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Thread: Gender recognition act

  1. #221
    Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    I can only speak anecdotally to that. But yes, it is. For myself, if someone does that, I call the cop, the cops go pick them up on the basis of that legislation, for myself I'm yet to see any results based on that, due to the basis of "it was me" "i wasn't online"

    It's generally thought of as willful and malicious, it counts. Apparently, if you don't like it, talk it up with the police and procy fiscal, but ether way it's bulshit, I should be having to deal with this, minding my own business, person acting like they got more to do with my identity than me.
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  2. #222
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire -WONDERBOLT! View Post
    You've been here since 2008 and and you've never spoken to Pasan? Or me? Inconceivable.
    Nope, I don't think I have actually exchanged posts with either of you, and most certainly not about gender identity issues which was what I meant with "I have the chance to speak to about such things ".
    Someone doing that is trying to deny my identity and more importantly my right, to self determination and participation in society.
    Not really. Going by "Crimes committed by malice on the victim's transgender identity" from Aexodus post, It doesn't seem like a hate crime to use different pronouns than your chosen ones simply because that is not a crime to begin with. It is a hate crime if you are assaulted based on your gender identity etc.

    Also, I can't be sure but I think Scotland goes by "assumed innocent until proven guilty". So... how could you prove that using different pronouns than your chosen ones was done out of malice?
    How is pronouns an expression of hatred? That you assume they do it because they try to deny your identity an your rights of self-determination or participation in society doesn't mean it's true.
    One can assume that by being called "poor" the other side is trying to deny them their participation in society. Or by being called alcoholic. Etc.

    Can you be arrested in Scotland if you call someone an alcoholic?

  3. #223
    Aexodus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Or if you call amixed race person black when they identify as white, like where do you go from here.
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  4. #224
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire -WONDERBOLT! View Post
    I can only speak anecdotally to that. But yes, it is. For myself, if someone does that, I call the cop, the cops go pick them up on the basis of that legislation, for myself I'm yet to see any results based on that, due to the basis of "it was me" "i wasn't online"

    It's generally thought of as willful and malicious, it counts. Apparently, if you don't like it, talk it up with the police and procy fiscal, but ether way it's bulshit, I should be having to deal with this, minding my own business, person acting like they got more to do with my identity than me.
    But the law does not cover it. And what do you do if my self identified gender is a hate speech phrase?
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  5. #225
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    What's hostile about what I said? It's a genuine question. What if not using my chosen pronoun is hate speech but my pronoun is something hatefull? What then?
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  6. #226
    Aexodus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Well it depends on what is and isn’t considered a valid gender under UK law.

    For example male to female trans is recognised, but non binary isn’t.

    Where do you draw the line?
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  7. #227
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    That does sound reasonable. I had thought the situation was simmilsr to canada where any gender was accepted.
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  8. #228
    Aexodus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Essentially the thread topic is

    a. Should the process be made easier ie. should you no longer need a doctor’s letter as proposed by the so-called Conservative, Theresa May.

    b. Should it only be male and female transexuals who are recognised, if not do we expand the right to non binary, third gender, or infinite.
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  9. #229
    SilverSarah's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    I personally think and this is quite controversial, but that only male or female transgender should be recognized. I mean I know people who are in the middle and aren't either or. And I sometimes get what they mean, but other times I don't and I feel like they're trying to rebel against the cultural roles of male and female.

    While I think we should broaden those roles so like girls are allowed to be more manly than they are now and guys are allowed to be more womanly. I think this could be a main reason why we have people who are non binary.

    Just putting a disclaimer here I'm not one of these people so I can't speak for them I can only guesstimate considering I've met a few. But personally I'm just female nothing in the middle of that.

    I do think people should be made to go through a psychologist which in a lot of countries they do. Here in the Netherlands the waiting line to get into it is like 3 years which is kinda ridiculous since you then have to have appointments with the psychologist for 2 years before they can deem you sane enough to start hormones and all the rest. Now I think that can be a bit stupid since I went through it myself and I can tell you it's a gruesomly long thing that most times just seems to want to shake off the people who aren't actually trans which is good but it's mentally draining to have to wait so long for sure!

    Also thank you to the moderator who invited me to the forums and if you have any specific questions feel free to ask!

  10. #230
    Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    "use different pronouns than your chosen ones simply because that is not a crime to begin with"

    Not choosen, second, trying calling a black person a monkey, and an asian slitty eyed, see if you get picked up or not, it's the same, Verbal abuse is illegal, mas are sectarian chants, and the like. Calling me transgender isn't verbal abuse, calling me he, is.

    Look someone got arrested for reffering to nsomeone as fat, FAT, and y'knwo waht, they were overwieght, this is the UK, no america.

