Greece to sell historical monuments to pay debts

[Basil II the B.S]

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...ritage-chania/

Archaeologists and sites Guards are up in arms after the Greek Finance Ministry issued a decision ordering the trasnfer several historical sites and buildings, museums, monuments and historical buildings to the Super Privatization Fund.
“They belong de facto to the state and are off any trade,” the Greek Archaeologists Association said in a statement with the title “No to sale off of the country’s monuments” issued on Wednesday.
According to the archaeologists a total of 10, 119 archaeological sites, museums and historical buildings have been transferred to the Privatization Fund, many of them from the area in and around Chania on the island of Crete.

“Monuments are protected by the Constitution, they cannot be transferred or be sold,” the Association said adding that this unprecedented transfer became known when the catalogue of the monuments in and around Chania became public.
Among those monuments and museums in Chania are the new Archaeological Museum, the archaeological museum located inside the St Francis Church, the National Museum Eleftherios Venizelos, the Historical Archive of Crete, several Venetian and Byzantine moats, fortifications and bastions as well as properties where important Minoan architectural remains have been discovered.
“Is Acropolis next?” the Association of Guards at archaeological sites said in an equally angry statement on Thursday adding that also land plot where excavations take place have been transferred. The threaten with strikes.
“Our response will be very tough. Our cultural heritage belongs to all Greeks, no government has the right to negotiate about it or trasnfer ownership,” they said in their statement.
How could this happen?
The Committee assigned with the trasnfer of the state properties to the Privatization Fund is free to act as it likes.
Apparently, the Finance Ministry did not take the necessary measures in time to exempt all these sites, museums and monuments.
Negligence? On purpose? In hope that the illegal transfer will not be flown out?
Fact is that the trasnfer takes place with the ministerial decision.
In a statement issued earlier on Thursday, the Finance Μinistry said “that the ministerial decree for the transfer does not mean that the transfer is automatic as control checks have to be conducted first.”
At the same time it explains that from the trasnfer are exempted sea shores, beaches, areas under natural protection, archaeological sites and pure forest areas, , squares, streets, ports*” and a list of other state properties that have little to do with the issue.
The Finance Ministry says among others that the transfer of public properties to Privatization Fund was one of the 88 lender’s prerequisites for the conclusion of the 4th review of the Greek program.
I remember when finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos issued a transfer order from properties belonging to the National Tourism Organization. The decision of June 2016 had also ordered the transfer for privatization also of the tomb of prominent politician Eleftherios Venizelos.
Meanwhile media in Chania urge local authorities to demand explanations from the central government and take action.
On Friday morning, Culture Ministry Myrsini Zorba admitted the trasnfer and blamed her predecessor Lydia Koniordou for any possible negligence.
“It was wrong not to exclude the monuments in 2016, I suppose Mrs Koniordou had made some arrangement with the financ eministry, but I don’t know,” Zorba told media.
“This is the Law of 2016 that gave to the Privatization funds all properties of the Sate with the exception of declared archaeological sites, Ramsar regions etc. I have no reason to question the legal order of the Finance Ministry, ” Zorba added.
The previous day, the Culture Ministry tried to rebuke the archaeologists but it ultimately could but accept the bitter truth.

The price of being part of the ''cool club'' of the EU. Also natural because the EU official goal now is to destroy national identities, so please Greeks forget your heritage. Soros will gladly buy it to make it part of his private collection.

Greece also lost 1/10 of its population due to emigration as result of ''austerity''. The program is supposed to end in 2054.

Is the price worthy it? It's the equivalent of a defeat in war at this point.

[NosPortatArma]

i don't like the EU, but the debt is greece's own problem. No one forced them to do mismanage their economy? or to join the euro, or even the EU? I don't think blaming globalists apply in this case... maybe greek people got fooled by corrupt greek politicians who knew exactly what they were doing.. but each country gets the politicians it deserves..

