Empire/Province Planning: Let's do the maths.

[Peanutcat]

Efficiency is a great thing, squeezing that last ducat out of the poor farmer's purse is optimal for the state. So let's do the maths for the Latium province containing Rome.

Naturally the Eternal City must have all of the unique buildings availible to her. We'll be building the Colosseum, Circus Maximum, Pantheon and Cloaca Maxima even though they may not be optimal for the build, they're still nice and they satisfy my dream of a marble capital.

Let's begin.
In the Latium province we have an abundance of resources. We've got Wine, Fish, and Salt. We don't really care about the resources themselves, we care about the specialised resource buildings and modifiers. By focusing on the resource chain commerce paths we can turn Latium into a one province empire capable of standing alone against the mightiest foes.

Here's the maths we'll be using:

(1 + n FM) ( (1,35+N Ft)(186+720+800+507+360) + (Fl)(400+360+180+1400+1250+n120) )

Let's explain it.

Fl = Factor local commerce

n = number of markets,
FM = Factor market, = 0,2
In the yellow building chain for villages there's a market building, the highest level gives us a meager 120 local commerce wealth and an incredible 20% more income from all commerce.

N = Number of Neptune temples,
Ft = Factor temple, = 0,4
In the temple chain there's a temple dedicated to Neptune, the highest level gives us a bonus of 40% for all maritime commerce. It's a large bonus but only affects one source of income.

From the village chains we get a 35% increase for maritime trade income, it's in the calculation as 1,35 for the maritime part.






As you've probably noticed there's 2 distinct set of numbers,
(1,35+N Ft)(186+720+800+507+360) which is the income of all the top level building maritime commerce income, and our maritime income factor.
(Fl)(400+360+180+1400+1250+n120) which is the income of all the top level buildings local commerce income, and our local commerce income factor.

In the province, after building all the top level trade ports, all the top level resource money chains (the ones giving the least amount of resources), as well as the top level villages, Rome, and unique buildings in Rome we have 3 building slots left in the villages. With these I've looked at 2 buildings. The temples, and the markets. Let's look at the maths for both of them to determine which one gives the most.


Temples:
Combining the total factor for all the temples gives us the following forumla for them, since we have 3 temples we do not have room for any markets, therefore n = 0 in the formula, and N = 3. The result is:
2,75(186 +720 +800 +507 +360) + 1(400 +360 +360 +180 +1400 +1250) = 11025,75 income from trade every turn. We will be getting perhaps 500-1k more every turn from the cultural buildings in Rome as well.


Markets:
Combining the total factor for all the marketsgives us the following forumla for them, since we have 3 marketswe do not have room for any temples, therefore N = 0 in the formula, and n = 3. The result is:
1,6 (1,35(186 +720 +800 +507 +360) + 1,0275(400 +360 +360 +180 +1400 +1250 +360)) = 12643,32 income from trade every turn. As with the last time, the actual value will be higher because of the culture in Rome.

You may have noticed the factor 1,0275 pop up. This is the sum of the local trade modifier for the regions in the province divided by the amount of cities (4). In short, this is the average local trade modifier from the regions. Because of this it is not completely accurate, there is some room for error in this formula in order to keep it simple, it should not be far off from the true value however.







So what does this mean?

If we specialise the Latium province for commerce, if we focus on developing resources(money chain), trade ports, unique buildings and village markets in Latium. We'll be making more money from that one province than entire empires.
How about happiness? Because of the monuments in Rome we'll be getting an excess of +20 happiness every turn.

What's the catch? The province will require a total amount of -37 food to keep it from starving once fully built, before the colosseum however we'll need -47 food.
There will be a large foreign population because of the focus on merchants.
Banditry might be an issue.



Have I missed something? Did I explain something poorly? Got any better ideas? Reply and let me know.

I'm especially interested if anyone has any builds for other provinces. I've only done the maths for Latium as of now.

