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Thread: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

  1. #1
    Exarch's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    What was once rumour has turned out to be true; the US under Trump's administration is ready to withdraw from the World Trade Organisation and sanction foreign nations if it doesn't suit US needs. This has taken the form of the Fair And Reciprocal Tariff (FART) Act:
    Exclusive: A leaked Trump bill to blow up the WTO

    Axios has obtained a leaked draft of a Trump administration bill — ordered by the president himself — that would declare America’s abandonment of fundamental World Trade Organization rules.
    Why it matters: The draft legislation is stunning. The bill essentially provides Trump a license to raise U.S. tariffs at will, without congressional consent and international rules be damned.


    Show less

    The details: The bill, titled the "United States Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act," would give Trump unilateral power to ignore the two most basic principles of the WTO and negotiate one-on-one with any country:

    • The "Most Favored Nation" (MFN) principle that countries can't set different tariff rates for different countries outside of free trade agreements;
    • "Bound tariff rates" — the tariff ceilings that each WTO country has already agreed to in previous negotiations.

    "It would be the equivalent of walking away from the WTO and our commitments there without us actually notifying our withdrawal," said a source familiar with the bill.

    • "The good news is Congress would never give this authority to the president," the source added, describing the bill as "insane."
    • "It's not implementable at the border," given it would create potentially tens of thousands of new tariff rates on products. "And it would completely remove us from the set of global trade rules."

    Behind the scenes: Trump was briefed on this draft in late May, according to sources familiar with the situation. Most officials involved in the bill's drafting — with the notable exception of hardline trade adviser Peter Navarro — think the bill is unrealistic or unworkable. USTR, Commerce and the White House are involved.

    • In a White House meeting to discuss the bill earlier this year, Legislative Affairs Director Marc Short bluntly told Navarro the bill was "dead on arrival" and would receive zero support on Capitol Hill, according to sources familiar with the exchange.
    • Navarro replied to Short that he thought the bill would get plenty of support, particularly from Democrats, but Short told Navarro he didn't think Democrats were in much of a mood to hand over more authority to Trump.

    White House response: Spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said, "It is no secret that POTUS has had frustrations with the unfair imbalance of tariffs that put the U.S. at a disadvantage. He has asked his team to develop ideas to remedy this situation and create incentives for countries to lower their tariffs. The current system gives the U.S. no leverage and other countries no incentive."

    • But Walters signaled that we shouldn't take this bill as anything like a done deal. "The only way this would be news is if this were actual legislation that the administration was preparing to rollout, but it’s not," she said. "Principals have not even met to review any text of legislation on reciprocal trade."
    • Between the lines: Note the specificity of Walters' quote above. Trump directly requested this legislation and was verbally briefed on it in May. But he hasn't met with the principals to review the text.

    Be smart: Congress is already concerned with how Trump has been using his trade authorities — just look at recent efforts by Republican Sens. Bob Corker and Pat Toomey and Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet to roll back the president's steel and aluminum tariffs.

    • The bottom line: As a smart trade watcher told me: "The Trump administration should be more worried about not having their current authority restricted rather than expanding authority as this bill would do."

    Source: https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-wa...76f4e0f83.html



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Trump's private threat to upend global trade

    President Trump has repeatedly told top White House officials he wants to withdraw the United States from the World Trade Organization, a move that would throw global trade into wild disarray, people involved in the talks tell Axios.
    What we're hearing: “He’s [threatened to withdraw] 100 times. It would totally [screw] us as a country,” said a source who’s discussed the subject with Trump. The source added that Trump has frequently told advisers, "We always get ed by them [the WTO]. I don’t know why we’re in it. The WTO is designed by the rest of the world to screw the United States."


