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Thread: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

  1. #61

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Maybe it's time for the emasculated Canadian PM to stop slighting Trump every chance he gets and actually focus on political realities.


  2. #62
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Maybe it's time for the emasculated Canadian PM to stop slighting Trump every chance he gets and actually focus on political realities.
    Um Trump fondled King Salman's ball. He repeats whatever he's told to by the last Alpha he met: Vlad says "no Russian interference" and Trump parrots that. Pompeo says 'say the reverse of that" and he does: good boy! Bottom much?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  3. #63

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Cynically speaking the Saudis are less capable of challenging the US than Russia. Riyadh has had to rely on Washington for survival and pays for the privilege. Russia is a US geopolitical and economic enemy long term. There's zero chance of rapprochement.
    Not really. Russia isn't a longterm enemy, its just that we have enemies of American people like corporate mass media and the corrupt financial oligarchy that benefit from it, hence conspiracy theories about Trump's collusion with Russia or paranoid ramblings when CNN and its ilk are trying to present Russia as a big boogeyman. Traditionally, Russia and US were allies (until Russia hit its head in 1917 and contacted egalitarian socialism). But pragmatically US would gain more from friendship with Russia, then from friendship with Saudis, who killled thousands of Americans by flying planes into WTC building and are a huge liability.
    Israel is a dependable ally in the Arab world, why would the US throw them over to buddy up with an enemy like Russia?
    Israel is also a liability for the US and more of a parasite. US gains little aside from being dragged into pointless wars or spending its taxpayer cash with no benefit for taxpayer. Israel is an enemy of US to a much bigger extent then Russia.
    I don't see why you rage about Trudeau, he is a popular politician so obviously he;'s covered with slime and nasty compromises, but there's plenty uglier, and even some more hypocritical. Trump for example, way uglier, every bit as hypocritical, and a slave of the Saudis in word and deed. I mean he nearly tweeted up an actual war with Qatar because they're not terrorist enough for the scum in Riyadh. WTF?
    Trudeau is far from popular politician (making Harper look like a genius, that's pretty much his only accomplishments) he got the job because of his daddy (who was also objectively one of the worst PMs in our history). Trump is actually more qualified then his previous 3-4 predecessors. US has troops stationed on Saudi soil, so he has to work around that. Trudeau was just buddies with them because they gave them cash, hence why "feminist" and LGBT supporter looked the other way when Saudis beheaded gays or treated women like they were animals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Um Trump fondled King Salman's ball. He repeats whatever he's told to by the last Alpha he met: Vlad says "no Russian interference" and Trump parrots that. Pompeo says 'say the reverse of that" and he does: good boy! Bottom much?
    There is already a reservation for people who believe in this conspiracy theory here.
    After it was debunked, the whole point was to keep that thread open so that people who watched too much CNN wouldn't bring this nonsense anywhere else on the forum
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; August 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  4. #64

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trudeau got the job because of his daddy
    It's nothing new. Kennedy got his job because of his daddy.Bush Jr. got his job because of his daddy.Hillary got the popular vote in the US elections because of his husband.John Quincy Adams the 6th president, got his job because of his father,John Adams (the 2nd president).The 23rd president of the US was the grandson of the 9th president.The 4th president and the 12th president were second cousins.Franklin Delano Roosevelt (the 32nd president) was a fifth cousin of Theodore Roosevelt, the 26th president.
    In fact,FDR was distantly related to a total of 11 U.S. presidents, 5 by blood and 6 by marriage.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Not really. Russia isn't a longterm enemy, its just that we have enemies of American people like corporate mass media and the corrupt financial oligarchy that benefit from it, hence conspiracy theories about Trump's collusion with Russia or paranoid ramblings when CNN and its ilk are trying to present Russia as a big boogeyman.
    Your argument is "a century of animosity between the US and Russia isn't a long term enmity" and "its only because of Socialism"? I'm sorry that's laughable, the Russian Tsars supported the US as a rival to the British, not as friends, and Russia has supported US enemies in the critical oil regions of the Arab world even after the fall of Communism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Traditionally, Russia and US were allies (until Russia hit its head in 1917 and contacted egalitarian socialism). But pragmatically US would gain more from friendship with Russia, then from friendship with Saudis, who killled thousands of Americans by flying planes into WTC building and are a huge liability.
    That's a naive observation. The US needs oil, and the Saudi regime can't exist without US support. Russia can exist without US support, and has many points of competition with the US. Sourcing oil from Russia would place the US economy in enemy hands.

    The 9/11 attacks were a disgrace and an outrage by a criminal state. The reason the US didn't turn Riyadh into a glass puddle is because the Saudis were incapable of repeating the operation. it makes more sense for US politicians to continue friendship with these evil turds because they pay fat bribes, supply the oil and don't dare oppose US policy openly,

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Israel is also a liability for the US and more of a parasite. US gains little aside from being dragged into pointless wars or spending its taxpayer cash with no benefit for taxpayer. Israel is an enemy of US to a much bigger extent then Russia.
    Israel is a stable democracy in the richest oil region giving US immense power projection, as well as a reliable cats paw for dirty ops., and best of all a conservative christian vote pinata.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trudeau is far from popular politician (making Harper look like a genius, that's pretty much his only accomplishments) he got the job because of his daddy (who was also objectively one of the worst PMs in our history). Trump is actually more qualified then his previous 3-4 predecessors. US has troops stationed on Saudi soil, so he has to work around that. Trudeau was just buddies with them because they gave them cash, hence why "feminist" and LGBT supporter looked the other way when Saudis beheaded gays or treated women like they were animals.
    Trudeau was elected and has held his job in a system far less forgiving of chumps than the US one. It would take impeachment to sack Trump, whereas Trudeau is one no confidence emotion away from a pink slip every day parliament sits.

    I dislike political dynasties, and I assume Trudeau is a typical politician covered in slime (and perhaps some legacy slime from his dad). Please don't pretend Trump is somehow better.

    As for Trump's qualifications, he's a reality TV star, he has experience in wearing make up and yelling at cameras. He was humiliated by Putin in Reykjavik, and has repeatedly stumbled in foreign policy. In domestic matters he makes insane promises he cannot keep, dogwhistles racists and other bigoted scum, and reveals his utter ignorance of basic matters like supermarket shopping. He's qualified as a New York liberal frat boy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    There is already a reservation for people who believe in this conspiracy theory here.
    After it was debunked, the whole point was to keep that thread open so that people who watched too much CNN wouldn't bring this nonsense anywhere else on the forum
    I don't think Trump takes Putin's orders he's just mentally weak and believes what Alphas tell him. How else can you explain his embarrassing flip flops? And he's triggered every time someone even mentions Russia. It looks like he's feeling guilty, but I think its more likely shame at his weakness. I mean he only scraped over the line on a technicality against a tottering and unlikable Clinton using fake news, Russian bots and playing a very ugly game.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  6. #66

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    the Russian Tsars supported the US as a rival to the British, not as friends,
    And Roosevelt supported US help for Russia and humiliated Churchill,he even wanted to discuss the (post war)future of Balkans,Finland and Poland with Stalin, without Churchill around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Israel is a democracy
    Israel is officially the nation state of the Jews, where religion is used as a mobilizing ideology to recruit members to the (illegal) settlements in occupied Palestinian Territories.
    In my opinion, one of the essential characteristics of a democratic regime is the separation of religion/church and state.

    The reason the US didn't turn Riyadh into a glass puddle is because .
    ...the oil makes miracles.The Persian Gulf: Understanding the American Oil Strategy
    On a side note, S. Arabia is the biggest buyer of US arms.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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  7. #67

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Your argument is "a century of animosity between the US and Russia isn't a long term enmity" and "its only because of Socialism"? I'm sorry that's laughable, the Russian Tsars supported the US as a rival to the British, not as friends, and Russia has supported US enemies in the critical oil regions of the Arab world even after the fall of Communism.
    Neither Russia nor Iran are America's "natural" enemies. US has conflict with the latter purely due to Israeli lobby, which is the source of the problem.
    That's a naive observation. The US needs oil, and the Saudi regime can't exist without US support. Russia can exist without US support, and has many points of competition with the US. Sourcing oil from Russia would place the US economy in enemy hands.

