OPEN DISCUSSION: the renewal of the modding awards

[Flinn]

This is an open thread, aimed at brainstorming what could be a good way to review/revamp the Modding Awards here at TWC

It's been a while now since we started to talk about this, and some steps have been taken already, at the least to make the awards more varied and interesting (the classical modder/mod, the tool/resource), still many problems remain, such as:

- the big gap between the quantity of mods/tools and in general of the material produced for Rome and Med 2 compared to the other titles, it makes it very hard to come out with rules that can be valid for both engines
- some games (such as Empire, Napoleon and Shogun) never had many mods, and now they have even less
- the new titles of WH have very little mods on TWC, most probably because of Steam

so, it is evident that we need to rethink the rules to make them more in line with the actual situation, keeping in mind that

- we need to grant a fair competition
- we do this to award modders for their contributions and to rise more interest around mods and modders
- we need new members to keep the site alive; happy modders means a lot of mods, which in turn means a lot of new members

my first inputs:

- I think that a sitewide brainstorm could be useful, if anything to let the modders know that not only the committee has a voice here, but that everyone can voice his concerns
- I think that the committee should be doing more in terms of AD, both at TWC and outside of it

Feel free to drop down ideas; keep the discussion polite, we are not going to decide anything right now, rather I just want to see what's the flow here and then study a proposal/group of ideas

[b0Gia de Bodemloze]

Well for Rome Total War / Medieval 2 Total war there are already many and even more are on the works. So keep the situation as it is. For Empire/Napoleon/Shogun its true that there aren't many especially for Empire/Napoleon. We could merge these 2 . For Shogun there are more but its because they are actually 2 games Shogun and Fall of Samurai. Then for Rome II and Attila there are actually work that is doing. And last we could merge the Warhammer's because they have their own fan base.
In the future we could Merge Attila with Thrones of Britannia.

[Lifthrasir]

While updating the Hall of Fame, I've just realised that they didn't use the same criterias by the past to make the different categories. The former categories were more purely about the gaming part rather than the modding technical part. For instance, there were the followong categories:
- Favourite Mod
- Favourite Gameplay Mod
- Most Immersive Mod
- Favourite Campaign AI
- Favourite visual aesthetic
Etc...

I think that we should go back to this somehow (not necessary with the same categories but you get the idea ).
All games, no matter the engine, can get more or less the same categories.
Most of the mods can be nominated in any of these categories, even in several of them.
The Committee won't need anymore to list the mods/submods per category but only by checking if there has been a release during the relevant year.

The bad point is that it doesn't reduce the main games sections ( I mean that we would still have 1 category per TW serie) unless the Committee decides to gather some of them.

[Flinn]

With the conclusion of the 2017 MA, I'm making this thread public.

Please read the OP before posting and remember that this is a brainstorming thread, for people to drop in their ideas; rants, arguments, flames will not be tolerated and will be treated as off topic. In any case, the final decisions are always up to the Committee; if anyone likes to appoint for a position in the same, please feel free to contact me about.

[izzi]

I think the main problem (as mentioned in the first post) is that many mods of the warscape engine games are in the steam workshop. Maybe the focus could be on modders that make excellent tools for the community (as they can't really count as mods on the steam workshop).
Also, many modders start small, but I can see lately that there are lesser modders or beginners that actually want to learn to mod. Maybe lack of time or the will to do so.

[Commissar Caligula_]

I've got a few different thoughts I've come up with. Not all of em are compatible.

1 - Increase the number of people on the Mod Committee. There shouldn't be a situation where one person is solely responsible for a particular section, and if they're unavailable that section can't go forward at all (or someone is forced to double up and cover for them). All of us on the Committee were unavailable at one point or another, and it made the situation pretty ad-hoc.


AND/OR


2 - There should NEVER be a situation where someone wins an award simply because no-one bothered to nominate mods, and they automatically win because there is no-one else to vote for.
If there are not enough nominations, I believe that ALL of the mods that are eligible for that section should be automatically included in the vote. This would increase the amount of mods to vote for, and would make it so people don't AUTOMATICALLY win. Whether it would mean different people would actually win or not? idk
Eg if there are 8 mods eligible for that award that year, but only 2 of them are nominated then all 8 will be in the vote.
If like 5 are nominated however, then only those 5 will go to the vote because there is competition and no-one automatically wins.