[Fluke]

Your build really represents the vast need for grain for the Romans, I like it. Send the armies forward in search of food for the citizens of Rome.

[CadetNewb]

I've always wondered what different ways there were to maximize the economy, but this one...a part of me badly desires to see a screenshot of this in action.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

My mind is hurting. I'm the worst person alive to do math.

[Peanutcat]

I've always wondered what different ways there were to maximize the economy, but this one...a part of me badly desires to see a screenshot of this in action.

It's purely theoretical at this stage so I don't have one yet but it should give a province income of somewhere around 20-40k I would guess with all income factored in.

[Maetharin]

Now if only it were possible to satisfy the need for food by importing it.
Would it be possible, instead of giving the import food edict a fixed number, to have it fill up the province´s fodd deficiency completely at the appropriate cost?

[ctc_jackie]

I can confirm that in the last playthrough I had Latium as my second most wealthy province with ~27k income per turn with a governor deployed and also a family member with Administrative skills in one of the cities. This was at max level imperium, full commerce build and about 86% empire maintenance.

[popovic]

With all due respect, all of that is completely pointless unless you factor in stuff such as:

1) The turn you are at. If it is really early game, and you don`t build a single food building, it will end bad for you.
2) The tech you have at disposal. All your numbers are from the highest level techs. You will need to survive until you get those.
3) Public order. Again, you need to keep an eye on it.
4) Does it pay off to spec Latium like that, or are there other provinces in your empire that can be specced even better. Also, are there provinces that will be specced in a different way in order to offset you speccing Latium like that.

There is also Banditry and Sanitation, but I don`t think those are too important.

[Grandburger]

Well if you want to Roleplay an accurate roman empire and have your far off provinces crumble as there only purpose is to produce food for the army leaving them lightly defended and not very well culturally homogeneous then this is a good route.

[ostendadler]

My mind is hurting. I'm the worst person alive to do math.

Allow me to be your wingman

[Sanguinis]

A few counterpoints since you asked if you missed anything:

-While it looks good on paper keep in mind 80-90% of that might be lost to empire maintenance (assuming late game empire since you have tier iv/v buildings).

-IME you do need to keep banditry under control. I always add colonia, grain silos or barracks to help with out. Otherwise you can lose the province's entire income for turns potentially causing desertion.

-Finally I try to keep food deficiencies per province reasonable. Minus 40 or 50 food in a single province is a huge risk. If you suffer a seccession of one or more of the surplus provinces required to support your pure econ home province, you could be completely and utterly buggered.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

..........................
Banditry might be an issue. ..................

I'm actually thinking of asking about this more generally - just going to review my current campaign some more.....

For I am afraid, certainly in many Provinces where Trade Routes exist, that maxxing out will be impossible! For it seems that EVERY settlement needs at least a Grain Silo set - and EVERY Capital needs both Storehouse and Delicatessan sets. Then with almost every Port needing to be fish producing - let alone the other important buildings AND some Food - there's almost no chance even for the special Resource buildings; let alone some Commercial ones.

Unless, of course, you want to lose that Maxxed income every other turn!

[Sanguinis]

I'm actually thinking of asking about this more generally - just going to review my current campaign some more.....

For I am afraid, certainly in many Provinces where Trade Routes exist, that maxxing out will be impossible! For it seems that EVERY settlement needs at least a Grain Silo set - and EVERY Capital needs both Storehouse and Delicatessan sets. Then with almost every Port needing to be fish producing - let alone the other important buildings AND some Food - there's almost no chance even for the special Resource buildings; let alone some Commercial ones.

Unless, of course, you want to lose that Maxxed income every other turn!

The "political animal" general skill also reduces banditry, so one way to deal with it is to have your governors invest in that skill. It's not ideal because it is a separate skill tree from the city management one. However I usually find it worthwhile especially late game.

[ctc_jackie]

Actually I don't think bothering to resolve the banditry is a good way to go. It is very important at the beginning, yes, when you have, say, an income of 6k and one province is producing 4-5k out of that. But long term, after you paint half the map you automatically get max level banditry in every province no matter how many buildings you have which reduce it.

