Terrorists, wanting soft sentence, blame Trump for making them want to kill muslims.

[mongrel]

Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.1243bbbbc4f0

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...Qzrx51Z47cVoXA



One TWC's refusal to acknowledge a Trump supporter's alleged bombing campaign reminded me of this example of the depths to which US conservative politics has sunk.


Three ultra right-wing militiamen found guilty in April of a conspiracy to kill Muslim refugees living in rural Kansas. Ahead of the 2016 election, Stein and two others plotted with an FBI informant and an undercover agent to bomb an apartment complex that housed Muslims in Garden City. Muslims were referred to as “cockroaches” that had to be exterminated. As usual, these losers were indoctrinated andradicalised by racist media on the web and via Fox News.They face life sentences.

During this week's sentencing hearing, the attorney for one of the convicted(Patrick Stein) argued that that sending him to prison for life was unwarranted and that a sentence of 15 years would be appropriate. Ther reason? Puting aside a drink and drug problem and the quantity of anti-muslim material he read online, the murder plot would only have occured because of Donald Trump's behaviour. The defence sentencing statement said:

“2016 was ‘lit.’ The court cannot ignore the circumstances of one of the most rhetorically mould-breaking, violent, awful, hateful and contentious presidential elections in modern history, driven in large measure by the rhetorical China shop bull who is now our president,”

Does the forum beleive that terrorist plots or attacks can be excused, just because the POTUS is a racist arse?

Shouldn't more work be done on the causes of radicalisation instead, ( I know one constitutional amendnment hampers work on this) rather than shaking fists at Trump, who may merely be the symptom?

[Aexodus]

I’m pretty sure terrorism and the migrant crisis did much more to radicalise anyone more than mean words ever could.

[fkizz]

Does the forum beleive that terrorist plots or attacks can be excused, just because the POTUS is a racist arse?

That's a very important question to both right and left wing.

If you have a bone with Trump, try to solve it via Democracy.

[mongrel]

I’m pretty sure terrorism and the migrant crisis did much more to radicalise anyone more than mean words ever could.

No. For example pretty much every New Yorker will have been impacted by terrorism and migration, many thousands directly. Yet the population hasn't turned into gibbering murderous loons.


Pizzagate is a prime example of how Americans are being converted into the equivalent of Mass Effect Thorian creepers.

A white supremacist Twitter account presented itself as belonging to a Jewish lawyer in New York included a a claim that NYPD found on Anthony Weiner's laptop as part of an investigation into his sexting scandals, the existence of a pedophilia ring linked to members of the Democratic Party. So-called conservative media and their foreign friends hyped up this utter bollocks with embellishments including a satanic element. Several businesses received death threats and some idiot actually walked into Comet Ping Pong restaurant , shot the place up before realising there wasn't a secret basement where the satanic elite buggered kids. Despite this example, another idiot make a threatening call to nearby Besta Pizza because 'he save the kids" and "finish what the other guy didn't.'Madness.

Migrants arrive to the US frequently, just ask any Native American. In itself the existence of migration, even illegal migration, is not cause to wipe out all Jews, is it?

That's a very important question to both right and left wing.

If you have a bone with Trump, try to solve it via Democracy.

That is a fair response.

[conon394]

migrant crisis

The US has one I sorry I missed that? Out side of paranoid white nationalist thinking I can't see one.

-----

just ask any Native American.

Reminds me of an of Far Side with 2 first nations types waving to a Spanish ship with one saying to the other 'did the way they said see you soon sound ominous'...

But Pizzagate is a bit late how about - damn law abiding brown engineers... why make a homicidal white idiotic American look well really stupid because he can't even find his intended target for well murder, because all brown people look alike - maybe they should have badges or something.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/2-indian-americans-shot-mistaken-for-arabs

[mongrel]

The US has one I sorry I missed that? Out side of paranoid white nationalist thinking I can't see one.

-----



Reminds me of an of Far Side with 2 first nations types waving to a Spanish ship with one saying to the other 'did the way they said see you soon sound ominous'...

But Pizzagate is a bit late how about - damn law abiding brown engineers...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/2-indian-americans-shot-mistaken-for-arabs

I remember that brown nerd incident, we covered it in this forum in some detail. Its a good example of what radicalisation combined with ignorance can lead to.You could imagine the Trump Big Bang Theory, one of Trump's 'very fine people' excercising their right to pump Howard and Raj full of lead, coz of all the illegals on campus.

[Heathen Hammer]

I’m pretty sure terrorism and the migrant crisis did much more to radicalise anyone more than mean words ever could.

Pretty much. The reason why such events happen is hardly anything to do with Trump, since these conditions were established decades ago.

[mongrel]

Pretty much. The reason why such events happen is hardly anything to do with Trump, since these conditions were established decades ago.

1933-1945, to be precise.

[Gaidin]

Attorneys are required by law and oath to make whatever crazy arguments they can as they represent their clients to stretch current law and judicial interpretations to make sentences lighter if not get their clients off the hook. This probably won't fly as a legal argument. But the only way you have any ability to view this as coming back on Trump and not the instigators themselves is if you think they shouldn't have attorneys.

