Trump's America is taking children away from their parents at the border and detaining them separately

[Katsumoto]

$18 billion dollars is a drop in the bucket and the CATO institute produces whatever studies their highest bidder wants. Furthermore, even if there wasn't wall language in the bill, the Dems still would block it because it makes the issue go away.

What am I supposed to do with this post? You dismiss $18 billion dollars as a drop in the bucket, you dismiss a report without addressing any of its points and you wrap it up with unfounded speculation.

A fence worked for Israel, so why can’t a wall work for America?

Because they're very different situations?

On a small scale and with many guards, walls can effectively stop movement, Jones said.

But Israel and the United States’ southern borders are significantly different.

The Israel-Egypt border fence is about 150 miles.

The U.S.-Mexico border is nearly 2,000 miles.

Terrain conditions and number of agents needed to monitor the border are not comparable either, Jones said.

"Most of the Israeli fence goes through open, arid terrain. Easy to access, easy to build, easy to monitor with agents," Jones said.

The U.S.-Mexico border, on the other hand, includes very remote, mountainous terrain and spans the length of four states with cities closely intertwined with Mexico. Trump has said that border has 1 million legal border crossings daily, which experts have told us include people traveling back and forth for school, work and shopping.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ration-99-per/

Anyway, the discussion concerns the separation of families, not the effectiveness of a potential border wall. You don't need a wall to stop separating families.

[Aexodus]

Agreed. You either need to return to catch and release for families with children (which encourages child trafficking) or change the legislation allowing parents to be detained together... in Congress...

[Elfdude]

This is a trump policy, it can be changed by the executive enforcement practices which trump can change at any point more or less arbitrarily.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/62148...e-won-t-own-it

The fact is immigration is still a net gain for the US economy. Blaming poverty on immigration is scapegoating of the worst sort.

[Ludicus]

A fence worked for Israel, so why can’t a wall work for America?

Ah, Israel. Thinking about it, the children should wear compulsory Jewish Mexican badges. There is something utterly wrong with Trump's America, a diseased nation "infected" with immigrants.
Trump's revenge,

If we built the wall, these illegal immigrant kids wouldn’t be separated from their parents because they couldn’t get into our country.

So, until now, 2,000 children were separated from parents in six weeks, and held in cages. There are 100 sites scattered across 17 states and they can be on the other side of the country from their parents.
Migrant father separated from child at US-Mexico border kills himself ...
A 10-year-old with Down syndrome was taken from her immigrant ...

As described in an 18 June 2018 New Yorker article, The Government Has No Plan for Reuniting the Immigrant Families It Is Tearing Apart

No protocols have been put in place for keeping track of parents and children concurrently, for keeping parents and children in contact with each other while they are separated, or for eventually reuniting them.

Enjoy trump's idiocy,

My grandparents didn't come to America all the way from Germany to see it get taken over by immigrants

Enjoy Trump's hypocrisy

Homeland Security @SecNielsen did a fabulous job yesterday at the press conference explaining security at the border and for our country, while at the same time recommending changes to obsolete & nasty laws, which force family separation. We want “heart” and security in America!

Trump offends Germany,

The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition. Crime in Germany is way up. Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!

Offends France, Anger in France over Trump comments on Paris attacks | The Times of

"France is no longer France"..mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired

Offends Britain,
Trump angers Britain with his NRA speech - CNNPolitics


...and praises the North Korea dictator:

I give him credibility

Everything is connected, one way or another,
US withdraws from UN Human Rights Council | The Independent
German MPs demand Donald Trump's US ambassador is expelled

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Trump has announced to stop segregation, but we should wait to next Twitter...

[JP226]

This is a trump policy, it can be changed by the executive enforcement practices which trump can change at any point more or less arbitrarily.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/62148...e-won-t-own-it

The fact is immigration is still a net gain for the US economy. Blaming poverty on immigration is scapegoating of the worst sort.

This is a disgusting post. You forgot the word "legal" in front of immigration and I don't believe anyone is arguing that. Your comments smack of racism and it's disturbing.

[fkizz]

Given half a million illegals got deported under Obama, this points to a systematic flaw that got convenient to bring to light under Trump

[Vanoi]

You do not seem to appreciate that unauthorized crossing of the border is a crime for which a person is arrested and detained. A child presumably does not have the agency to commit the crime so is not prosecuted, but for obvious can't just be released to fend for themselves. They are put into the care of DHHS until the adults case is resolved (usually a day) of in more complicated circumstances placed with a relative in the US after 20 days.

