Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 38 of 38

Thread: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

  1. #21
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    FloRida
    Posts
    4,279

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Why would it be? The list is comprised of countries that have an ongoing civil war (Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya) or that are hostile to the USA (Iran, North Korea, Venezuela). Saudi Arabia is neither. If anything you should be surprised that Afghanistan isn't in.
    See Alastor’s post above.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  2. #22
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    4,202

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Because as a candidate Trump initially promised a Muslim ban. Saudi Arabia is not only a Muslim state but also considered, not exactly unfairly, one of the main exporters of fundamental Islam. Of course Trump backed down from that promise, not that it made a difference, he already had caused a stir, the more impressionable conservatives were won over, Trump won. As president he ends up nowhere near as aggressive to Saudi Arabia as he wanted people to believe he would be. Quite the opposite in fact. I mean, who can forget that sword dance?

    For more info on how the Muslim ban stopped being a Muslim ban you can read here:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/trum...-briefing.html
    Also here for a timeline:
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...s-entering-us/
    Sure, but this isn't that Muslim ban and wasn't advertised as such. This is a travel ban for several specific countries. And, as I'm sure that you are aware, North Korea and Venezuela aren't usually considered Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far from the only Muslim country not on the list, btw.


  3. #23
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    FloRida
    Posts
    4,279

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Sure, but this isn't that Muslim ban and wasn't advertised as such.
    Wasn’t advertised as a Muslim ban, except for when Trump, himself, advertised it as a Muslim ban.

    Here is just one instance, from last July: https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pre...n-731128899713

    The “rollback” is the current nations on the ban list instead of all Muslims.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  4. #24
    Alastor's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Not home
    Posts
    1,128

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Sure, but this isn't that Muslim ban and wasn't advertised as such. This is a travel ban for several specific countries. And, as I'm sure that you are aware, North Korea and Venezuela aren't usually considered Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is far from the only Muslim country not on the list, btw.
    At the very least, it is a direct evolution of the list advertised numerous times as such in the past. As for the rest, the question effectively was why people expected Saudi Arabia to be on the list. I have answered why.

  5. #25
    Praepositus
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,409

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    The Muslim ban is a broken promise. This travel ban is a legal measure Trump seems to be parading as successful bigotry, I guess he needs the muslim hating vote badly.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  6. #26
    Papay's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Planet Nirn
    Posts
    3,783

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Because as a candidate Trump initially promised a Muslim ban. Saudi Arabia is not only a Muslim state but also considered, not exactly unfairly, one of the main exporters of fundamental Islam. Of course Trump backed down from that promise, not that it made a difference, he already had caused a stir, the more impressionable conservatives were won over, Trump won. As president he ends up nowhere near as aggressive to Saudi Arabia as he wanted people to believe he would be. Quite the opposite in fact. I mean, who can forget that sword dance?

    For more info on how the Muslim ban stopped being a Muslim ban you can read here:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/trum...-briefing.html
    Also here for a timeline:
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...s-entering-us/
    You cant enforce "muslim ban". Its scary that so many Trump supporters think that somehow their country can be "shielded by muslims". There are hundreds of millions of muslims in countries like Russia or India. Even Israel has a strong minority of muslims. How do you check if an Indian is a muslim? What Trump does is taking some measures to satisfy the white far right in USA

    Meanwhile US authorities have arrested about 600 women protesting on capitol hill

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wome...ry?id=56240419
    Last edited by Papay; June 29, 2018 at 01:29 PM.

  7. #27
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    FloRida
    Posts
    4,279

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Agreed.

    In regard to the arrests, they were unlawfully demonstrating. Need a permit for that.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  8. #28

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    You cant enforce "muslim ban". Its scary that so many Trump supporters think that somehow their country can be "shielded by muslims". There are hundreds of millions of muslims in countries like Russia or India. Even Israel has a strong minority of muslims. How do you check if an Indian is a muslim? What Trump does is taking some measures to satisfy the white far right in USA

    Meanwhile US authorities have arrested about 600 women protesting on capitol hill

