US President Orders European Vassals To Pay For NATO

[sumskilz]

Incredible, Trump is criticised simply because he's stating the plain faced fact: the europeans are vassals and like all vassals they should pay for the protection that the Anglo American dominated project in the NATO confers.
Ingrates claim that for expecting europeans to do their bit, he's 'destroying NATO':
Trump is hellbent on destroying the Nato alliance

Lol:

has Trump’s US become a hostile power?

When people use the terms "Trump's US" or "Trump's America", I have to wonder if they believe their own BS.

It get's better:

Incredible as it may seem to those who grew up in a Europe and a Britain that took the US alliance for granted, the plan that has worked since the fall of Hitler can no longer be relied upon.

Translation:

Quite apart from any assessment of the relative foolishness or wisdom of any of the Trump administration's foreign policy choices, I do enjoy all the self-interested butthurt presented as self-righteous public moralizing.

[Exarch]

Lol:

When people use the terms "Trump's US" or "Trump's America", I have to wonder if they believe their own BS.

Indeed, Germans in the 30s wouldnt be believed if they'd said 'Hitler's Germany', even the ones who tried to top him. They were all complicit especially since modern culture expects all Germans to atone for the deaths of the West's sacred sheep: the hebrews.

Translation:

Quite apart from any assessment of the relative foolishness or wisdom of any of the Trump administration's foreign policy choices, I do enjoy all the self-interested butthurt presented as self-righteous public moralizing.

Exactly, vassals must be reminded of their place; europeans are expected to sit down STFU when Washington barks an order. Just like Europeans must pay for the effects of US foreign policies

[95thrifleman]

Indeed, Germans in the 30s wouldnt be believed if they'd said 'Hitler's Germany', even the ones who tried to top him. They were all complicit especially since modern culture expects all Germans to atone for the deaths of the West's sacred sheep: the hebrews.

Hmmmmm

[sumskilz]

Indeed, Germans in the 30s wouldnt be believed if they'd said 'Hitler's Germany', even the ones who tried to top him. They were all complicit especially since modern culture expects all Germans to atone for the deaths of the West's sacred sheep: the hebrews.

Well Trump was elected with ~46% of the popular vote, he must have tapped into something, although it could just be disdain for the other choice. As they say (maybe attributed to that guy that looked like a giant baby) democracy is the worst form of government ever tried except for all the others.

In reality, US interests haven't changed under Trump.

Exactly, vassals must be reminded of their place; europeans are expected to sit down STFU when Washington barks an order. Just like Europeans must pay for the effects of US foreign policies

Not at all, impotent whining isn't anything more or less than amusing. I'm just pointing out that the US asserting its self-interests is a travesty while them whining about feeling their self-interests aren't being considered enough is moral. Maybe they're hoping to get Trump reelected, as I remember, upsetting people was a big part of his appeal. They should keep framing themselves as victims, that's how we do things these days.

[Exarch]

Well Trump was elected with ~46% of the popular vote, he must have tapped into something, although it could just be disdain for the other choice. As they say (maybe attributed to that guy that looked like a giant baby) democracy is the worst form of government ever tried except for all the others.

Trump's election had as much to do with the failures of the US Elite in taking care of their own people, hence those same people screwing with the US Elite Establishment by voting for the anti Establishment candidate in Donald Trump. This accounts for the personality cult surrounding Trump an the continued use of political rallies to garner support for Trump's admin. and policies. It sends a stark message to those Establishment Elites to think twice about trying to screw Trump.

Not at all, impotent whining isn't anything more or less than amusing. I'm just pointing out that the US asserting its self-interests is a travesty while them whining about feeling their self-interests aren't being considered enough is moral. Maybe they're hoping to get Trump reelected, as I remember, upsetting people was a big part of his appeal. They should keep framing themselves as victims, that's how we do things these days

Trump may be doing this to screw with the US Establishment Elites, who have strong links with european 1%ers like Merkel, Soros etc, especially since it fits nicely with his desire to make good with Russia.
NATO as it stands is a stumbling block to that desire, especially since too many vassals are exploiting US generosity and benelovence and using NATO to get rich without doing much.