    Show less

    Flashback: During the campaign, Trump told NBC's Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press," in July 2016: "World Trade Organization is a disaster."
    Some aides have tried to explain to Trump that in their view, the U.S. does well at the WTO, given the U.S. has an army of trade lawyers and created the system:

    • The “Economic Report of the President” for 2018, which bears Trump’s signature on Page 11, states: “[T]he United States has won 85.7 percent of the cases it has initiated before the WTO since 1995, compared with a global average of 84.4 percent. In contrast, China’s success rate is just 66.7 percent.”

    But Trump is unmoved by those arguments, according to sources with direct knowledge:

    • Trump’s economic advisers do push back in the moment when he raises the idea of withdrawal.
    • But they’ve never put in place a policy process to take the idea seriously, according to four sources with direct knowledge of his private comments.
    • That dismissive attitude in the face of Trump’s insistence could ultimately prove to be a mistake — as history has shown with other policy ideas of which aides do not approve.

    Between the lines: Even if his advisers put a policy process in place and try to make sure he’s well-informed on what it would mean to try to withdraw from the WTO — there is no guarantee that Trump won’t do it. History shows he doesn't care about the process.

    • Remember when Trump upended his globalist trade advisers’ carefully constructed policy process and simply announced he’d be imposing massive tariffs on steel and aluminum imports? It’s not unimaginable that the same could eventually happen with his desire to try to withdraw from the WTO.

    Why this matters: A U.S. withdrawal from the WTO would send global markets into a spiral and cast trillions of dollars of trade into doubt.

    • It would also blow up an institution that for 70-plus years has been a pillar of global economic and political stability.
    • The consequences of a U.S. withdrawal are so profound that, like Trump’s senior advisers, the trade community hasn’t seriously entertained the possibility that Trump would try to withdraw.
    • A top trade lawyer in Washington said: “We think he’s nuts, but not that nuts."

    The safety valve: Should Trump defy his advisers and announce a withdrawal at some point in the future, he would run into significant legal hurdles.

    • As head of state, Trump under international law could make the notification at the WTO. But the U.S. law implementing the WTO agreements states quite plainly that withdrawal from the WTO requires an act of Congress.

    What’s next? Probably nothing. This move seems too extreme, even for Trump.

    • Sources with knowledge of the situation say the Trump administration will continue to call attention to various ways in which the U.S. encounters what some Trump advisers perceive is unfair and unbalanced treatment within the framework of the WTO.
    • The administration will likely continue to push the envelope on all its trade policies, fully expecting its actions will be challenged within the WTO.

    But if Trump continues to feel as if he’s being unfairly stymied by the international body, you’d be a fool to confidently declare that he won’t follow through on his desires at some point.



    Source: https://www.axios.com/trump-threat-w...28e97d715.html

    Y'know, i really hope they do pass the FART Act (yes, i know Twitter was there before i was), cuz then it might just shock Trump out of his stupidity and get him to fire Navarro and Lighthizer

  2. #2
    Alastor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    They can't be serious. I'm not talking about the content of this act, that is hardly surprising. I'm talking about the name. If they themselves are calling it the FART act what is left for critics and comedians to do?

  3. #3
    Tiro
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Did they really not notice that the acronym made up for tariff act would be easy to mock? If they didn't, then this has gotten a lot more amusing.
    Last edited by RandomPerson2000; July 03, 2018 at 03:09 AM.

  4. #4
    dogukan's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Thats a good name for taking down western civilization.
    US hegemony dies with a fart...
    Last edited by dogukan; July 03, 2018 at 07:53 AM.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  5. #5

    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    world trade goes down not with overwhelming red tape , but rather in a noxious gas

  6. #6

    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    I'm curious how all this push for protectionism will go. I do understand the nature of it, that a globalised economy has been quite detrimental to the relative position of the 1st world. The cost of the developing world playing catch up is a flow of wealth to them. In economic principle, free trade is a universal blessing but in practice it's more complex, especially when leading economies may unilaterally impose policies in their own self interest. A big reason for economic difficulties of the young is the simple fact that the average millennial is not simply working within the national labour pool but in effect competes on a global market, both in the sense that migrants to a country undercut resident labour but also in that outsourced labour undercuts domestic production. A solution to these difficulties is indeed protectionism in trade. However the overall economic benefit will be lesser, this is an inevitable consequence of having protectionism. Still, if the benefit to the native population outstrips the potential GDP economic growth they could see otherwise then it is not necessarily a bad policy. If the trade policy is universal and applied across the board to all countries in the world, I can only see it having a negative effect. If instead protectionism is applied only to countries outside of the west with likely exceptions for geopolitical allies, then it could work out better for the average worker.

