Handling Cavalry

**Judeman266** · July 14, 2018, 10:41 AM

I've always wondered why people complained about cavalry in SS. I've found that if you bring sufficient spearmen to battle and set them in schiltrons with a bit of space between each schiltron, cavalry will get massacred. This tactic is even more effective when backed by missile units. The only complaint that I believe has any validity is the Athanatoi (Roman bodyguard). However, that problem is even easier to fix. All you have to do is go into the edu and lessen the number of bodyguards in a bodyguard unit for each faction. If anyone else has figured out other solutions post them here so others can try them.

**Duck of Death** · July 15, 2018, 05:22 PM

You're right... as long as you keep them in careful defensive positions/formations, spearmen shouldn't have trouble with most cavalry.... unless they get flanked!!!!, then theyre screwed. Don't let your spearmen get flanked

You could also try putting your spear units in staggered formations like Alexander liked to do when facing elephants or chariots.

**Delvecchio1975** · July 18, 2018, 08:13 AM

To counter Athenatoi combine the spearman with javelins if you're playing Muslim factions, or crossbows when you play Europeans. They'll go down, and the spearmen you lose are easily replacable ...

**Sint** · July 18, 2018, 08:08 PM

Sorry but that's just

.

Don't let your spearmen get flanked

That would be a good advise if not for the fact that a frontal charge with good heavy cav will murder any spear formation unless they outnumber the knights 10 to 1.Doesn't matter if it is in a shildtron.

People have tested this over an over and I just did it again I just :

A unit of feudal knights charges a unit of heavy spearman(the arab unit ) 200 spears vs 60 knights.The spearmnen are in a shildtron and the knights win 10 out of 10 tries with about 30 casulties ,they don't even need the charge they kill most men in meele.And that's just feudal knights the real heavy cav like the gothic knights beat them with less than 5 casulites..

**Hellvard** · July 19, 2018, 06:10 AM

Well, that's just medieval reality

Knights were the main force on that time, infantry was serving only as an auxillary force and was winning versus cavalry very rarerly, and in specific circumstances, like terrain not fit for horses. I know it's just a game, and historical accuarycy often must be sacrificed for better gameplay (and it's good, using only cavalry units would be boring

) and I think that knights on SS are pretty well balanced. Foot soldiers in this mod have a lot better chances to win against cavalry than their predecessors centuries ago

**Dekhatres** · July 19, 2018, 06:58 PM

flashbacks of 20 man bodyguard entering through wall breach and proceeding to slaughter 300+ men in melee

cavalry melee stats are so ridiculous feudal knights are better at taking out enemy infantry than their dismounted version

but i think the main source of frustration for people comes when they try out the more professional expensive and shiny spearman only to see them get stomped by cavalry as if they were peasants aswell

**NostalgiaFan** · July 23, 2018, 03:56 AM

I now want to ask, do Pikes do a lot better vs Cavalry?

**Judeman266** · July 23, 2018, 06:23 PM

Pikes, especially after Pike Militia, Stomp all cavalry except for French Lancers, Genoese Patricians, Gendarmes, Quapukulu (Plate Armored Cav). To deal with the heavily armored cavalry, it is mandatory to intersperse two-handers, halberds, billmen, or voulges among the pikemen.

**NostalgiaFan** · July 23, 2018, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Judeman266

Pikes, especially after Pike Militia, Stomp all cavalry except for French Lancers, Genoese Patricians, Gendarmes, Quapukulu (Plate Armored Cav). To deal with the heavily armored cavalry, it is mandatory to intersperse two-handers, halberds, billmen, or voulges among the pikemen.

Well nice to know Pikes are great against all but the most powerful cavalry units. Do gunpowder units do well too if they have support to keep them from getting hit?

**Judeman266** · July 23, 2018, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan

Well nice to know Pikes are great against all but the most powerful cavalry units. Do gunpowder units do well too if they have support to keep them from getting hit?

Yes. Musketeers and Pistoliers are the most effective on the heaviest cavalry.

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**NostalgiaFan** · July 23, 2018, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Judeman266

Yes. Musketeers and Pistoliers are the most effective on the heaviest cavalry.

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How does SS make the Pikes and Gunners more effective than Vanilla? because I know all too well of how buggy the pike and shot units were in the original Med 2.

**Judeman266** · July 23, 2018, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan

How does SS make the Pikes and Gunners more effective than Vanilla? because I know all too well of how buggy the pike and shot units were in the original Med 2.

SS removed the fire by rank that makes Gunner units move to the rear of the unit. Now they only kneel to reload. Pikemen's secondary weapons have been removed. The pike unit is now very strong from the front. However they are very vulnerable to attacks in the flanks.

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**Point Blank** · July 24, 2018, 04:57 AM

Please see this thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...werful-Cavalry

Upcoming RC 2.0 release completely re-works cavalry in SS.

**Point Blank** · July 24, 2018, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Judeman266

I've always wondered why people complained about cavalry in SS. I've found that if you bring sufficient spearmen to battle and set them in schiltrons with a bit of space between each schiltron, cavalry will get massacred. This tactic is even more effective when backed by missile units. The only complaint that I believe has any validity is the Athanatoi (Roman bodyguard). However, that problem is even easier to fix. All you have to do is go into the edu and lessen the number of bodyguards in a bodyguard unit for each faction. If anyone else has figured out other solutions post them here so others can try them.

Upcoming RC 2.0 release greatly reduces number of men in a bodyguard unit.

**Dekhatres** · July 25, 2018, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Upcoming RC 2.0 release completely re-works cavalry in SS.

in what way ?

**Judeman266** · July 25, 2018, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dekhatres

in what way ?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...php?p=15578026

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**Dekhatres** · August 01, 2018, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Judeman266

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...php?p=15578026

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would have liked to see actual stats numbers but i guess will have to wait for release

**Judeman266** · August 01, 2018, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Dekhatres

would have liked to see actual stats numbers but i guess will have to wait for release

- Very few cavalry now has the 'hardy' attribute, representing increased stamina
- Charge distances for cavalry increased. This represents the need to return to one's lines to get another lance etc. It also makes it more difficult to pull off a good charge. Combined with the change above and the increased heat penalties, there is now a much greater downside to cycle charging, especially for heavy cavalry

The EDU is attached.

**Dekhatres** · August 01, 2018, 08:33 AM

awsome! thank you, where did you get the edu from ? are there other files available ?

**Point Blank** · August 02, 2018, 12:05 AM

There is a thread in the RC forum with that file and the RC2.0 Guide. That EDU will not work with SS6.4 though because it references some new mount types.