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wome...ry?id=56240419
    A ban on Muslims might not prevent every Muslim from entering the country, but it would stop most of them. There are several ways of finding out whether an applicant is a Muslim, such as by their name, dress style, geographic location, social media postings, etc. Of course they should have the opportunity to prove that they are Muslim in name only, i.e., apostates living in secret.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    A ban on Muslims might not prevent every Muslim from entering the country, but it would stop most of them. There are several ways of finding out whether an applicant is a Muslim, such as by their name, dress style, geographic location, social media postings, etc. Of course they should have the opportunity to prove that they are Muslim in name only, i.e., apostates living in secret.
    assuming the point of such a ban is to prevent terrorism, i'm pretty sure a terrorist wouldn't mind lying about being a secret apostate if doing so would lead to them washing away their sins in a tide of infidel blood. fact of the matter is that israel needs to be able to traffic their terrorist proxies from saudi and pakistan and so forth through Langley and a blanket ban would make it too difficult for mossad to do that. well not too difficult but more expensive and why spend shekels needlessly?

  10. #30

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduet View Post
    assuming the point of such a ban is to prevent terrorism, i'm pretty sure a terrorist wouldn't mind lying about being a secret apostate if doing so would lead to them washing away their sins in a tide of infidel blood. fact of the matter is that israel needs to be able to traffic their terrorist proxies from saudi and pakistan and so forth through Langley and a blanket ban would make it too difficult for mossad to do that. well not too difficult but more expensive and why spend shekels needlessly?
    Terrorism is just one of many bad things that Muslims tend to bring with them, and it isn't even the worst. A complete ban on most adult male Muslims for immigration or travel, would be effective at stopping bad Muslims in general, and especially "clerics" and other public figures. Even if it catches only 30-60% of them, that is still better than nothing. An exception for religious minorities would most likely be taken advantage of by some Muslims, but at least it would help ensure than no non-Muslims are accidentally banned, much like how in the justice system, its stringent standards would rather see a dozen guilty criminals go free than punish one innocent. In theory at least.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  11. #31
    Papay's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Planet Nirn
    Posts
    3,783

    Default TRe: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    Terrorism is just one of many bad things that Muslims tend to bring with them, and it isn't even the worst. A complete ban on most adult male Muslims for immigration or travel, would be effective at stopping bad Muslims in general, and especially "clerics" and other public figures. Even if it catches only 30-60% of them, that is still better than nothing. An exception for religious minorities would most likely be taken advantage of by some Muslims, but at least it would help ensure than no non-Muslims are accidentally banned, much like how in the justice system, its stringent standards would rather see a dozen guilty criminals go free than punish one innocent. In theory at least.
    The level of american paranoia regarding illegal muslim immigration is so high that you fear something that is non existent in your country

  12. #32

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    You cant enforce "muslim ban". Its scary that so many Trump supporters think that somehow their country can be "shielded by muslims". There are hundreds of millions of muslims in countries like Russia or India. Even Israel has a strong minority of muslims. How do you check if an Indian is a muslim? What Trump does is taking some measures to satisfy the white far right in USA

    Meanwhile US authorities have arrested about 600 women protesting on capitol hill

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wome...ry?id=56240419
    The yanks arrest 600 women and it's "They needed a permit", Britain arrests one bloke and it's "an assault on free speech."

  13. #33

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    The yanks arrest 600 women and it's "They needed a permit", Britain arrests one bloke and it's "an assault on free speech."
    From the link you quote:

    US Capitol Police arrested 575 people at the protest in the Senate building and charged them a $50 citation for unlawfully demonstrating.
    So yeah that's just provoking police to act for more PR sympathy (just like the crying kid pictures). And seems it worked in your case.

  14. #34
    LWC's Avatar Foederatus
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    US of A
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Papay from Planet Nim, if you bother to pay attention to what's going on in this world, you would realize that Islamic terrorism is real and is not mere paranoia for centuries. Read up on Reconquista of the Iberian peninsula, causes for the Crusades, downfall of the Byzantine Empire, birth of the Ottoman Empire, siege of Vienna, Islamization of North Africa, conquest of Greece... Modern day events: 9-11, shootings in Paris, Orlando .... Just curious, what is your religion? Islam? If so, I applaud your courage to stand up for it and devotion, however misled. If not, WTF, overwhelmed by guilt? Your family used to impale turks on wooden spikes with Count Dracula?