    Also that acronym is terrible.

  7. #7

    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    This is excellent news. It's time to stop pretending the US isn't the biggest market in the world. Why should we kowtow to a bunch of European socialists or countries which don't respect intellectual property? Buh-bye WTO!


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    dogukan's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by joethepro36 View Post
    I'm curious how all this push for protectionism will go. I do understand the nature of it, that a globalised economy has been quite detrimental to the relative position of the 1st world. The cost of the developing world playing catch up is a flow of wealth to them. In economic principle, free trade is a universal blessing but in practice it's more complex, especially when leading economies may unilaterally impose policies in their own self interest. A big reason for economic difficulties of the young is the simple fact that the average millennial is not simply working within the national labour pool but in effect competes on a global market, both in the sense that migrants to a country undercut resident labour but also in that outsourced labour undercuts domestic production. A solution to these difficulties is indeed protectionism in trade. However the overall economic benefit will be lesser, this is an inevitable consequence of having protectionism. Still, if the benefit to the native population outstrips the potential GDP economic growth they could see otherwise then it is not necessarily a bad policy. If the trade policy is universal and applied across the board to all countries in the world, I can only see it having a negative effect. If instead protectionism is applied only to countries outside of the west with likely exceptions for geopolitical allies, then it could work out better for the average worker.

    Also that acronym is terrible.
    I think this is an inevitable outcome of the rapid technological catch up in the world combined with the slowed productive innovation in the developed world.
    WTO was founded at the peak of Liberal West's power when they had no concern of rapid catch up by the rest of the world and growth rates were high and technology was rapidly growing throughout the 1990s.

    Since the 2008, more and more the world realizes that the productive growth has slowed down and a lot of growth was driven by unhealthy financialization of western economies. This was fine while they were in a relative position of power. But as their share declines rapidly and alternative poles pop up, the hegemonic liberal ideology will likely come down.
    More and more we see a convergence of economic structures around the globe rather than the high value vs low value distribution of global value chains.

    Such protctionist measures cannot stop this process. Technology is a quasi-public good and the rest of the world
    while still not up there are highly capable of adapting and driving innovation forward today in new niche areas. Furthermore, huge economies of scale are needed to innovate. You also need to be in contact with the global production systems to develop technology WITHIN the system. We are way beyond a time when technology can develop in isolation.

    Essentially, we have reached a stage where nations and nation-states are becoming incopatible with a global trade and production system that seeks efficiency. The gorwing lower classes in the western world will take down the liberal order that was created on the basis of the middle classes. I believe the only way to overcome this problem would have been a paradigmic/ideologicl shift in much of the world towards accepting liberal trade principles by masses. Not gonna happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    This is excellent news. It's time to stop pretending the US isn't the biggest market in the world. Why should we kowtow to a bunch of European socialists or countries which don't respect intellectual property? Buh-bye WTO!
    The question IPR is not as simple as Trumpistas like to make. WTO was founded with TRIPs which was later updated to fit the needs of developing countries. Only on this basis did developing countries AGREE to join a west-enforced WTO order. Trump is acting like WTO was forced onto USA, which is ridiculous. It was spearheaded by USA and EU and was organized in a way to open up the developing countries at very high costs to these countries due to sudden huge structural shifts they had to go through when they had to compete high-tech western goods.

