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Thread: The Civil War 1861-1865

  1. #1

    Default The Civil War 1861-1865

    Hello Everone

    I think im in the location to make this post. Sorry if Im not.

    I'm very curiuos as to what games are being played and where. As for myself being in USA, I would think The Civil War, WWII etc etc would be the wanted but maybe im wrong. I would like to know.
    Are alot ot writers outside the USA? Just curious. Being the Civil War fan that I am, does anyone have a suggestion there?

    Thanks ALL
    Dave

  2. #2
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    Hi!

    You mention your interest in the US Civil War, I wonder if you have tried the American Civil War mods for Empire Total War and Napoleon Total War, or the Ultimate General: Civil War game? If you're tried them, would you recommend them?

    You asked about writers, I'm wondering what kind of writer you mean. If you mean writers of After Action Reports and creative writing, you'll find us in the Writers' Study. If you mean writers about history, such as the history of the US Civil War, you'll find historians in Vestigia Vetutatis. I'm sorry if I'm telling you things you already know, I noticed that you've been a member here much longer than I have.

  3. #3
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    And if you are interested what was happening in the rest of the world...to get bigger perspective or possibilities:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...0%E2%80%931859

    There is quite a lot possibly interesting conflicts around world 1850-1970... thatīs one reason why TW Victoria is quite popular idea (or Empire 2)

    Crimean War
    Second Opium War
    Indian Rebellion of 1857
    Second Italian War of Independence

    American Civil War
    French Intervention in Mexico
    Austro-Prussian War
    Boshin War (FotS - DLC for Shogun 2)

    Franco-Prussian War
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  4. #4

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    Thanks, very useful info!

  5. #5
    Aussie-tosser's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    The empire mod has been crippled by a building bug which makes the game crash during campaigns I think. A pity because it is an amazing mod. There is a pretty good mod for shogun 2 as well with a modded in american map.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    As good as they can make it, it probably wouldn't sell well outside of the USA. The ACW is as about relevant to Europeans as the Franco-Prussian War of 1871 is to Americans. This is somewhat hypocritical because they have now made 2 games focused solely on Japan, but at least then there was more than two playable factions (although, they weren't really *that* much different) I can't see a reasonable, historical ACW focused game with more than two, interesting, playable factions. This makes the diplomatic options pretty limited - basically focused on either getting or preventing the UK/France from entering the conflict.

    If they were to include the ACW, it would probably be as part of a larger, global conflict similiar to Empire, but maybe just focused on the post Napoleonic period, roughly 1830 to 1900. Then maybe, maybe we could get a ACW focused expansion.

  7. #7
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    For me, the Ultimate General is doing a perfect job, nothing more is needed. I'd only want it to 1. cover some other historical periods (or at least other wars, like Franco-Prussian or Crimean), 2. make the strategy a better part of the game.
    JoC

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    I think it would be a smashing success. The American Civil War or the War Between the States (depending on what part of the USA you are in is one of the most studied periods of history. If you look at the Napoleonic campaigns they are as widely popular in the USA as Europe. Its just a fascinating period.

    Many of the games on the Civil War have been made by gaming companies other than the US such as the French AGEOD`s Civil War.


    I would implement the brilliant idea started in Rome2 with leaders only being able to move troops and this would be the kicker to make a grand campaign that would be one of the top sellers for The Creative Assembly if they can ever get past the political correctness of the controversial issues that seem to have spread to modern pundit talking points.


    Brexit already the PC and make us a game where Bobby Lee and Sam Grant square off - it would top the selling list - do the marketing and this will bear out as I already have.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    This would likely be the first Total War game that I would not buy.
    The Armenian Issue

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    I want to know was the Civil War (1861-1865) and other battles of the 19th century similar to Hollywood versions that portrayed in movies and television shows. I have been reading that more Civil War soldiers died from disease than battle wounds.

  11. #11
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    Bloody hell.... Everything before WW1 and especially antibiotics was dirty mess. Heck even Red Cross was established in 1859 as Henry Durat was witnessing Battle of Solverino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Solferino , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Dunant Look at Napoleonīs losses in Russia campaign or that in Americal Civil War died more americans than in almost all others wars till now (WW1+2 counting, Vietnam....) Thatīs why there were so many amputations. You had no option to prevent infections especially in dirty trenches. No antibiotics and almost no central care meant you had a lot men to save with almost nothing. Remove limb, seal wound and hope it was enough...as hygiene was well...

    For whole history usual losses were like 50% fighting, 50% disseases/logistic/food (personal estimation)..Then history hits 18th century and we are adding industrial revolution bringing in more efficient killing methods, firepower, trenches, (machine guns, chemical warfare...) AND especially modern logistic! Look at Spanish Flu, such a rapid world spread comparing with slowly spreading medieval plagues. Why? Due to modern Railways and Ships. Wars are bigger, bringing in more men, more problems with logistic, food...easier dissease spreading...

    My personal view is that in movies and games more killing happens in the battle while in reality majority of losses were outside fights. Hannibal and crossing of Alps. He lost majority or army before even getting into Italy...Complete massacres are quire rare. Like Battle of Canea and majority of killing happens when one side lose morale and start running. Especially some Romanīs battle were famous that in whole day almost nobody died, then one side lost nerves and killing spree started..It is not problem just with ACW but that making a film about dying without even seeing enemy is much less patriotic than films like Getysburg....

    So American Civil War was definitely not as bad as WW1 but you can see like first forshadowing of future WW1 horrors. Technically looking at Crymean War, Franco-Prussian War of 1870 and Russo-Japanese War of 1910..they didnīt learn a thing :/

    EDIT: and this whole is big generalization and simplification
    Last edited by Daruwind; September 05, 2018 at 04:52 PM.
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  12. #12
    HigoChumbo's Avatar Definitely not Jom.
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    I'm personally not interested at all in the Ameriacan Civil war, probably because of the burnout due to seeing it absurdly magnified and overrepresented in all media while major conflicts like the 30 Years War have pretty much non-existent relevant content about them.