[JP226]

They don't need to act in unison on a global scale in order to not need NATO, particularly when as you say NATO's raison d'être is not even valid anymore. They simply need a comprehensive defensive alliance of their own. And the US with their insistence on such imperious posturing seems to be encouraging such an eventuality. Finally, nobody can argue that the US will always have hegemony over anyone. You could argue the US will have hegemony for a long time, to say always is simply false. As Heraclitus would say, the only thing constant is change.

You’re arguing that NATO is the key to US hegemony over Europe and that’s not true. We needed it during the cold war because of the USSR and now they are out of the picture. If the concern is that without NATO Europe is going to form some sort of super state capable of challenging us, that’s unfounded. There is nothing in the history of European relations to think they by themselves can work together.

[95thrifleman]

You’re arguing that NATO is the key to US hegemony over Europe and that’s not true. We needed it during the cold war because of the USSR and now they are out of the picture. If the concern is that without NATO Europe is going to form some sort of super state capable of challenging us, that’s unfounded. There is nothing in the history of European relations to think they by themselves can work together.

I would suggest you go back and look at European history. When faced with a significant outside threat, European nations are very good at working together. Historicaly that outside threat has tended been another European nation, however Europe's history is full of confederations, alliances and conventions formed of disparate European nations to face a common threat.

I wonder what passes for history lessons across the pond.

[sumskilz]

I would suggest you go back and look at European history. When faced with a significant outside threat, European nations are very good at working together. Historicaly that outside threat has tended been another European nation, however Europe's history is full of confederations, alliances and conventions formed of disparate European nations to face a common threat.

I wonder what passes for history lessons across the pond.

I don't know man, seems like you just proved his point.

[Alastor]

You’re arguing that NATO is the key to US hegemony over Europe and that’s not true. We needed it during the cold war because of the USSR and now they are out of the picture. If the concern is that without NATO Europe is going to form some sort of super state capable of challenging us, that’s unfounded. There is nothing in the history of European relations to think they by themselves can work together.

Actually what I argued as far as hegemony goes was that it will not last forever. Because nothing does. And NATO may not be the key to this hegemony but it for sure plays an important role in keeping it in place. Which is why I don't understand the reason the US seems eager to push its member-states into positions that might cause them to rethink their membership. Finally, history may often be a good indicator of things to follow, but predicting the future is far from a sure science. Not too long ago the existence of the nation-state would have been unfathomable. A couple of thousands years ago the Roman Empire would have seemed an impossibility. Closer to your home, 300 years ago nothing would indicate that a state in North America would be the world's sole superpower. The only constant is change.

[Exarch]

Actually what I argued as far as hegemony goes was that it will not last forever. Because nothing does. And NATO may not be the key to this hegemony but it for sure plays an important role in keeping it in place. Which is why I don't understand the reason the US seems eager to push its member-states into positions that might cause them to rethink their membership.

Because Europeans have been exploiting NATO for their own gains and previous US Presidents have put up with it for the verbal pinky promise by europeans to pay homage and loyalty to the Anglo American supermacist movement otherwise known as the Five Eyes.
Trump's simply re-affirming the position of Europeans in the hierarchy of the West, as intermediate lower castes compared to the Five Eyes; this is facilitated by the last 2 French Presidents who basically turned France from an independant proud european nation to a slavish handmaiden of the Five Eyes.

[Alastor]

Because Europeans have been exploiting NATO for their own gains.

Right, your "interesting" vocabulary aside, can you explain what you mean here?

[Exarch]

Right, your "interesting" vocabulary aside, can you explain what you mean here?

Yes.
Europeans, knowing that they have the backing of NATO irresponsibly start trouble with other non NATO nations like Russia so as to serve their own national interests. The fact that they get to not spend $$$ on military is a bonus. Many, many more Anglo American soldiers died on NATO missions than their european counterparts. Fact is, Europeans being vassals and minions in the NATO relationship should be shouldering the majority of the burden, they should be the ones fighting and dying, they should be the ones giving gold and treasure to the Anglo American masters. This is not how western feudal systems work. Trump is simply restoring the reality of NATO.