    There is no standard or a perfect fair spot when it comes to enforcing of IPR. India is full of great brains that can come up with cheap generic medications that is crucial for survival of a billion people but enforcing IPR means they HAVE TO BUY expensive goods from abroad....thats not efficiency. The only reason IPR exists is to promote innovation. Not to enforce hegemonic power asymetry....
    Last edited by dogukan; July 03, 2018 at 10:00 AM.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

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    Diocle's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Great, great, great Donald Trump!

    WTO is one of the command posts of Globalism, in which a bunch of stateless loan sharks and usurers impoverishes the international working class, plans the obscene neo-colonialism based on the dispossession and partition of resources on a planetary scale between very few economic powers without homeland and flag, and plans the global slave trade that is the most obscene crime against human beings from the end of WW2, WTO's distruction means a decisive move towards FREEDOM, JUSTICE and DEMOCRACY for mankind!

    I didn't expect that Trump would have decided to go so far and deep in the attack on neoliberalism, I'm astonished seeing that the American President is doing what he has promised to the MILLIONS Americans who have supported his candidacy! This means that politics, sometime is not synonym of fraud!


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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    To be sincere, as a moderately anti-globalist I don't think this will be the end of the world, even if it means the end of the World Trade Organization.

    The WTO is from 1995 when things were different. It needs a good restructuring \ reform.
    Second, for all the screams of terror, USA bypassing the WTO without explicitly leaving just weakens it, doesn't destroy it.
    Third, Such a bill would have to pass from the various checks and balances of USA; the republicans themselves say it will be dead on arrival if it arrives in a form similar to that. So, after some dance, it will be a more mellow form.
    Fourth, even if the WTO is dismantled a new similar organization will raise up.

    As such, I think what this will do even if Trump himself is serious, is to scare the WTO to commit to some serious reforms. With anti-globalists in power in USA and UK and with raising power in other countries (Italy), I believe it is a golden opportunity to reform the WTO to shield us the little people from globalism.


    As a note, what rings some bells here is that the bill seems to want to put the power in the hands of the POTUS, sidelining the Congress. With USA being quite keen in not putting too much power in the hands of any one person, I was surprised that this was not mentioned more.
    Last edited by alhoon; July 03, 2018 at 11:23 AM.

  11. #11
    dogukan's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    To be sincere, as a moderately anti-globalist I don't think this will be the end of the world, even if it means the end of the World Trade Organization.
    I dont think people understand the level importance involved here. WTO is literally the world you live in. I might as well say that you do not live in greece, you live in a WTO system. From the roads you use to location of a local shop you go to is a direct product of WTO.

    Wto was ratified in 1995 but it has many rounds that reformed it. Ultimately, the rapid changes in 2000s and especially the crisis have led to rise regional agreements that compete with WTO.
    Last time we had alternative to a global trade system was when multiple capitalist blocs went to war in 1930s.
    Wto wasnt founded from 0 in 1995. It is an expansion of the new liberal world order founded in 1947(starting with GATT) precisely to prevent what happened in 1930s by people like Keynes. It is a product of decades of work and trade integration that created the prosperous world we live in.

    The illegitimization of WTO means we are entering a very new period in this world. WTO has already been struggling a lot and it became a scapegoat for many left and right populists. The same kind of people that started the WWII.
    If the world does not trade and cooperate, then countries inevitably compete and more and more hostile groups get elected within countries that drive the world to inefficient competition and finally to wars.
    If we switch to such a realist system, i dare say that wars will be inevitable.

    And how exactly is WTO supposed to reform?
    What reforms do you have in mind?
    People dont even know that WTO secreteriat has no power to make any reforms. Wto legislative functions on the basis of national representatives coming together and agreeing on trade measures.
    WTO doesnt do anything. Its just a platform for this system and its biggest function is DISPUTE SETTLEMENT. It doesnt even have the power to sanction anybody....
    Last edited by dogukan; July 03, 2018 at 01:54 PM.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I dont think people understand the level importance involved here.
    And I believe that you grossly overestimate its importance. The roads I use for example are not a direct product of WTO, nor is the local shops. They are a product of many things and a panel for the countries to discuss trade and an organization that puts some checks and balances is not too important. We would have roads even without the WTO. We had roads since the Romans. We had local shops since the stone age.

    A world forum for trade is exceptionally important. And USA's huge economy is nearly mandatory. So even if WTO goes down by Trump's FaRT, there will be another one similar organization up soon after, perhaps with more protections against globalism
    Last edited by alhoon; July 03, 2018 at 03:04 PM.

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    dogukan's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    I am not sure you understood what I meant. The shops and roads are not there thanks to WTO, the way the global economic structures and geography of socio-economic activity is directly tied to the tailored open trade regimes over decades that work through WTOs framework.
    Each opening shifts structures and geographies. When china joins wto, textiles shops in merter area of istanbul close up and resources go to other areas and spaces.
    These are neither rapid or painless undertakings and are a product of decades of integration.


    And this globalist rhetoric is a baseless populist bs. If you want to weigh wto s ads and cons you ll have to do better than throwing such buzzwords. Calling wto globalist doesnt tell me anything. What does that even mean? Obviously it is a structure and platform of globalization.
    I dont see why that is an automatic evil?
    It also has little to do with financiers or global "financial elite".
    Wto is run by nations and lobby groups often from civil society(like environmentalists, labor rights..etc) but mostly with influences from agricultural and industrial interest groups(from inside each country. (I doubt Turkish motor part producers rule the world). Not finance elite...
    Last edited by dogukan; July 03, 2018 at 03:30 PM.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    They can't be serious. I'm not talking about the content of this act, that is hardly surprising. I'm talking about the name. If they themselves are calling it the FART act what is left for critics and comedians to do?
    That's right. Even couldn't be better named by Monty Python.

    Hmm, perhaps, Trump and his genius consultants try to take some wind out of the wings from the comedian industry (damaging another sector).

    Will this work?

    I'm excited how much and what this potus and his administration has still to do, until an impeachment will happen.
    Last edited by DaVinci; July 03, 2018 at 03:43 PM.
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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I am not sure you understood what I meant. The shops and roads are not there thanks to WTO, the way the global economic structures and geography of socio-economic activity is directly tied to the tailored open trade regimes over decades that work through WTOs framework.
    Each opening shifts structures and geographies. When china joins wto, textiles shops in merter area of istanbul close up and resources go to other areas and spaces.
    These are neither rapid or painless undertakings and are a product of decades of integration.


    And this globalist rhetoric is a baseless populist bs. If you want to weigh wto s ads and cons you ll have to do better than throwing such buzzwords. Calling wto globalist doesnt tell me anything. What does that even mean? Obviously it is a structure and platform of globalization.
    I dont see why that is an automatic evil?
    It also has little to do with financiers or global "financial elite".
    Wto is run by nations and lobby groups often from civil society(like environmentalists, labor rights..etc) but mostly with influences from agricultural and industrial interest groups(from inside each country. (I doubt Turkish motor part producers rule the world). Not finance elite...

    I don't disagree with anything of the above. I disagree with the doom and gloom.

    As I mentioned I am a moderate anti-globalist; I want slightly less global integration of economy without disregarding that one of the biggest reasons for China, Russia, India and USA to not go to war with each other is... they are one another's best customers!
    But I don't see how this will stop and we will go back to 1910s if the WTO changes or is replaced by WTO-mk2.

    Of course there are pros and cons to the WTO. And IMO the pros are more than the cons. But that doesn't mean that everything will revert to zero if WTO is dismantled (only to be replaced with some similar a couple of years after it), let alone if the USA sideline the WTO without really leaving it.