    That said, I ABSOLUTELY recommend Ultimate General: Gettysburg and Ultimate General: Civil War, a couple games that despite of having the disadvantage of my lack of interest in the setting, have had me enjoying a lot more than Total War in the past few years. I don't think I've played any other game which nails as much the impression of being an actual general. The pace is perfect, the sense of scale is there despite the unit size reduction... it's not nearly the technological prowess of Total War (sense of weight, cavalry charges, etc), and still has a long road ahead of it (like campaign persistence, and proper multiplayer), but it's already the superior title when it comes to strategic battles, in my humble opinion.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    The drawbacks to the American Civil War is the limited number of factions you can logically play. Really just two meaningful factions unless you can alter history where Britain and France get involved.
    The Campaign mechanic would have to be reworked. The focus would be on balancing manpower and production. The map would have to be very large to allow for operational movements. The political aspect can be expanded for the presidential elections. if the right person is elected, it could lead to an early peace. Slavery would have to play a role. if the Confederacy attempts to free them, then what would be political ramification be? How would foreign powers react? You also have resources to contend with. A mechanic where you have to have the resources and the manpower to field an army. A tech tree/ focus tree would have to be created that can lead to both advancement and events. It seems like a lot of work for limited replayability because of the lack of potential factions. I am not sure they would be able to produce the game and sell it at about 18- 20 USD, which IMO, would be the optimal price range.

    Any war game with three or fewer factions would be severely limited. An alternative would be a Saga game with a set of war scenario where similar approaches could be altered for each situation within each war. ACW, Franco- Prussian, American Revolution, etc...

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinTorres View Post
    I want to know was the Civil War (1861-1865) and other battles of the 19th century similar to Hollywood versions that portrayed in movies and television shows. I have been reading that more Civil War soldiers died from disease than battle wounds.
    Yes, the ratio was about 2-1 for diseases to combat related deaths among Union troops according to https://ehistory.osu.edu/exhibitions...eon/statistics

    People didn't understand sanitation back then, it was years before the germ theory of disease was widely accepted. Latrines were often upstream from where troops would draw drinking water so cholera, dysentery, and typhoid spread readily.

    In addition, TB, pneumonia, measles and malaria were major killers. They actually used quinine to sucessfully treat malaria, but there wasn't anything they could do about the other three. Even today, TB remains a major killer, and there isn't a good treatment for measles, but it was all but eradicated by vaccinations, at least in the first world, until recently when anti-vaxxer nutjobs started refusing vaccinations.

  15. #15
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    CA/SEGA will never create a Civil War Total War game.
    1st because it will be without or with limited interest from the majority of TW gamers of countries outside USA.
    2nd Because they will have to put their game's AI under DIRECT comparison of the game DARTH VADER created "Ultimate General: Civil War"... Why? Because ages ago they turned Darth Vader's aplly for job in CA and since then every TW game becomes worst in the AI aspect.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  16. #16

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    ACW is more popular than you give it credit. However, it was really popular 10-15 years ago. (90s super huge). My father deals with ACW documents and images and he sells all over the world. (of course with the declining popularity, he has more Rev War and 1812.

  17. #17
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    It could be easily part of TW Victoria or Empire II. If wars like ACW, Schleswig War(s), Boshin Wars...are global event where global players can intervene (but didnīt) unlike in others examples as Crimean War, French Intervation in Mexico, Second Opium War (where they did). This would be nice mechanics. Fight for power which would basically force big players to join in smaller local conflicts to keep power status, bonuses..

    Putting ACW in Saga title is maybe the closest we can get but still ACW is pretty far from an average TW formula. Many players/factions, gaining territory and building up economy/infrastructures..
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  18. #18

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    I think the best way to make an ACW game, is that they add the same time the French intervention War in Mexico (it was around the same time). With this you could play as Republican Mexican forces, Imperial Mexican forces, France, USA and the Confederacy and also by adding a small part of Canada to play as Britain. That could be interesting.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    The ACW could be marketable, maybe best so as a mini-campaign for a game set in the Victorian era. If it were up to me I’d set it so that the Union and Confederacy are the only playable factions, Britain and France function basically the same way they do in Fall of the Samurai, and Mexico, Canada, and some of the Native American tribes are available to do diplomacy with. Honestly diplomacy has always been somewhat of a weak point with Total War games, so the fact that it plays a relatively minor part would be a good thing in this case.

    In all honesty I don’t think CA would do a very good job with a game they set in the Victorian era though. The intricacies of diplomacy, colonization, complex economics, control of vital resources (especially coal), and politics (particularly in regards to France and her many revolutions in this time period) are extremely critical to portraying the era, and CA has never indicated that they have the capability to design that well. Also, god forbid CA try to portray any conflict after the Russo-Japanese war with any degree of accuracy. Even that conflict I’m loathe to include because so many of it’s battles revolved around complex earthworks and took several days. It even included one of the only times in history that a land based gun battery destroyed several ships at sea. The Great War mod did their best to bring World War 1 to the series, but warscape wasn’t meant to simulate rapid changes in societies and technology, and it definitely isn’t designed to portray trench warfare and the months long meat grinders that defined the western front battles. The shear degree of creative tactics and military innovations that begin to arise in the 20th century, not to mention international politics, is just too much for Warscape and CA.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Civil War 1861-1865

    The History Channel: Civil War – A Nation Divided
    AGEOD's American Civil War
    Sid Meier's Gettysburg!
    Robert E. Lee: Civil War General
    History Civil War: Secret Missions

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