'll close that campaign.

    Did you perhaps have time to look into Atilla script? Three times I killed him in battle, there was no message about enemy general being dead. And no message afterwards about wounding him.

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