    As it is, the rules favor the international financial elite a bit too much to my liking and I am against things like multinationals taking countries to the court over policies those companies think harm their interests. A government's first priority should be the prosperity of the country and this is already violated by bribes and lobbying enough as it is.
    Aside of that, a slight reversal and relaxation of global integration of economy is good IMO. Not that it is impossible to do that within the WTO, as it allows tariffs and some measures. But the "powers that be" that strongly influence the WTO favor globalism (as in global integration and trade-without-borders, not as in a shady clique of cackling billionaires dressed in black around a big table running the world)
    Last edited by alhoon; July 03, 2018 at 04:42 PM.

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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it, this is a meme of my making:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Report of Trump bill rejecting WTO seen by trade experts as hot air


    GENEVA (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump has ordered the drafting of legislation that would mean abandoning key disciplines agreed at the World Trade Organization, Axios news website reported late on Sunday, to a skeptical response from trade experts.

    U.S. President Donald Trump speaks to the press aboard Air Force One en route to Bedminster, New Jersey, from Joint Base Andrews, Maryland, U.S., June 29, 2018. REUTERS/Eric Thayer

    Axios reported on Friday that Trump wanted to leave the WTO, a story dismissed by U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin as “wrong” and “an exaggeration”.

    The website followed up on Sunday by publishing what it said was a draft bill, the “United States Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act”, immediately drawing ridicule for legislation that would be known by its acronym, the FART Act.

    The act would allow Trump to ignore the WTO’s “most favored nation” principle, which stops countries trading on different terms with different trading partners unless they have a formal trade agreement, Axios said.

    It would also allow “reciprocal tariffs”, so Trump could impose U.S. tariffs on particular goods equal to the tariff charged on U.S. exports of those goods by another country.

    The draft bill published by Axios did not mention the WTO, but its report said the law would allow the United States to disregard tariff limits agreed at the WTO since 1995.

    Axios quoted a source familiar with the bill as saying the bill was “insane” and Congress would never consent to it. Trump was briefed on the draft in late May, Axios said, and most officials thought it was unrealistic or unworkable, apart from Trump’s trade adviser Peter Navarro.
    White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told Axios that the administration was not preparing to roll out such legislation.

    Trump has caused a crisis in the WTO by blocking the appointment of new trade judges, threatening to destroy the system of binding dispute settlement. But many diplomats say quitting the WTO would not be in the U.S. interest, and the WTO has said it has never had any indication of Trump intending to leave.
    U.S. officials in Geneva, home of the WTO, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Monday.

    Simon Lester, associate director of the Trade Policy Center at the Cato Institute, wrote on the International Economic Law and Policy Blog that “I’m not taking this too seriously”.

    If the goal was to get lower tariffs for U.S. exports, Trump could do that by negotiating trade agreements, he said.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JS16D

    Perhaps this I not fake news, but then it is sloppy reporting since there is only one source for this 'draft legislation' as this one news site which is then being quoted by all. I see nothing here that is remotely convincing. The simple explanation is that a gullible reporter has been had by a 'leak' that may not even be a real 'leak'. Let's get past the holiday week and see if this story still has any legs.

  18. #18
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JS16D

    Perhaps this I not fake news, but then it is sloppy reporting since there is only one source for this 'draft legislation' as this one news site which is then being quoted by all. I see nothing here that is remotely convincing. The simple explanation is that a gullible reporter has been had by a 'leak' that may not even be a real 'leak'. Let's get past the holiday week and see if this story still has any legs.
    However Mnuchin once said the trade war with China was on hold. That Navarro is noted as supportive I think rings true. That others - what actual non sycophants said different is sort of a moot point. All you really need to ask is would Putin like the ideal - if yes- than his orange sock puppet will do it.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #19
    dogukan's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I don't disagree with anything of the above. I disagree with the doom and gloom.