    Indonesia and Malaysia having the largest population of Muslims in the World, are not on the list, so it's far from muslim ban. The point is to restrict immigrants from countries where no records or proper identification could be provided. US is not alone in wanting to fact check the identity of those who seeks entry. Regardless of what Trump said on campaign trail, there are legal documents and policies now and that is what should be examined for legality.
    Last edited by LWC; July 19, 2018 at 08:31 AM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by LWC View Post
    Papay from Planet Nim, if you bother to pay attention to what's going on in this world, you would realize that Islamic terrorism is real and is not mere paranoia for centuries. Read up on Reconquista of the Iberian peninsula, causes for the Crusades, downfall of the Byzantine Empire, birth of the Ottoman Empire, siege of Vienna, Islamization of North Africa, conquest of Greece... Modern day events: 9-11, shootings in Paris, Orlando .... Just curious, what is your religion? Islam? If so, I applaud your courage to stand up for it and devotion, however misled. If not, WTF, overwhelmed by guilt? Your family used to impale turks on wooden spikes with Count Dracula?

    Indonesia and Malaysia having the largest population of Muslims in the World, are not on the list, so it's far from muslim ban. The point is to restrict immigrants from countries where no records or proper identification could be provided. US is not alone in wanting to fact check the identity of those who seeks entry. Regardless of what Trump said on campaign trail, there are legal documents and policies now and that is what should be examined for legality.
    By your standards there is pretty much terrorism of everything; Islamic, Christian, Jewish, atheist, etc.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    Middle Kingdom: Total War (Poll)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...gdom-Total-War

    Cities: Skylines
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ities-Skylines

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  16. #36
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Previously in a Random Place, now retired
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LWC View Post
    Papay from Planet Nim, if you bother to pay attention to what's going on in this world, you would realize that Islamic terrorism is real and is not mere paranoia for centuries. Read up on Reconquista of the Iberian peninsula, causes for the Crusades, downfall of the Byzantine Empire, birth of the Ottoman Empire, siege of Vienna, Islamization of North Africa, conquest of Greece... Modern day events: 9-11, shootings in Paris, Orlando .... Just curious, what is your religion? Islam? If so, I applaud your courage to stand up for it and devotion, however misled. If not, WTF, overwhelmed by guilt? Your family used to impale turks on wooden spikes with Count Dracula?


    Indonesia and Malaysia having the largest population of Muslims in the World, are not on the list, so it's far from muslim ban. The point is to restrict immigrants from countries where no records or proper identification could be provided. US is not alone in wanting to fact check the identity of those who seeks entry. Regardless of what Trump said on campaign trail, there are legal documents and policies now and that is what should be examined for legality.
    I honestly fail to see a connection between the modern problem of mainly Salafist Sunni terrorism and the Ottoman Empire aside from that the decline and later collapse of the Ottoman Empire especially during the early 20th century had paved the way for the gradual European colonisation of North Africa and the Fertile Crescent during the 19th to 20th centuries which could have started the Salafist movement around the second half of the 19th century or perhaps it instead started around the mid 18th century with the creation of Wahabism which would gain a bit of a foothold in the Muslim world with the creation of Saudi Arabia in 1932*. Still it wasn't until around the late 1970s/early 1980s that the Salafist movement really began to grow rapidly as a result of the decline of Arab nationalism following the defeat of the Arab countries by Israel in the Six Day war and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.


    As for Islamic terrorism outside of the Middle East and North Africa, it probably originated as a reaction to European powers conquering many Islamic countries during the 16th to very early 20th centuries such as the Dutch conquest of Indonesia.

    * Yes it could be argued that Wahabism didn't gain a foothold upon the creation of Saudi Arabia in 1932 as the Ikhwan had revolted against the Sauds in 1927, however I'm arguing is that it became entrenched as a small yet powerful minority in the country with access to massive oil fields which would later have greater influence as a result of then Saudi King Khaled enforcing a stricter version of Sharia Law and gave more power to the Ulama in response to the violent seizure of the Grand Mosque in November-December 1979 by extremist insurgents.
    Last edited by RandomPerson2000; July 19, 2018 at 01:27 PM.

  17. #37
    Katsumoto de Voltaire's Avatar Delusions of Grandeur
    Moderation Mentor Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    11,108

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Posts discussing the origins of the Crusades have been moved here, please feel free to update the OP and discuss the topic there. Thank you.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Supreme Court Upholds Trumpís Travel Ban

    Ultimately unsurprising given the parameters and limits of the order. The over the top responses of liberal circuit court judges in the opening months were primed for reversal. Trump was wrong in one regard though, I'm not tired of winning yet.


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •