[SUBMOD: Virtual Points System] VPS_Alpha_01 [upd: dec.01/19]

[Jake Armitage]

Sure!
Upload the pack when it's ready and I'll put that in OP, so more people can play your beta version.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Not sure that will work . Need extra decay rate . I will have battle every turn for long time.
Did check diplomacy and it adds up a lot .
Could not find decay rate (number) but I found a lot positive updates. Got lost after medals stuff.
There are negative updates but that wont happen until late game. Imperium level requirement to reduce trust from buildings should kick earlier

If I increase trust to 5000 it will take 1000 turns to decay. Trust going only up is problem . Hitting 1000 and stop is not same as hitting 5000.
Script needs to lose min 10 trust per turn

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Dignitary effect is +3 per dignitary . Currently having 3 and they add to much (turn 30 - will see after 10 more turns). After watching every turn what happens . War is always negative. Buffing that could help if we want negative buffs to work.

We need more distrust . Politics is fine place to start.

[Jake Armitage]

Yeah, I changed something for the new testudo version, but, personally, I'm not going to work on libraries now, I (we) have still to decide other things before.

[leonardusius]

Yeah, I changed something for the new testudo version, but, personally, I'm not going to work on libraries now, I (we) have still to decide other things before.

'I (we) have still to decide other things before', that is words of gold. First, a good game/mod must take into account the logic axis to follow and off course the principles. And be consistent. If ones start with realism as the logic axis he will follows a totally different path as ones who choose balance, or playability, or whatever, for example.

[Jake Armitage]

^ Yup

[Sonny WiFiHr]

We need campaign that lasted more than 30 turns. I have some negative trust but recruiting few dignitary will skyrocket trust. Did not even tried to do famous general thing . Impact of agents in army is huge also (famous general).
War is giving -10 or -5. Dignitary in your province +3. If war changed to give -50 you will have better scale and with multiple wars you can loose trust.

Bigger trust levels are good to go with huge penalty to war.

I m playing militaristic faction. We need feedback from civil types . Tweaked few numbers so far and got more dynamic trust rate (test runs only). Need to lock down war penalty to imperium level (same as civil progress)
Negative trust must be better for early game because you will hit 1 if you blitz in early game or if you are involved in multiple wars. Cost of war can be huge and this mod have potential to reflect that.

One victory (+10 or more) should not offset war penalty. War penalty can go higher (-100) skipping few levels can give you trouble.

Militaristic path buff to armies , Increased construction time and construction cost (works better than other buffs)
Civic - debuff to armies , Normal construction cost ( peace is needed for civ progress)

[Jake Armitage]

^ Yep, everyting true.

I think that there will be more than 2 distinctions between faction types (and also custom packs to choose yourself the type, for more possibilities).
Same for faction effect, now 1, one day, probably, 4. In addition 1 "global" effect that combines faction type and the other 4.

This will permit a lot of unpredictability and a lot of little effects that interact together.
I don't want to give player full control of this mod. It will be more a background feature. You can let it flow (it won't kill you, but "affect" you both with bonuses and maluses) or you can micromanage and try to have control on it.
Think about real politics. How can you handle an entire country?:
1) With a lot of work and intelligence (hoping that counterpart will understand and follow you)
2) with the whip (probably through events for the game)
3) with luck (let trust flow and hope for the better)

Most of the time is a combination of the three

I think that specific effects (like food, or upkeep or corruption, anyone) should be considered not as the ones that your people gives you based on a certain level of trust, but the opposite: how YOU change your politics, based on the trust people have of you.
It won't change anything in-game but is important to keep in mind when choosing effect types.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Tested -100. You will need 10+ turns to recover from war. (medium size faction). Multiple frequent wars will demolish trust

--FROM RELATIONSHIPS AND STATUS
WAR_DECLARATION = 100 (this number can't be offset by few victories )

--FROM BATTLING - tweaks here also can produce same effect. Less recovery from victory

It is up to you. 10 for war is to low. Victory is +10. Reducing or increasing will bring balance to the force.

Still using your base

Raised to 200. Diplomacy can offset a lot , dignitary, buildings everything. Famous general and few victories . You will get hit but you can recover - no blitzing in this case. If debuff will be +4 turns per building and 100% cost ( like playing hardcore ) . Giving gifts to other faction adds +2 trust - when you are big it is cakewalk

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Corruption is added as flat number to current corruption. Managed to hit 100% before turn 50 on hardcore. Starting new campaign - without hardcore.
Problem is big empire, it is hard to counter 10% with hardcore . Should not be problem in normal game.