    IDK, Aex, but I assume it would coem under harassment, it's also illegal to reveal someone is trans, misgendering them does that, race isn't coverred the same way, IDK, I mean wh ythe are we drawing lines, it's dumb, it's an unessary line, we don't draw line around non-offesnive or missleading names, do we ban the name muhammod next?

    But I don't see why consent should be a cotravesal issue.

    You don't like it, don't talk to them.

    Setta, that'd be fine, for me, if you want to idenify as that, no skin off my bsack, but we don't let people be called king, lord or baron, or , so..... also I don't think what I read was offsive. Unless you used the term orgioanlly.

    Sarah to hell with cultureal roles, male female, other. done, simple. we don't need top recoprd everything about a persons gender.
    GIVE CREDIT TO YOUR ENEMY AND LITTLE TO YOURSELF, AS IT MAKES YOUR VICTORY ALL THE GREATER!
    -Under the influence of medically prescribed drugs, please take much salt with this post, you have been warned!
    -Col.32 For an independent Cornish, and English Parliment, within a U.K. that Includes Scotland!

  11. #231
    Aexodus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    I happen to be in the reform section 5 camp, I don’t think insulting langauge should he illegal, it’s a natural part of living in a free society.

    Misgendering being a hate crime would create situations where it is illegal for me to believe someone with a penis is a man, because it is insulting.

    Why do we draw these lines? Good question.

    Is it not discriminatory to draw arbitrary lines along transsexualism, but not transracialism?
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  12. #232
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire -WONDERBOLT! View Post
    Calling me transgender isn't verbal abuse, calling me he, is.
    Well, that is your opinion. My opinion is that it is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spitfire -WONDERBOLT! View Post
    Look someone got arrested for reffering to nsomeone as fat, FAT, and y'knwo waht, they were overwieght, this is the UK, no america.
    And someone being arrested for calling a fat person fat is (IMO) completely wrong. You describe the very dystopia that I would vote away with.

    Unless the UK becomes less radical with such crap, then I am afraid you would push people to vote for the other side and then being called fat or he would be a much smaller problem. You have to understand that if you alienate someone that simply called overweight people fat and he got in trouble with the police, next elections he would go vote for the people that want bathroom laws and make homosexuality or sex change surgery illegal.
    You got to compromise here friend... life is not black and white and if you go too far in calling hues of gray as black, you will get with too few shades as white and you would be in bigger trouble.

    Look what happened with USA and the progressives. The conservatives got so pissed that they literally support a man that has been habitually cheating on his wife because he's saying "Merry Christmas" and not "Happy Holidays".

  13. #233

    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Just allow transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice
    Or convert all public restrooms to unisex use. Problem solved.
    More on the subject,
    (PDF) SEX SEPARATION IN PUBLIC RESTROOMS: LAW https://www.researchgate.net/publica...URE_AND_GENDER

    Relying on legal history, gender history, and architectural theory, my central thesis is that, contrary to common intuitions, there was nothing benign or gender neutral about the social and historical origins of the first laws adopted at the end of the nineteenth century that mandated such separation. This Article demonstrates that the first laws mandating sex- separation of workplace toilet facilities at the end of the nineteenth century were rooted in the "separate spheres" ideology of the early century, an ideology that considered a woman's proper place to be in the home, tending the hearth fire, and rearing children. By the end of the century, the separate spheres ideology had been filtered through the science of the realist movement, the public health concerns of the sanitarian movement, and the vision of modesty embraced by late Victorian society. Nonetheless, the legal requirement that public restrooms be sex-separated owes its origins to the early nineteenth century ideology that advocated a cult of true womanhood, a vision of the pure, virtuous woman protected within the walls of her domestic haven.
    ------
    Campaign No Men in Women's Bathrooms - what we have here is the vision of weak women being subject to attack by men if transgender women are allowed to "invade" the public bathroom...

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSarah View Post
    Just my two cents on the topic, hope no one lynches me haha. (First ever post btw, be gentleee)
    I hope not...in fact - food for thought,
    VICIOUS BEATING OF WOMAN TRAGICALLY ILLUSTRATES RESTROOM SAFETY ISSUES FOR TRANSGENDER PEOPLE

    On April 18, Chrissy Lee Polis was viciously attacked by two teenagers as she entered the women’s bathroom at McDonald’s, after her attackers recognized Chrissy is transgender.
    The attack happened less than a week after the Maryland Senate rejected a transgender non-discrimination bill that had previously passed in the House.
    As we can see, the only solid evidence of any such attacks in public restrooms are those directed at transgender people.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

  14. #234
    Aexodus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gender recognition act

    It goes the other way too. Everyone is vulnerable when we share bathrooms, which are a private space
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