[95thrifleman]

I don't know man, seems like you just proved his point.

Actualy no.

Europe is now more united than it ever has been and the unifying threats are external such as Russia, terrorism and the economic threats of America and China. I think we'll see more and more unity within Europe, especialy now the divisive presence of the UK is no longer an issue.

European nations have proven, historicly, that they can and will work together, often extremely well.

[Exarch]

Actualy no.

Europe is now more united than it ever has been and the unifying threats are external such as Russia, terrorism and the economic threats of America and China. I think we'll see more and more unity within Europe, especialy now the divisive presence of the UK is no longer an issue.

European nations have proven, historicly, that they can and will work together, often extremely well.

If this was 2008, i'd be more inclined to agree with you but a lot has happened these past 10 years. The EU is barely able to keep itself together with a massive split in 'european values' between the homosexual, feminist, numale western europeans and the traditional, conservative Visegrad Group.
NATO as an entity is defunct, if the US wanted to usher all huwhites into its empire, they should come as Territories rather than as sovereign nations

[Alastor]

Yes.
Europeans, knowing that they have the backing of NATO irresponsibly start trouble with other non NATO nations like Russia so as to serve their own national interests.

When did Europeans start trouble with Russia to serve their own national interests?

[Exarch]

When did Europeans start trouble with Russia to serve their own national interests?

case one: Theresa May falsely accusing Russia of poisoning a Russian turncoat so as to distract attention away from Brexit failures.
case two: Poland trying to pull the rest of the EU into confrontation with Russia
case three: France and Germany backstabbing Russia so as to acquire Ukraine into the EU and therefore access to Ukrainian prostitute, apparently only third best after Kazakhstan.

[Alastor]

case one: Theresa May falsely accusing Russia of poisoning a Russian turncoat so as to distract attention away from Brexit failures.
case two: Poland trying to pull the rest of the EU into confrontation with Russia
case three: France and Germany backstabbing Russia so as to acquire Ukraine into the EU and therefore access to Ukrainian prostitute, apparently only third best after Kazakhstan.

The only one of these I see some merit in is the first one. But even that one came during a time of very tense relations initiated by US policy. So I would say its more a case of continuing trouble, than starting trouble.

The second seems unnecessary, Poland doesn't need to pull the EU into confrontation with Russia, the US already did that successfully. As for the third I don't see where you get France and Germany backstabbing Russia from. The EU deal (which was not a membership offer btw) was supported by most Ukrainians and opposed by Yanukovich. Unless you have evidence that the German and French secret services somehow instigated the Euromaidan there is nothing to see here. Perhaps more importantly it came after a push to get Ukraine to join NATO a few years earlier. So even if you want to claim it was an attempt to woo Ukraine away of Russia, it also did not start with Europe.

[Heathen Hammer]

The notion of current Europe being "united" is laughable. On one hand we have neoliberal oligarchies like the ones in Germany, UK and France who want to establish some kind of European super-state. Then we have countries like Hungary and Poland, that remember how it was like under USSR "guidance" and are quite skeptical of its neoliberal version under Merkel, an East German communist, now LARPing as a "conservative". Then we have countries like Austria and Italy, that already tasted "liberal democracy" and became quite opposed to the notion of being flooded by third world immigrants and having their economies used as piggie bank for billionaires who don't even live there.
Euromaidan was a typical "color revolution" where Western powers obviously backed its puppet politicians to overthrow the existing democratically elected government. Russia's later action were just a reaction to EU and US stirring things up in Russia's sphere of influence, much like its not easy to guess how US would react if Iran and China backed a coup d'etat in Mexico installing an anti-US government.

[95thrifleman]

This laughable "theory" that the British government was responsible for the Skripal poisoning? Yeah and the yanks where behind 9/11....... let me know how that tinfoil hat is working for you.

[Heathen Hammer]

Its quite hilarious, how UK government is always a victim of evil Russia, even thou Russia had nothing to gain from killing some defector right before elections, while UK regime was in full damage control mode and needed to distract the public with Russian boogeyman again.