AND/OR


3 - The Committee should just scrap the process where we have to work out ourselves what mods are eligible or not. It is boring, lengthy, kinda pointless and needlessly delays the awards by like 6 months.
The Committee should only consider whether the mods that have been nominated by players are eligible, rather than working out ourselves the entire list of potential mods.


AND/OR


4 - Create a "best newcomer" award. Whether its for each game, or just the two different engines (Warscape and whatever pre-Warscape is) is up to the Committee.
This award could be available for modders who have started modding in the last 3 years, and have not previously won the award.
I think 3 years would be a good time period, because modders may take a while to reach recognition. I started modding in late 2013 for example, but didn't kick it into gear until 2016.

[Miguel_80]

2 - There should NEVER be a situation where someone wins an award simply because no-one bothered to nominate mods, and they automatically win because there is no-one else to vote for.
If there are not enough nominations, I believe that ALL of the mods that are eligible for that section should be automatically included in the vote. This would increase the amount of mods to vote for, and would make it so people don't AUTOMATICALLY win. Whether it would mean different people would actually win or not? idk
Eg if there are 8 mods eligible for that award that year, but only 2 of them are nominated then all 8 will be in the vote.
If like 5 are nominated however, then only those 5 will go to the vote because there is competition and no-one automatically wins.

If the modder doesn't care about his own mod, or don't enters in the forum, or anything... it means that he doesn't care the Modding Awards and he will not care about the forum. I see the matter of nominations correctly.

Well for Rome Total War / Medieval 2 Total war there are already many and even more are on the works. So keep the situation as it is. For Empire/Napoleon/Shogun its true that there aren't many especially for Empire/Napoleon. We could merge these 2 . For Shogun there are more but its because they are actually 2 games Shogun and Fall of Samurai. Then for Rome II and Attila there are actually work that is doing. And last we could merge the Warhammer's because they have their own fan base.
In the future we could Merge Attila with Thrones of Britannia.

If you fuse the games, the award loses meaning. Empire has nothing to do with Napoleon, and Attila much less with Thrones of Britannia. In my opinion, it would mean "destroying" the Modding Awards.

[Flinn]

Gents, you are expected to propose ideas, not to reject those of the others. Thanks.

[Quintus Hortensius Hortalus]

My first idea is that the modding awards for the past year shall come in January, February of the next year. Having the awards in the mid of the next year makes people forget about the mods of the last year. In addition I think summer is not really the time for mods and modding as people spent more time outsides.

Furthermore I find the idea interesting that we create a committee choice award where some experienced modders or so choose a mod and modder.

Create an award for the best mod tool sounds like an interesting idea too.

[Gaius Baltar]

The modding activity generated by Rome and Med2 has slowly subsided. Subsequent releases have not been as attractive or easy to work with.

Technological changes mean that many people now go to together websites for news, information and mods. It is also likely that the software code itself will become unusable in the near future.

A gradual decline in activity that was noted in the 2009-2010 time frame continues. I don't foresee many scenarios where this is reversed but here is a few ideas.

1. A revolutionary and successful release of a Total War release that is also easily modifiable. Along with this you would have to somehow make the board attractive for mod teams.

2. A successful modification of current material that prolongs its accessibility and popularity. This material would have to meet the criteria for #1 above.

3. The board management changes the format to include some other aspect of gaming that would attract visitors. The Total War series would then be regulated to a supporting role.

Of the above I think option #3 is the most likely scenario.

Currently I would propose a reduction in the number of award categories. Perhaps just "Best Modification 20XX" and "Best Modder 20XX". Would make it more competitive and interesting.

[Leonardo]

I've got a few different thoughts I've come up with. Not all of em are compatible.

1 - Increase the number of people on the Mod Committee. There shouldn't be a situation where one person is solely responsible for a particular section, and if they're unavailable that section can't go forward at all (or someone is forced to double up and cover for them). All of us on the Committee were unavailable at one point or another, and it made the situation pretty ad-hoc.

Maybe you're right and I think this needs to be discussed regarding the modding committee.

