[Experimental Battle Pack] - New stat and combat system (09.03.2018)

[Roma Invicta753]

The only thing the unit Triarii need is a bit buff, since they are way weaker than for example Carthagenian Sacred band unit. BTW KAM, is this new stat system your final decision to keep in the game?

[KAM 2150]

No, as first post says, stuff here are to find new stats and are not reflection of what will be in the mod. Also no, Triarii are not way weaker than Sacred Band, since how they can be way weaker if they have same stats? Actually Triarii have higher morale than them.

Sarkiss, that would not work unless you make their stats equal to elephants in amount of HP and melee attack and defence being 3-4 times larger than any other unit. EB is made on a different enqine, stuff do not work the same way here.

[KennyTheKlever]

Kam were any changes made to the morale system? I just watched one of my cavalry units rout while running down a broken unit at the end of a battle, which I have never seen before.

Besides that, what I have tested seems to be working smoothly with no major differences in hoplite vs sword gameplay that I can see. An elephant unit seemed to do more damage than usual.

I really wish that the large number of instant casualties inflicted on cavalry when charging a pike phalanx could be brought back though...

[lordgeorgr141]

Sweet, but quick comment Macedonian late sacred squadron only has a charge bonus of 7 while the early variant has a bonus of 24

[KAM 2150]

Kam were any changes made to the morale system? I just watched one of my cavalry units rout while running down a broken unit at the end of a battle, which I have never seen before.

Besides that, what I have tested seems to be working smoothly with no major differences in hoplite vs sword gameplay that I can see. An elephant unit seemed to do more damage than usual.

I really wish that the large number of instant casualties inflicted on cavalry when charging a pike phalanx could be brought back though...

That routing thing was here always and will be always here because game often applies rear attack morale penalty when chasing routing guys so if your cavalry was already badly beaten, it will run away.

Large casualties for cav will not be brought back as it is same variable that makes pikes OP vs infantry. It basically applied bonus damage multiplier to unit that is moving toward pikes BUT all units fighting pikes are moving towards them. In other words, when someones is attacked by a pike, there is NO MELEE between them as attacked unit can't defend. For example your unit can have even 100 melee defence and that stat will still not be calculated. Now the faster target is, the larger bonus damage will be applied so light cavalry charging at full speed will take bigger casualties. Also super large casualties are also not a good thing gameplay wise as AI will just suicide own cav that way (plus in real life cavalry would simply not charge pikes that way when it comes to ancient battles).


lordgeorgr141, that is because late version has no lance. I will be upping charge bonus of sword and axe infantry a bit later.

[KAM 2150]

Both files updated!

Changes:

Both:
-fixed some too large bonuses from general combat skills
-fixed stats of naval units

Slower Combat:
-increased charge bonus as current one was too low for increased HP values, cavalry charge kills are applied on impact rather than in melee few seconds after, heavy cavalry especially lethal vs light units.

[KennyTheKlever]

Also super large casualties are also not a good thing gameplay wise as AI will just suicide own cav that way (plus in real life cavalry would simply not charge pikes that way when it comes to ancient battles).

In fairness to the AI, they rarely charge formed spear infantry units unless they are cornered in a city or the player times it perfectly for the unit form up and lower their pikes just as the cavalry commit to their charge. It was what made those moments especially rare and satisfying in battles.

What bothers me is that I remember back about a year ago that pikes seemed to be working alright after constant tweaking for months and they retained that bonus against moving units to be devastating against a cavalry charge. Maybe they were OP against infantry though, because I don't remember using them a lot against proper sword units.

[Dolen]

Is this submod for 1.2.2L1 or 1.2.3?

[lordgeorgr141]

for 1.2.3 it crashes with 1.2.2l1

Hiera ile (late) or late sacred squadron from macedon (antigonida) really needs to get it's charge buffed since even infantry has better charge then it

even if it has no lance surely it must have a bigger charge bonus then infantry?

I personally enjoyed the balance achieved prior in 1.2.2a where despite every unit had 20 health, battles continued onwards for a respectable amount of time due to how low every stat was, what caused the decision to abandon that balance for 1.2.2L and 12.2.3

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

KAM is doing everything possible to achieve the best balance for the mod. Be sure to give constructive criticism and feedback so he could find the sweet spots.

[Dolen]

Somehow change is not taking effect and I still see vanilla stats...

don't mind, I've sorted it out myself

[ThePoshBarbarian]

Damn KAM! You're an *absolute* *m a d l a d*!

[KAM 2150]

for 1.2.3 it crashes with 1.2.2l1

Hiera ile (late) or late sacred squadron from macedon (antigonida) really needs to get it's charge buffed since even infantry has better charge then it

even if it has no lance surely it must have a bigger charge bonus then infantry?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I personally enjoyed the balance achieved prior in 1.2.2a where despite every unit had 20 health, battles continued onwards for a respectable amount of time due to how low every stat was, what caused the decision to abandon that balance for 1.2.2L and 12.2.3

CA patches happened and something got broken in the way combat is calculated. I did love battle balance I had prior to patch 19 but after it, with no changes from me, suddenly inferior infantry started to win frontally vs superior units, even if they had same amount of men per squad and all stats inferior to their target. This experimental pack is me trying to figure out a way around current issues to have similar experience as before.

[Reisdal]

Is it safe to apply this on an ongoing campaign and remove if not wanted?

[KAM 2150]

Yes, should be fine.

Ok, I found the with those Macedonian cav guys, they had incorrect weapon assigned (infantry weapon) so my formulas calculated infantry stats for them.

Both files updated with fix to Macedonian cavalry weapon (and turned out Epirus cav had wrong one too ).

[Elianus]

You might be on to something (many things) here. The combat feels more...fluid. I am not sure how to feel about the formed attack but this pack fixes some major things that bothered me: 1. Seeing naked dudes taking arrows and javs and not dying for some time
2. Seeing naked dudes actually holding against ultra heavy pros for quite a while
The charges feel more realistic now and with a bigger immediate impact.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

.......................
2. Seeing naked dudes actually holding against ultra heavy pros for quite a while
..............

Have you ever actually fought against 'naked dudes'? It's very disconcerting.....

[Elianus]

Have you ever actually fought against 'naked dudes'? It's very disconcerting.....

Does MMA count?

I found it weird that units with no armor, not even clothes, could take so much punishment. Even more so when they were attacked with projectiles.

[Irishmafia2020]

Thanks for including a slower combat version!

[Dolen]

1. Seeing naked dudes taking arrows and javs and not dying for some time
2. Seeing naked dudes actually holding against ultra heavy pros for quite a while
The charges feel more realistic now and with a bigger immediate impact.

I really liked the change too, because I also felt it was weird to find a man with mere cloth surviving multiple arrows... But now armor matters a lot and I like it.
It now feels more like how M2TW combat worked, where armor was actually important.

BTW, some light skirmish cav units have lower charge stats than light foot skirmishers, which seems odd.
Also, perhaps you could lower the weapon damage or increase armor value a bit ? Since long battle is my taste