    The 9/11 attacks were a disgrace and an outrage by a criminal state. The reason the US didn't turn Riyadh into a glass puddle is because the Saudis were incapable of repeating the operation. it makes more sense for US politicians to continue friendship with these evil turds because they pay fat bribes, supply the oil and don't dare oppose US policy openly,
    I'm pretty sure that funding a variety of terrorist groups around the world does constitute continuing behavior that they've shown when they killed thousands of US citizens. Russia and US would mutually benefit with each others help. US gains very little from friendship with Saudis, mainly due to negative influence of corporations in US, hence why latter, again, is the problem.
    Israel is a stable democracy in the richest oil region giving US immense power projection, as well as a reliable cats paw for dirty ops., and best of all a conservative christian vote pinata.
    Israel doesn't have much resources, and its stability is the result of support, mainly out of US citizen pocket, which again, US population gains nothing out of, except for its troops fighting unnecessary wars for Israeli interests. Again, Israel is to US is what a parasite is to a host. If US would stop supporting Israel, it would lose nothing. And people who support that fore religious reasons wouldn't be difficult to convince that allying with Russia is very Christian too.
    Trudeau was elected and has held his job in a system far less forgiving of chumps than the US one. It would take impeachment to sack Trump, whereas Trudeau is one no confidence emotion away from a pink slip every day parliament sits.

    I dislike political dynasties, and I assume Trudeau is a typical politician covered in slime (and perhaps some legacy slime from his dad). Please don't pretend Trump is somehow better.

    As for Trump's qualifications, he's a reality TV star, he has experience in wearing make up and yelling at cameras. He was humiliated by Putin in Reykjavik, and has repeatedly stumbled in foreign policy. In domestic matters he makes insane promises he cannot keep, dogwhistles racists and other bigoted scum, and reveals his utter ignorance of basic matters like supermarket shopping. He's qualified as a New York liberal frat boy.
    Where Trump had to struggle, Trudeau had his position handed to him. I mean we are talking about a politician who was groomed from early youth to be a career politician and has qualifications of Peggy Hill. Trump, on the other hand, is still an outsider, although a rich and powerful outsider, hence all the whining from corporate media.
    I don't think Trump takes Putin's orders he's just mentally weak and believes what Alphas tell him. How else can you explain his embarrassing flip flops? And he's triggered every time someone even mentions Russia. It looks like he's feeling guilty, but I think its more likely shame at his weakness. I mean he only scraped over the line on a technicality against a tottering and unlikable Clinton using fake news, Russian bots and playing a very ugly game.
    He won against neoliberal establishment which owns most corporate media, and he is still shown less fails then Obama or Bush, let alone Bill Clinton. And again, this thread isn't about Trump at all. The issue is rather comedic relationship between self-proclaimed "progressive" manchild that we have for a Prime Minister and his falling out with his fundamentalist buddies.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Neither Russia nor Iran are America's "natural" enemies. US has conflict with the latter purely due to Israeli lobby, which is the source of the problem.
    I'm sorry that's a ridiculous assertion. The Shah was friendly to Israel, US opposition to Iran is due to lost oil concessions and Israel's hostility is because Iran mines Islamic Leadership points by sponsoring terrorism against Israel. Israel did not start hostilities with Iran, the Ayatollahs caused that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I'm pretty sure that funding a variety of terrorist groups around the world does constitute continuing behavior that they've shown when they killed thousands of US citizens. Russia and US would mutually benefit with each others help. US gains very little from friendship with Saudis, mainly due to negative influence of corporations in US, hence why latter, again, is the problem.
    They gain a secure source of oil and plenty of bribes for certain politicians, and the Saudis get to do what the US tells them (and commit terrorist acts for Islamic leadership brownie points). I agree it'd be lovely for everyone to get along and the Saudis to be punished but in the real world Russian leadership is nasty, so is the US and so is Iran's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Israel doesn't have much resources, and its stability is the result of support, mainly out of US citizen pocket, which again, US population gains nothing out of, except for its troops fighting unnecessary wars for Israeli interests. Again, Israel is to US is what a parasite is to a host. If US would stop supporting Israel, it would lose nothing. And people who support that fore religious reasons wouldn't be difficult to convince that allying with Russia is very Christian too.
    Yeah nah, the Christian Right in the US has a thing for Armageddon and that's not near Moscow. Secure eastern Med ports in Israel are worth a great deal, as is having a local cat's paw with a mad dog doctrine. Israel has a strong media game, not the same as being a parasite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Where Trump had to struggle, Trudeau had his position handed to him. I mean we are talking about a politician who was groomed from early youth to be a career politician and has qualifications of Peggy Hill. Trump, on the other hand, is still an outsider, although a rich and powerful outsider, hence all the whining from corporate media.
    Trudeau had to win an election with more than 25% of the vote and no assistance from Russia. I assume he's scum, but you (and others) keep comparing him to Trump and Don still looks like crap by comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    He won against neoliberal establishment which owns most corporate media, and he is still shown less fails then Obama or Bush, let alone Bill Clinton. And again, this thread isn't about Trump at all. The issue is rather comedic relationship between self-proclaimed "progressive" manchild that we have for a Prime Minister and his falling out with his fundamentalist buddies.
    Trump has bent his knee to the swamp, to the Saudis, even to Putin by agreeing with the Russian version of their highly successful intervention in the 2016 election, and cointradicting his own intel services, all of them.