4 - Create a "best newcomer" award. Whether its for each game, or just the two different engines (Warscape and whatever pre-Warscape is) is up to the Committee.
This award could be available for modders who have started modding in the last 3 years, and have not previously won the award.
I think 3 years would be a good time period, because modders may take a while to reach recognition. I started modding in late 2013 for example, but didn't kick it into gear until 2016.

I like the idea of having a best newcomer award and that way a less known modder will get more attention for the work one would do in the future.



I also want to add my observation to this discussion.

Before I continue I need to ask a question. Can people get mods for Shogun 2 TW on Steam?

The reason I ask is simple, because I've only played S2TW for 5 hours as I couldn't get into the game and have no idea if one can get mods for S2TW on Steam or not.

That being said, I think the modding community today now have two groups or camps if one prefer to call it; 1: Traditional modding, 2) Modern modding.

1. Traditional modding - Simple means that a modder are using the mod tools available for each game then release the mod by hosting it on a modding hosting site e.g Moddb or Nexus and people go there to download mods.
2. Modern modding - Newer games are integrated with Steam, aside from purchasing or installing a game on Steam, which allow people to download mods via Steam regardless what game engine a game is based on.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Shogun 2 and onwards (Rome 2, Attila, both Warhammers, Thrones of Britannia) have Steam Workshop support. The earlier games don't.

[Lifthrasir]

Maybe you're right and I think this needs to be discussed regarding the modding committee.

I have answered to you in that thread already (see my post under the one you linked)

[Swiss Halberdier]

First of all I would like to thank the whole commitee for their great efforts while creating and managing the awards! It's a huge amount of work and free time the Committee contributed to make all happen through these years.

My thoughts for the next modding awards.

- To streamline the big process for the Committee it should be probably considered if they shouldn't put together anymore these big lists for the nominations. The Committee would only define all categories for each TW game and then the players and modders can nominate the mods into the related categories. This would save the Comittee lots of time and the Awards could be held earlier in the year. The Comittee will then react and check the nominations afterwards if they are eligible for the related categories and move them to the correct voting section if needed.

- Keeping the current separate sections for each TW game and please don't merge them together. They are all different games and need to be handled separately.

- Creating again a "Favourite Mod Tool" overall award and a "Favourite Mod Tool Creator" overall award to honor the guys which produce the tools for us modders.

- Creating again a "Favourite Classical Mod" category for each TW game. In this case the players can also nominate and vote for not updated or not-significantly updated mods which are still downloaded and played by lots of players. Also an overvall "Favourite Classical Modder" award would make sense in this case.

- Create again a "Rising Star/Best newcomer" overall award

- Split the categories into "Major" and "Minor" mods, that big and small mods don't compete with each other.

- Proposals for the categories for each separate TW game. Which categories are useful and can be used for each TW game will be discussed in the Committee.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Favourite Modder

Major mods:

Favourite hosted mod
Favourite overhaul/compilation mod

Minor mods:

Favourite submod (any submod for a hosted or major mod)
Favourite campaign AI mod
Favourite battle map mod
Favourite gameplay mod
Favourite miscellaneous mod
Favourite unit mod
Favourite audio/visual mod

Classical mods:
Favourite Major Classical Mod
Favourite Minor Classical Mod

- Proposals for "overall" awards which are for all TW games

Favourite Mod Tool
Favourite Mod Tool Creator
Rising Star/Best newcomer
Favourite Classical Modder

[Commissar Caligula_]

- Creating again a "Favourite Mod Tool" overall award and a "Favourite Mod Tool Creator" overall award to honor the guys which produce the tools for us modders.

- Creating again a "Favourite Classical Mod" category for each TW game. In this case the players can also nominate and vote for not updated or not-significantly updated mods which are still downloaded and played by lots of players. Also an overvall "Favourite Classical Modder" award would make sense in this case.

Those are being kept AFAIK, but they're being done every second year.

[Lifthrasir]

@ Swiss Halberdier, how would you define the "Classical Modder" category? I mean, who would be eligible in that one: any modder or only those who have released something during the year?

Regarding the "Classical Mod" (major and minor alike), I'd keep them for every second year in order to not dry up the spring (if you get the pic ).

For the rest, I tend to agree with you.

[Swiss Halberdier]

Those are being kept AFAIK, but they're being done every second year.