I don't think you understand that US prisons are overcrowded anyways. There is no point whatsoever in jailing illegals. They just eat up tax payer money that way. Many will get out of jail and just cross illegally back into the US starting the whole cycle over again.

[Admiral Piett]

I keep hearing Congress making up excuses for why immigration reform has not even come to committee yet. I keep hearing secure the border. Well, it's about as secure as it's going to be until the wall goes up. Now it's time for them to fix the problem and stop making up about why they can't come up with something to make legal immigration more streamlined. Or is it perhaps now a camp of Republicans agree with Trump's Australian merit based immigration idea?

[Aexodus]

This is a trump policy, it can be changed by the executive enforcement practices which trump can change at any point more or less arbitrarily.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/62148...e-won-t-own-it

The fact is immigration is still a net gain for the US economy. Blaming poverty on immigration is scapegoating of the worst sort.

The law is that you can’t keep the children and the parents together if you’re arresting the parents for commiting a crime, that’s not something you can change with the stroke of a pen.

I don't think you understand that US prisons are overcrowded anyways. There is no point whatsoever in jailing illegals. They just eat up tax payer money that way. Many will get out of jail and just cross illegally back into the US starting the whole cycle over again.

The other way is catch and release, which amounts to illegal immigrants being treated more leniently than citizens when they commit a crime. Citizens don’t have the option of deportation.

[Elfdude]

This is a disgusting post. You forgot the word "legal" in front of immigration and I don't believe anyone is arguing that. Unless, of course you are actively lying and trying to pretend illegal immigration is good. I'm sure you have plenty of brown people doing menial tasks that you yoreself are above and would never pay someone legally to accomplish for you. Your comments smack of racism and it's disturbing.

The bold hypocrisy of accusing me of racism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/u...ort-trump.html

Immigrants bring money to this country which helps everyone, wage depression is a bad thing but immigrants don't usually make lower wages than normal, they tend to make minimum wage because a company loses it's plausible deniability if it's paying them under the table. Any company caught doing that is hit with some pretty stiff penalties. They bring about 63$ billion more than the most liberal estimates of their cost. Overall illegal migrants are 16% more likely to be paid less than minimum wage than legal residents/citizens, this rate disappears when you control for racial demographics i.e. an illegal immigrant is equally likely to be paid under minimum wage as their legal/citizen counterpart. The traditional explanation there is racism, not wage depression. In fact there's a sizable body of data which shows that that wage depression doesn't occur but rather the opposite.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2016/08/25/wage-war

The law is that you can’t keep the children and the parents together if you’re arresting the parents for commiting a crime, that’s not something you can change with the stroke of a pen.

No it's not. Here's a full breakdown: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wa...s-passed-1997/

Also, suddenly trump can use an executive order to reverse Session's policy? How is that not a stroke of the pen.

[Aexodus]

Ah, Snopes. The most reliable of websites.

So you want them to not prosecute people for illegal crossings? The law in question is the one that forces them to separate families if they prosecute the parents.

From your link

It has long been a misdemeanor federal offense to be caught illegally entering the US, punishable by up to six months in prison, but the administration has not always referred everyone caught for prosecution.

So, they’re just enforcing the law more strictly then, the separation is a side affect of that as they can’t detain children who are under the age to be prosecuted.

And one last thing: American citizens who break the law get separated from their children too.

[JP226]

The bold hypocrisy of accusing me of racism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/u...ort-trump.html

Immigrants bring money to this country which helps everyone, wage depression is a bad thing but immigrants don't usually make lower wages than normal, they tend to make minimum wage because a company loses it's plausible deniability if it's paying them under the table. Any company caught doing that is hit with some pretty stiff penalties. They bring about 63$ billion more than the most liberal estimates of their cost. Overall illegal migrants are 16% more likely to be paid less than minimum wage than legal residents/citizens, this rate disappears when you control for racial demographics i.e. an illegal immigrant is equally likely to be paid under minimum wage as their legal/citizen counterpart. The traditional explanation there is racism, not wage depression. In fact there's a sizable body of data which shows that that wage depression doesn't occur but rather the opposit

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/u...ort-trump.html

Someone didn't read their own article... Sigh*

[Elfdude]

Making spurious assertions with no basis to back it up looks good on you.

Ah, Snopes. The most reliable of websites.

So you want them to not prosecute people for illegal crossings? The law in question is the one that forces them to separate families if they prosecute the parents.

No, federal prosecution does not require separation from parents. Folks could use their own discretion, especially with the case of having children. Furthermore in 2005 congress directed the DHS when detention was necessary to house the family units together. This is what occurred, the only real exception was with regards to unaccompanied minors or minors with those not considered their family.

So, they’re just enforcing the law more strictly then, the separation is a side affect of that as they can’t detain children who are under the age to be prosecuted.

No it's not. They have complete discretion of the practice of separating families and in the past have always err'd on not separating families, according to the Government's own statistics 87% of those caught qualify for asylum status, what they're doing is rushing deportation proceedings and using the fear of inhumane tactics to force asylum seekers to return to their country before asylum requests can be processed or granted.

And one last thing: American citizens who break the law get separated from their children too.

This is extraordinarily rare and only usually relevant for severe crimes. SOP are to return the children to closest relatives, in the event no relative exists the severity of the crime is assessed, often alternative routes exist than jail time allowing the parent to be present, especially if they are the only guardian of the child. In the rarest cases children are occasionally placed in foster care. As a note having children is one of the easiest ways to be released from holding until conviction, and most courts are required to have protocols in place in interim proceedings.

[Aexodus]

I will just leave this right here... “In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Reno v Flores. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)The Court in Flores decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.

It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions. A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997.

So, since Donald Trump was running his real estate empire, selling wine and casinos in 1993, we are left to determine just how he managed to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. The obvious answer is, he didn’t. He had nothing to do with establishing this United States immigration policy. Today, he simply enforces it.

This one story illustrates how important it is for us to do our research regarding today’s headlines. The Corporate Media either refuses to do the research, is incapable of doing the research or has done the research and decided to lie to you about its findings. Either way, this would make the Corporate Media lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will.

[Elfdude]

Reno Vs Flores does not mean what you claim it does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_v...ment_agreement Go ahead and read up bud.

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/wh...ily-detention/

The Flores agreement means that the child and the parent should be released with a notice to appear for immigration proceedings, of course clinton and bush and obama interpretted it differently until a federal court ruling in 2015 which affirmed that parents of children should immediately be released with notice to appear for immigration proceedings and cannot be forced to be separated. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...ing.pdf#page=4

The policy of DHS was not to detain family units at all (folks would be served with a notice to appear at immigration court) due to a 2005 congressional instruction after the court noticed ICE was inappropriately detaining and separating families. Note ICE was created in 2003.

Which is to say, the flores agreement, nor the settlement or anything therein requires breaking up families whatsoever.

As a note ICE's use of ATD (alternatives to detention) are significantly less expensive and less problematic than detention facilities. ICE and the trump admin can freely change their policy to favor that and it'd be both cheaper, more ethical and more effective.

[antaeus]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...at-border.html

Keeping the conversation up to date with events on the ground...

[JP226]

Reno Vs Flores does not mean what you claim it does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_v...ment_agreement Go ahead and read up bud.

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/wh...ily-detention/

The Flores agreement means that the child and the parent should be released with a notice to appear for immigration proceedings, of course clinton and bush and obama interpretted it differently until a federal court ruling in 2015 which affirmed that parents of children should immediately be released with notice to appear for immigration proceedings and cannot be forced to be separated. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...ing.pdf#page=4

The policy of DHS was not to detain family units at all (folks would be served with a notice to appear at immigration court) due to a 2005 congressional instruction after the court noticed ICE was inappropriately detaining and separating families. Note ICE was created in 2003.

Which is to say, the flores agreement, nor the settlement or anything therein requires breaking up families whatsoever.

As a note ICE's use of ATD (alternatives to detention) are significantly less expensive and less problematic than detention facilities. ICE and the trump admin can freely change their policy to favor that and it'd be both cheaper, more ethical and more effective.

Seriously dude, you need to quit this BS of not reading anything you put forward. The best thing I can gather is that you find some ridiculous leftwing blog and then spit that out here along with some unrelated links that you think qualify because the headline might or might not sound close to what you are trying to sell. All it means is that children must be released to a legal parent, legal guardian, legal adult relative or an individual specifically designated by the parent, a licensed program or an adult who is seeking custody and whom DHS deems is appropriate. And there are limits on time children can spend in custody with an unrelated adult. Hence the detainment sorting them out and processing them while illegal parents are charged and prosecuted.

[HannibalExMachina]

no further questions, your honor.

[Aexodus]

Question: How is Trump’s executive order legal? How can they detain kids for more than 20 days, or incarcerate them with the parents? Will the judiciary pass it?

If say an American single parent gets jailed, their children get put into care too - they are separated.