[Basil II the B.S]

i don't like the EU, but the debt is greece's own problem. No one forced them to do mismanage their economy? or to join the euro, or even the EU? I don't think blaming globalists apply in this case... maybe greek people got fooled by corrupt greek politicians who knew exactly what they were doing.. but each country gets the politicians it deserves..

Well, technically at this point you are correct. The Greeks entrusted their country to globalist leaning politicians who run it into the ground, then picked the most decent (arguably) alternative (that was Tsipras), who quickly sold them out as well and did this, along with selling the Macedonian heritage.

The only criticism we can give to the EU is that at this point it's being ruthlessly predatory, but then again, Greeks still overwhelmingly trust the EU in approval polls, so it's on them primarily.

[alhoon]

You got me at "Chania". I'll read the local paper tomorrow and see what's this about. To start, I am not 100% against selling the museums to private corporations.

The constitution prohibits the removal of ancient things from Greece, so what would happen is that whomever buys the museums would be paying the staff and getting taxed for the earnings from the visitors. The antiques won't leave Greece. However I don't know if private businesses would offer free tickets to schools. Also, museums make a lot of money for the municipality. I am also not very confident with how things would be handled by the private owners. Generally, I would be happier about this if Greek businessmen bought the museums but then I would have greater doubt about the taxes.
Keep in mind though that municipality employees have been caught stealing the income from cantinas and shops in the museums time and again.

But... without promoting illegal activities, let's say that we have our ways here to stop prospective buyers if we decide so.

I would 100% support selling the museums that are dedicated to modern art and other things that I personally find of very little importance and they had no weight in our history. If the local communities want to preserve their music, songs and traditions (something I 100% respect) they should pay it from their own pocket or have their own businessmen open up such "local interest" museums.

[NorseThing]

IF you want the historic sites to be well maintained and the employees to have good future, privatization is better than the uncertainty of government spending when there is a huge need to cut back. These organizations and the historic sites are what people travel to Greece to see and learn from. If more of this is in responsible private hands, perhaps even some of the artifacts that have moved out of Greece could be returned or on loan to help support the privatization effort to succeed. This need not be the zero sum or absolute loss the opening post fears. In most of the developed countries, there is a healthy mix of government and private working together to preserve, protect and display. I am glad Greece is no staking another step to be fully a part of the 21st century while preserving the heritage of the ancients.

[Sir Adrian]

This is stupid. They're selling their long term revenue streams to pay a short term debt. I've never seen an organization not go into bankruptcy after doing this, never.

IF you want the historic sites to be well maintained and the employees to have good future, privatization is better than the uncertainty of government spending when there is a huge need to cut back. These organizations and the historic sites are what people travel to Greece to see and learn from. If more of this is in responsible private hands, perhaps even some of the artifacts that have moved out of Greece could be returned or on loan to help support the privatization effort to succeed. This need not be the zero sum or absolute loss the opening post fears. In most of the developed countries, there is a healthy mix of government and private working together to preserve, protect and display. I am glad Greece is no staking another step to be fully a part of the 21st century while preserving the heritage of the ancients.

That's what the Romanian government thought in the 1990s when it sold the Roman mines and galleries at Alburnus Maior and it took several alwqsuits and tens of millions of euros to get them back after the owner decided to allow Gold Corporation Canada to strip mine the whole damn thing and poison the area with industrial cyanide. Luckily the UN intervened and Gold Corporation was eventually told to off.

Or when the same government leased the maintenance (and tourism revenue) of Sarmisegetuza to a couple of private entities and by the end of the lease most gold artifacts were gone without a trace while the ruins degraded more than they had in 1700 years.

The only entities who can maintain monuments are governments (local or national) and supra-national organizations like UNESCO. Anybody else will be more interested in profit than preservation.

[fkizz]

The price of globalism

[NorseThing]

The only entities who can maintain monuments are governments (local or national) and supra-national organizations like UNESCO. Anybody else will be more interested in profit than preservation.