War declaration is 100 - did not know that you can edit script if you open it as text . No more import export. It is solid number and will tweak other stuff . Will edit corruption on go (to match other buffs).

I really unbalanced my version but 1% of corruption and upkeep is good trade off for -2% squalor and banditry. Can upload but this is test version - Max corruption and upkeep is not set properly (3%) vs 10 banditry an squalor (will reduce to 6).
Keeping negative trust buffs values from beta 3 .

[Jake Armitage]

Always upload a pack if you have something interesting.

I've reached something more satisfying for latest Testudo version (has still some issues, mostly from alliances), I will release it for DeI after Testudo 1.4.2 fix packs.
After that I'll seriously begin working on people trust.
Yesterday for the first time (, really I'm serious) I read all the script and noticed that there are some errors in conversion (mostly for decay value) and seen some tecnical potential.
This will be the timeline, I think:
- add custom icon (like change capital)
- divide people trust into 4 different trusts +1 particular "overall trust" on some occasions
- make faction types (more than 2)
- rewrite libraries
- check and change (accordingly with Dresden's work on new character traits) all the other parts (charachter type, popularity, medals, leader events)
- custom events
- buh, something else for sure

After some work, like obtaining a 04 beta patch, i'll write down all my ideas, discuss them with people interested, and check scripting possibilities, with a serious scripter like ivanpera if he's still available.
It will require time. Not so much for technical work, I think, but time to plan it and balance libraries.

The aim is to have a really good submod implementation for DeI, not just a conversion for something that's really cool (praise mr. Prime) but unfinished and unbalanced yet.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Balancing is not problem with 200 trust lost on declaring war. On scale of 1-1100 200 gives better end results and it is more balanced for long run.
Let face it every new year is new war. You can recover from 100 easy but 200 is steady. Characters can't offset 200 (150-250) and you can push your faction on warpath.

Most numbers are fine but trust 11 should be lost easy (50 points) trust 10 (50), trust 9 ( 100 or more). You will not be able to get all goodies easy.
On the other hand bad or middle trust need big numbers .

So new working trust will be ?
Bad
Militaristic
Neutral
Good (civic)

[Jake Armitage]

Dunno yet, have still to understand the correct point of view.

Thank you a lot Sonny (and the others of course) for your professional reports, once I'll start working on this I'm gonna read again all your posts.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Only balancing point that require save game after 100 turns is corruption. I played hardcore and it became dominant debuff. Upkeep will be harsh on normal game but it will be insane on hardcore . Currently using Alternative Economy with most of Trusted bonuses halved.
Will see if I can stay in middle. If I can then they will be restored. Trying to find balance with war time and peace time. Squalor and banditry buff should be costly. Must find fair price .

[Jake Armitage]

^ Someone rep this guy, boys.
If (and I underline if) someday we'll have a well built submod will be thanks to this gamers community and people like Sonny and ivanpera.
A little more fun for tomorrow horizons is never a bad thing.

@sonny. if you're able, prepare a pack before this weekend, so we can put links for 2 versions, mine and yours, and se what people think about.
Think my version will be a really slower one, better for 12tpy style

[reviest]

Sorry for the dumb question, but does this mod affect AI?

[Jake Armitage]

For what I've noticed in game the big part (trust points) don't, general's "features" (balanced, military, statesman) are active. If then they affect someway AI dunno yet.
So I would say no, but I haven't read carefully nor the steam page nor the script.
What can I say is that future versions will mostly stay out from AI, surely until submod reach a good version.

[asher237]

This is looking great. Keep it up! This opens up Infinte RP possibilities

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

For what I've noticed in game the big part (trust points) don't, general's "features" (balanced, military, statesman) are active. If then they affect someway AI dunno yet.
So I would say no, but I haven't read carefully nor the steam page nor the script.
What can I say is that future versions will mostly stay out from AI, surely until submod reach a good version.

That would be better till we have a more complete version of it.

[Sonny WiFiHr]

Current version is fine to use. AI do not get buffs. Only one change is needed. 200 malus for declaring war (for 12 TPY) and 100 for 4 TPY. Need to check join war option. Did not get 200 distrust

Jake Is building better version of FP. . Currently I can't follow what I tweaked. But I m reducing most numbers in script by half. Player who have time to involve in diplomacy will be rewarded - join war can net you quite big trust.
I m focused on exploits right now. Will have to see new buffs.

Agents , diplomacy, trade, buildings (hardcore mod excluded) can net you to much trust. Building will not affect big empire much (they have reduced yield after increased Imperium)
Paired with victories and general in town events (never had time for that - but it is possibility) you can skip few levels in one turn
Trust decay is also low.