As for where to put food buildings at the beginning obviously you have to accommodate them wherever you can, but afterwards the way I do is split income related provinces from food producing provinces.

[Sanguinis]

Yeah I guess it depends on how long you stick with your campaigns. I rarely play past Imperium V because I feel like most of the challenge is gone at that point. For me that's "late game". I do however expand very slowly so I will have most technologies and tier iv buildings.

[Peanutcat]

With all due respect, all of that is completely pointless unless you factor in stuff such as:

1) The turn you are at. If it is really early game, and you don`t build a single food building, it will end bad for you.
2) The tech you have at disposal. All your numbers are from the highest level techs. You will need to survive until you get those.
3) Public order. Again, you need to keep an eye on it.
4) Does it pay off to spec Latium like that, or are there other provinces in your empire that can be specced even better. Also, are there provinces that will be specced in a different way in order to offset you speccing Latium like that.

There is also Banditry and Sanitation, but I don`t think those are too important.

Completely valid points.

I've been building towards this Latium over the course of my campaign and it takes a while, however I've found that as long as you're careful and build food elsewhere it's not that big of an issue. Public order is generally not an issue with the build. Rome is heavily focused on entertainment which makes it a non issue.

I believe that specialising it will be vastly superior compared to building mixed because of the way the building modifiers work. Many buildings give some sort of income bonus instead of producing money themselves, the powerful thing about these is that they're applied province wide allowing you to stack them and squeeze far more out of your provinces than building balanced provinces. The food cost seems to not be that bad if you're willing to sacrifice some other provinces with worse modifiers. I'm still early game in my campaign but I am sure that I'll be able to specialise more provinces and minmax both the food production and income.

A few counterpoints since you asked if you missed anything:

-While it looks good on paper keep in mind 80-90% of that might be lost to empire maintenance (assuming late game empire since you have tier iv/v buildings).

-IME you do need to keep banditry under control. I always add colonia, grain silos or barracks to help with out. Otherwise you can lose the province's entire income for turns potentially causing desertion.

-Finally I try to keep food deficiencies per province reasonable. Minus 40 or 50 food in a single province is a huge risk. If you suffer a seccession of one or more of the surplus provinces required to support your pure econ home province, you could be completely and utterly buggered.

I'm actually thinking of asking about this more generally - just going to review my current campaign some more.....

For I am afraid, certainly in many Provinces where Trade Routes exist, that maxxing out will be impossible! For it seems that EVERY settlement needs at least a Grain Silo set - and EVERY Capital needs both Storehouse and Delicatessan sets. Then with almost every Port needing to be fish producing - let alone the other important buildings AND some Food - there's almost no chance even for the special Resource buildings; let alone some Commercial ones.

Unless, of course, you want to lose that Maxxed income every other turn!

Very true, empire maintenance will hurt but I've gotten the habit of making sure that every agent and general takes the maintenance reduction skills, this helps out a great deal. I honestly do not know exactly how significant banditry is. I've never used the mechanic before and might need to adapt the province if it becomes unbearable. As others have said however it seems to be possible to fight it without the need for buildings. Armies are able to patrol regions and governors/generals can reduce banditry. I think it should be possible to reduce it via these methods and end up richer than outright replacing some buildings.

The food is a major concern yes.

[Fluke]

It would be great if DEI could give one more building slot to Rome, just Rome, making it a unique 6 slot capital without a port. Not sure if it is possible but I have always felt I couldn't give Rome justice as a great city. One more slot would allow a truly great Rome.

[hoho96]

someone was was working on a mod to add more building slots to provinces. not sure where is it now though.

[Vardano]

someone was was working on a mod to add more building slots to provinces. not sure where is it now though.

Daruwind said that he is actually working on it now.

[felipe88]

Sicily, if i remember correctly there are fish and grain cities, or corsica with more fish.