    I accept on trust that Trudeau is a silver spoon trust fund legacy politician and I don't like like on principle, but excoriating him for some common or garden hypocrisy while bringing up Trump as a paragon is staggering. Trump is a very nasty symptom of a very sick political system. People distrust Hilary Clinton? Good, so do I. Trumps turned out worse, he's incompetent and weak.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #69

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    For the sake of other people reading, I won't break up post with quotes, but will just answer in points:
    - Israel is equally to blame for its hostilities with Iran. Mossad also committed plenty of terrorist attacks, I don't really see that much difference between Mossad or any other active terrorist group in the region. Just one of the sides using same methods.
    - US could use other means to gain Saudi oil, without actually mudding itself by befriending the orks, oh, I mean Saudi "royal family". BTW is this me, or there is very strong similarity between Gulf states and Mordor? Allah is kinda like Sauron, Mecca/Qaaba stone is like Mount Doom, while Riyadh is Barad-Dur fortress?
    - Convincing Christians in US isn't really that difficult, I mean they were convinced to become evangelicals to begin with. But seriously, just feed them same stories, but about Russia. Especially given how Israelis are quite secular, while common enemy here is the Saudi Mordor, Russia would work even better.
    - Trump won election without foreign assistance and even opposing foreign assistance to Clinton. Trudeau won because he had billionaire support and support of the likes of Soros.
    - The Russian version just happens to be.... the correct version. The rest is just imaginative speculation made up by corporate media as a form of damage control. Truth is, Trump turned out to be more competent and professional, the the last 3 of his predecessors.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; August 14, 2018 at 08:59 AM.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    For the sake of other people reading, I won't break up post with quotes, but will just answer in points:
    - Israel is equally to blame for its hostilities with Iran. Mossad also committed plenty of terrorist attacks, I don't really see that much difference between Mossad or any other active terrorist group in the region. Just one of the sides using same methods.
    - US could use other means to gain Saudi oil, without actually mudding itself by befriending the orks, oh, I mean Saudi "royal family". BTW is this me, or there is very strong similarity between Gulf states and Mordor? Allah is kinda like Sauron, Mecca/Qaaba stone is like Mount Doom, while Riyadh is Barad-Dur fortress?
    - Convincing Christians in US isn't really that difficult, I mean they were convinced to become evangelicals to begin with. But seriously, just feed them same stories, but about Russia. Especially given how Israelis are quite secular, while common enemy here is the Saudi Mordor, Russia would work even better.
    - Trump won election without foreign assistance and even opposing foreign assistance to Clinton. Trudeau won because he had billionaire support and support of the likes of Soros.
    - The Russian version just happens to be.... the correct version. The rest is just imaginative speculation made up by corporate media as a form of damage control. Truth is, Trump turned out to be more competent and professional, the the last 3 of his predecessors.
    I'm sorry you're just parroting unsustained nonsense.

    Israeli terrorism is a fact, but it did not bring the Ayatollahs to power.