Why do you assume that profit and preservation need be mutually exclusive? Government ownership does nothing to assure preservation, just look at the rest of Europe. There are many examples of poor government administration of the cultural heritages. And yes, there are poor examples of the private sector doing the same poor administration of the cultural heritages. Neither is a saint and neither is villain.

I do appreciate your point that a one time sale is no complete solution to the spending problem, but even private corporations do this as a step and a part of a solution. If Greece is serious about resolving their government spending problem, cannot this be a partial part of a solution? Will not this help to at least narrow the interest to balancing spending and revenues for at least these privatized treasures?

We are not talking here about private collections of art being closed off to the public. We are talking here about how to keep these treasures in the public view and making a balanced operating revenues to operating expenditures while at the same time getting a one time infusion to the treasury. Personally, I agree the one time infusion is not worth discussing. That is a government carrot thrown out to help justify privatizing. I would be in favor of these treasures being kept within the government if their preservation and display would not be tied to the general treasury. A well organized privatization can accomplish this. I am open to other solutions.

[Kyriakos]

Re this latest charade, it is about some museums. I hope it will be cancelled. It makes zero sense. But let's not pretend it is new; in all of the south euro countries core industrial and other economic assets have been bought or leased for many many years, as a direct result of the disastrous austerity programs. No one here wants to stay in the stupid euro currency. I'd vote to leave it if there comes a referendum. Staying in the eu is different; currently it makes no sense for Greece to leave the eu, but it makes sense to have never joined the euro or to leave it asap.

[Basil II the B.S]

This is stupid. They're selling their long term revenue streams to pay a short term debt. I've never seen an organization not go into bankruptcy after doing this, never.

This is exactly the point. If there's something whose value doesn't fade, is art and antiquities.

Also the fund is administrated by a German in Luxembourg.

[HannibalExMachina]

goes to show that nationalists would rather blame other countries, rather than fiscally conservative austerity policies. guess they cant very well blame their own ideology, or, Zeus forbid, the glories of capitalism.

[Basil II the B.S]

Austerity is implemented by a leftist government in the name of the globalist elite, mostly because the left would rather align itself with the elite to destroy national identities rather than work for the people.

[HannibalExMachina]

austerity is a product of EU demands. the "globalist elite" is a scapegoat for the right, because it would be rather self-defeating if they just came out and called out what is at work here: global capitalism. i am not surprised the greek right is trying to scapegoat a leftist government that now has to clean up the mess.

is the EU a neo-liberal cluster? sure is, but sadly, it still beats a warring mess run by nationalist bug-eyed crazymen. present company excluded, oc.

[Kyriakos]

austerity is a product of EU demands. the "globalist elite" is a scapegoat for the right, because it would be rather self-defeating if they just came out and called out what is at work here: global capitalism. i am not surprised the greek right is trying to scapegoat a leftist government that now has to clean up the mess.

is the EU a neo-liberal cluster? sure is, but sadly, it still beats a warring mess run by nationalist bug-eyed crazymen. present company excluded, oc.

Syriza is left only regarding negative stuff. It is neo-liberal to the core (and a sell-out) re economy. Let's not act as if it is Corbyn's Labour
Besides, it will stop existing after the next election, cause it is set to bomb (as it should).

[Basil II the B.S]

Actually it'll get roughly the same as the previous election, with the difference that ND this time is a lot stronger and can form a government by itself. ND are globalist garbage anyway. The original culprits along with PASOK. Syriza is currently equivalent to PASOK.

[Kyriakos]

^It won't get roughly the same; let alone that a copy of (thieving) Pasok is hardly needed (nor is the original/current Pasok, nor is ND either, btw). We don't have any serious main party. Moreover, while in power a party can fight its own schisms; Syriza got to power when a few years ago it was polling at 3% - it will stop existing once it falls.
I do hope that at least Varoufakis will be near 10%, but it is too early to tell (anything up to 11 months left).

[Sir Adrian]

goes to show that nationalists would rather blame other countries, rather than fiscally conservative austerity policies. guess they cant very well blame their own ideology, or, Zeus forbid, the glories of capitalism.