@ Swiss Halberdier, how would you define the "Classical Modder" category? I mean, who would be eligible in that one: any modder or only those who have released something during the year?

Regarding the "Classical Mod" (major and minor alike), I'd keep them for every second year in order to not dry up the spring (if you get the pic ).

For the rest, I tend to agree with you.

Thanks for the information Caligula and Lifthrasir! Good that the "Favourite Mod Tool", "Favourite Mod Tool Creator" and the "Classical Mod" awards will be still being done every second year.

Yes this is definately a good question who should be eligible in this special "Classical Modder" category. As it is now modders who released something this year are eligible for the "Favourite Modder" award of the related TW games.

For the "Classical Modder" category it could be probably that all modders are eligible who are still active and released something for any TW game during the last 2-3 years. But there wouldn't be a "must" that they release something during this year. The only restriction that they aren't eligible would be if they are fully retired from modding on TWC and not anymore active in the forums.

[Radious]

Good day Everyone!

We all know that awards have smaller and smaller popularity and activity every new year. Modders dont care to nominate their work, players dont care to vote for them. Its really weird when many of the mods on workshop have 50 000 - 150 000 subscribers and then in awards there are few DOZENS of votes....

First what must be done is to make Awards interesting - for modders and players again! Getting shiny logo only usefull on TWC when 95% of all mods moved away from TWC since workshop integration (SHogun 2) is really not interesting for anyone.

Awards need publicity, which currently sucks really big time, absolute majority of people have no clue about them, how is this possible in todays world of internet and social media? There should be constant posts and updates on official forums, workshop forums, facebook/twitter acounts, making video about awards, talk with modders to share info about awards aswell, lure people in and mainly be visible! Also would be good idea to talk with CA about this and maybe join with them to help promote and make awards more interesting, they have more resources and but cant be bothered making own awards just by themselves.

Rewards for winners, yes these need change aswell. There should be free TW games, dlcs, maybe some promotional material for twc awards aswell, something what can be interesting for modders more then icon for twc only. Same as videos about winners, interviews, promotion of their work.

Rewards for players, yes some random lottery, chance to participate in it by voting and winning something could be also good idea. People love these things and way more could get here and nominate/vote.

There is no reason to still think, talk and change categories if these basics are not done to make awards interesting and attractive again for modders and players. Awards require complete overhaul, they require to be modded! :-)

[Sirlion]

2 - There should NEVER be a situation where someone wins an award simply because no-one bothered to nominate mods, and they automatically win because there is no-one else to vote for.
If there are not enough nominations, I believe that ALL of the mods that are eligible for that section should be automatically included in the vote. This would increase the amount of mods to vote for, and would make it so people don't AUTOMATICALLY win. Whether it would mean different people would actually win or not? idk
Eg if there are 8 mods eligible for that award that year, but only 2 of them are nominated then all 8 will be in the vote.
If like 5 are nominated however, then only those 5 will go to the vote because there is competition and no-one automatically wins.

This, absolutely. I have to say, from my own modder perspective, seeing Risorgimento, which is a relatively large overhaul with campaign alterations and multiple factions reworked, being overshadowed by a French ship crew mod (which is good and by all means had its own merit, but... it's small. Very small.) I felt quite underwhelmed. The category itself is too broad as well.

Awards need publicity, which currently sucks really big time, absolute majority of people have no clue about them, how is this possible in todays world of internet and social media? There should be constant posts and updates on official forums, workshop forums, facebook/twitter acounts, making video about awards, talk with modders to share info about awards aswell, lure people in and mainly be visible!

There is no reason to still think, talk and change categories if these basics are not done to make awards interesting and attractive again for modders and players. Awards require complete overhaul, they require to be modded! :-)

Honestly, I couldnt have said it better than this. Full approval.

[Miguel_80]

One proposal (for now...)

In the "Favourite Modder" sections, the user who nominates a modder should mention the work done in the corresponding year. There are many nominations to modders who have not done any work during that year and it is difficult for the Committee to control if the nomination is correct.

Example for Rome 2 in Modding Awards 2017:

Most Popular Modder: Swiss Halberdier (Additional Units Mod - Rome (AUM-ROM) ; KLAssurbanipal (KLA’s Roman Legionaries)