    As I mentioned I am a moderate anti-globalist; I want slightly less global integration of economy without disregarding that one of the biggest reasons for China, Russia, India and USA to not go to war with each other is... they are one another's best customers!
    But I don't see how this will stop and we will go back to 1910s if the WTO changes or is replaced by WTO-mk2.
    But there is doom and gloom. The political scene can change VERY rapidly in times of uncertainty in which we are right now. The anti-liberal forces have taken a lot of power and this will likely grow cumulatively. As the western hegemony is dying out and as new poles are arising, wests capacity to liberalize declines. Turkey is a perfect example of this transformation in under 20 years.
    When the west itself is not confident in its own liberal system, the rest of the world is already looking at alternatives. Such economic polarization will rapidly turn into political polarization and inter-bloc competitions.
    From where we stand today, looking at the future, there does not seem to be anything that will reverse this trend anytime soon. I d argue that the last hope of the liberal order is how the new technological revolution will unfold.

    How will WTO be replaced? Its not an institution that was founded in a day. It was weaved throughout decades through nations coming together in rounds and agreeing on reciprocal concessions. The moment you reverse that WTO is over. Such liberalizations or trade wars happen cumulatively. They always trigger chain reactions.

    Of course there are pros and cons to the WTO. And IMO the pros are more than the cons. But that doesn't mean that everything will revert to zero if WTO is dismantled (only to be replaced with some similar a couple of years after it), let alone if the USA sideline the WTO without really leaving it.
    What other measure prevents countries from populistically raising tariff rates? What prevents various lobby groups from crackingdown on politicians with full power for preferential treatment? What other measure prevents 'protection for sale'?
    There is more...any trade opening that happens bilaterally permanently effects the global trade order.
    Lets say X Y and Z countries have trade relations. If X and Y reduce barriers bilaterally and ignore the Z which in this hypothetical scenario is the efficient location for the sector that has been dealt over between X and Y....then you create a global production inefficiency which creates conflict and incompatability on the long run due to economies of scale.

    As it is, the rules favor the international financial elite a bit too much to my liking and I am against things like multinationals taking countries to the court over policies those companies think harm their interests. A government's first priority should be the prosperity of the country and this is already violated by bribes and lobbying enough as it is.
    Aside of that, a slight reversal and relaxation of global integration of economy is good IMO. Not that it is impossible to do that within the WTO, as it allows tariffs and some measures. But the "powers that be" that strongly influence the WTO favor globalism (as in global integration and trade-without-borders, not as in a shady clique of cackling billionaires dressed in black around a big table running the world)
    Under the WTO, multinationals CANNOT take a country to the court. Only countries can take other countries to court. WTO functions through nations coming together. Its dispute settlement mechanisms works between nations not between MNCs and Nations. Trade ministries of nations prepare reports based on misconduct of trade partners(often based on lobbying of certain sectors that claim damage) and go to court...a process which takes years to resolve.
    Its not a settin where MNCs hold too much power.

    What you are referring to is international arbitration based on INVESTMENT TREATIES, NOT TRADE. And in that area
    if anything, we LACK GLOBALISM, because there is not global regulation for international arbitration between states and firms. There is no global standard or body. Arbitration IS controlled by a financial elite precisely because it lacks such global regulations.
    Arbitration depends on 'Bılateral investment treaties', most of them were signed in 1990s between countries. The MNC ability to take a state to court depends on specific treaty. There is no STANDARD unlike in WTO. WTO also has a provision on investments(TRIMS) but it is not comprehensive enough and it allows bilateral dealings which many countries prefer.
    And bilateral dealings are often based on international arbitration which has multiple independent bodies....which one is picked depends on the treaty itself.
    So essentially, in the case of MNCs taking states to courts, it is a product of national bilateral agreements. Most of the dealings like I said were done in 1990s for periods covering 15-20 years. Countries did not really know back in 1990s that they d be sued so much by MNCs that literally controlled these arbitration bodies these states signed up in 1990s.

    This is not the case in WTO. WTO is extremely sensitive on these issues precisely due to how much it burned in 1990s. (at the time by left, rather than right - referring to Seattle 1999)
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  20. #20
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Was it white or black?
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    Default Re: US Declares War On World Trade With Massive FART Act

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it, this is a meme of my making:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Fake news. Wrong can of beans bub. Should be this one
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





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