You mean the austerity policy which was imposed by other countries and the IMF? The Greeks are to blame for getting into the mess but it's completely detached from reality to say that they are to blame for not getting out it.

[Basil II the B.S]

^It won't get roughly the same; let alone that a copy of (thieving) Pasok is hardly needed (nor is the original/current Pasok, nor is ND either, btw). We don't have any serious main party. Moreover, while in power a party can fight its own schisms; Syriza got to power when a few years ago it was polling at 3% - it will stop existing once it falls.
I do hope that at least Varoufakis will be near 10%, but it is too early to tell (anything up to 11 months left).

Maybe you can join Italy and get ruled by Rome. Italians are rather symphatetic to the Greek plight. Though considering how bad Southern Italy is, I'm not sure if it'll do you any good.

[Abdülmecid I]

Also natural because the EU official goal now is to destroy national identities, so please Greeks forget your heritage. Soros will gladly buy it to make it part of his private collection.

Jeez, how is George Soros and globalism relevant to the issue? Every time something naughty happens, Marxists, "cosmopolitans" and magnates of coincidentally Jewish origins are automatically blamed. What's next, accusing malfunctioning toasters of being a part of a Bolshevik conspiracy to undermine the good, old Western tradition of family breakfast? The only result of this completely paranoid witch-hunt is the decline of the debate's quality and the fact that the primary beneficiaries avoid any criticism, while popular attention is distracted from pursuing imaginary scapegoats (in this case, a sneaky coalition between globalists and leftists).

Back to reality, the core of the problem lies with the most iconic aspect of right-wing economy, the privatisation of public property, in favour of investment, foreign and Greek. Nothing to do with Frankfurt School or "Cultural Marxism". The historical monuments compose only a tiny portion of the total number of buildings included in the list*. The more than obvious motive is to help the authorities collect a considerable amount of money to pay their enormous debts to their creditors and also encourage private investment, as nobody cares about how well the national memory is maintained. After all, it would be ridiculous to suggest that the "destruction" of Catholic churches, Ottoman baths and Venetian fortifications could somehow damage Greek nationalism. On the contrary, I suspect that the dream of the Greek far-right is the total disappearance of any edifice contradicting the official narrative. It's literally a decisive step to the liberalisation of the economy, by surrendering the cultural heritage (among many other buildings and infrastructure) to the free market for exploitation. Someone could be for or against that policy, depending on his political convictions and his ideas about how economy works, but labeling it as a leftist/globalist tactic is absurd.

The center-left-far-right coalition currently managing Greece is not in the middle of a bloodthirsty campaign of erasing Greek national identity. It just tries to follow the agreements signed with its international creditors, after its childish promises of blackmailing the richest part of the Earth through Greece's "invaluable geopolitical position", the minister's "terrific" negotiation strategy and the "massive European uprising against the 4th Reich" were unsurprisingly contradicted by cold reality. I personally disagree with this reckless privatisation policy, because, as it has already been explained, using cultural heritage for profit can undermine its access to the public, its preservation according to acceptable standards and even scientific research, because every one of these "services" can conflict with the owner's financial or more personal interests. On the other hand, as many realized after the failed 2015 referendum, there are no easy solutions to difficult problems, so it's essentially a matter of priorities. In the long term, although I doubt that Soros and co. will transform the archeological museum into a theme park about the Minotaur, I believe that society will lose, especially after having consumed the early gains of the sale, but, unfortunately, Greece is found in a rather desperate situation, without the luxury of comfortably planning about a prosperous future.

*The 10.000+ reference of the article is clearly a clerical mistake. That would probably be the total number of transferred public property.

Also the fund is administrated by a German in Luxembourg.

Is there any credible source? It seems to me like a propaganda story from an anti-austerity site, so I'd like to confirm its veracity. It doesn't matter if it's in Italian or any other language.

[Kyriakos]

I wasn't aware that Crete begins with venetian occupation; you learn something new each day :p