    Trump is not professional, he's staggeringly inept.

    Russia's version of events is not "true" anymore than LoTR is true. Trump siding with a foreign despot over hus own people is stunning stupidity.

    Any reference to Clinton is a criticism of Trump, he was a Clinton supporter, one of the billionaires you deride. He's not an outsider, he's a pleb tier billionaire who annoyed hacks like Clinton and Bush because he cut out the middleman and did the job of ruling himself instead of bribing a politician.

    You insult the intelligence of US evangelicals but they're the faction that got Trump into power. They like Israel and want a war there. What you suggest would see half of Trump's tiny base disappear, and quite likely get the ugly impeachment train rolling.

    Trudeau may be bad but every point you bring up about him (billionaire connections, hypocrite, gifted his position by daddy) goes double for Trump.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    People give too much importance to these disputes. They are exclusively reserved for domestic consumption, as both governments pretend to be tough, thanks to their superficially uncompromising attitude towards a diplomatically insignificant issue. Incidents like these serve only as convenient pretexts and they never determine actual foreign policy. In a few weeks, everyone will have forgotten about Saudi Arabian activists, just like the bombed school-bus in Yemen, regularly committed wedding massacres and the execution of sheikh al-Nimr, the leader of the Saudi Arab Spring, have already been covered under the rug. Similarly to these misunderstandings, the debate here has been marked by a confusion between geopolitics, ideology and ethics. No matter what some populist presidential candidates claim to manipulate their gullible voters, the prosperity of the Saudi-"Western" alliance is guaranteed for the foreseeable future. From an economic perspective, these two countries enjoy remarkably profitable trade relations and they both have invested immense amounts of money in each other, which means that huge financial interests are dependent on the maintenance of good relations between Riyadh, Ottawa, Washington, Paris and etc. On the contrary, in what concerns the major rival of the Saudi dynasty, Iran, many magnates are still salty at the nationalisation of foreign-dominated industries in Iran and the expulsion of their agents.

    The same conclusion applies to every other aspect, from military affairs to diplomacy. The intelligence agencies closely cooperate with each other to gather information about the activities of common enemies, mainly Iran or even Russia. For obvious reasons, the animosity between Tehran, Moscow and Washington cannot be erased, given their insurmountable conflicts of interests (from investment in Iran to wealth distribution in Afghanistan and Ukrainian imports), so Saudi-American collaboration is here to stay, no matter the ramblings of insincere demagogues and naive Evangelists. Not to mention the fact that Saudi Arabia is one of the most loyal friends of Israel, especially considering the project of the new mega-city in the Red Sea. The only potentially dark spot is the direct and indirect assistance provided by the monarchy and the country's elites to extremists with not particularly positive feelings to anything non-Salafist. However, even that contradiction is not as big as it may seem. As we discuss this topic, al-Qaeda, ISIL and its various affiliates do their best at bleeding Iranians, Russians and their allies in Syria, far more threatening elements for American power in the globe than some ill-disciplined thugs, so, judging from the circumstances, they may prove themselves useful. It may look overly cynical, but that's how geopolitics work, regardless of the misleading influence of some crocodile tears.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    People give too much importance to these disputes. ..ars.
    Can't rep (must spread, other posters lift you games!) but also nearly reported for making sense in the mudpit.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  13. #73

    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    He won against neoliberal establishment which owns most corporate media.
    Trump, with his economic nationalism wants to combine neoliberalism at home with protectionism against foreign competition. And to pay for this military expansion and civilizational war with Islam, he wants massive cuts to social programs like Medicare and Medicaid. According to the fanatical nationalist, EU is a vehicle for German capital. He wants to break the EU, that's the reason why he supports the right-wing populist parties in Europe. According to his agent provocateur in Europe (Bannon) racism and xenophobia is a badge of honor for them.
    Bannon to establish Brussels headquarters, targeting EU election
    Why hasn't Bannon been arrested yet is a mystery to me. I think we should also send an alter ego of Bannon to the States to hijack the upcoming elections (insert irony).
    Last edited by Ludicus; Yesterday at 07:17 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Saudis bravely struggle against Canadian imperialism

    Why shoukd Bannon be arrested? American meddling?
    I accomplish my course

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