I seem to recall elsewhere that Clinton got flak for being a defense attorney to the best of her abilities once. Let's see where this thread goes now.

[Heathen Hammer]

Attorneys are required by law and oath to make whatever crazy arguments they can as they represent their clients to stretch current law and judicial interpretations to make sentences lighter if not get their clients off the hook. This probably won't fly as a legal argument. But the only way you have any ability to view this as coming back on Trump and not the instigators themselves is if you think they shouldn't have attorneys.

I seem to recall elsewhere that Clinton got flak for being a defense attorney to the best of her abilities once. Let's see where this thread goes now.

Well, the only way OP would have made sense if such defense was, in fact, successful, of which I doubt.

[mongrel]

ut the only way you have any ability to view this as coming back on Trump and not the instigators themselves is if you think they shouldn't have attorneys. .

With a defence like that, I think Mr Bean could offer a better service. I note that you are worried about this coming back on Trump, rather than there being a spike of racist terrorists coming out of their closets.

I recall some fascists, one of whom who killed a defenceless woman, indulged themselves by shouting “Jews will not replace us”.Trump regarded them as 'fine people'.


The pipe bomb suspect, where did he get the notion that the attempted murder of broadcasting personnel what justified? Let me guess....

[Gaidin]

With a defence like that, I think Mr Bean could offer a better service. I note that you are worried about this comong back on Trump, rather than there being a spike of racist terrorists coming out of their closets.

I see you miss the point when you cut out 70% of what I say.

Be honest with your response next time.

Also: LOL at me actually thinking this will fly back on Trump. Read slower and learn American English before you reply as well.

[mongrel]

I see you miss the point when you cut out 70% of what I say.

Be honest with your response next time.

Also: LOL at me actually thinking this will fly back on Trump. Read slower and learn American English before you reply as well.

Begone with American English, the Queen's Saxon is the definitive language.

Your impudent response seems to be content free, so I will move on.

I did mention that Trump is perhaps more of a symptom than the cause* of the infiltration of Conservative America by fanatics.

Here's one such example, how the hell would Steve 'Hitler was right' West be chosen as a representative in a functioning democracy?

https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...216387050.html

For that one has to look at ordinary registered Republican voters. Much of Hitler's Germany were off their heads on crystal meth. What's their excuse? .. Wait a minute.....

* The signs were there when good people refused to stand up to the excesses of the Tea Party.

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't think OP really understands how this works or just pretends to not understand it to make a typically incoherent attack on Trump. Its lawyers job to come up with anything to prove that their client is either not guilty or his guilt is reduced. Hence why we have lawyers blaming metal music, video games and now, well, Trump, for similar acts of violence.

[mongrel]

I don't think OP really understands how this works or just pretends to not understand it to make a typically incoherent attack on Trump. Its lawyers job to come up with anything to prove that their client is either not guilty or his guilt is reduced. Hence why we have lawyers blaming metal music, video games and now, well, Trump, for similar acts of violence.

I don't think HH gives much thought about anything he posts.Gaidin too. This is why I can safely say that.


Shouldn't more work be done on the causes of radicalisation instead, ( I know one constitutional amendnment hampers work on this) rather than shaking fists at Trump, who may merely be the symptom?


This line is quite literally the exact opposite of an attack on Trump, is it not?

[Heathen Hammer]

Yeah, we should all give up our individual freedoms for safety against <please underline the reason for current moral panic> white supremacy/ satanic heavy metal music/ violent video games, etc.
A great point to make if you are either closet authoritarian or have no idea how this works. In a lot of cases both, especially if one is praising acts of terror in other thread when it was committed by his antifa heroes.
I don't think even OP now knows what this thread is about.

[Gaidin]

I mean, I can come up with all manner of arguments about how Trump has changed the nature of the culture on the American Right, and whether that research will be made in political science, sociology, and history departments in the coming decades(just as it usually happens with any president), but that has nothing to do with a legal argument being made by a defense attorney much less whether that argument will be legally accepted by judges.

THAT is the banality of what mongrel is saying and why me and HH are seeing eye to eye in this thread.

[mongrel]

Yeah, we should all give up our individual freedoms for safety against <please underline the reason for current moral panic> white supremacy/ satanic heavy metal music/ violent video games, etc.
A great point to make if you are either closet authoritarian or have no idea how this works. In a lot of cases both, especially if one is praising acts of terror in other thread when it was committed by his antifa heroes.
I don't think even OP now knows what this thread is about.

Now you have read what I wrote, confirming that you didn't give one iota of thought to the OP hitherto. Fantastic.

Safety against being murdered by Nazi pricks rates above such mundane things such as 'protection against heavy metal' ( I beleive the genre is accessible throughout the US. Only death itself prevents Lemmy from performing ( and I'm not even sure about that). Violent video games are prevelent everywhere. But do we want Nazis shooting up and bombing the place? Obviously not.

Are you still whining about the slap the wife-beating Richard Spencer received, as well as severl ficional Nazis I mentioned. Unlike those elderly Jews killed recently and indeed Spencer's battered wife, at least Spencer came to little harm.

[Heathen Hammer]

Moral panic is moral panic. It is based on media-induced paranoia about non-substantial threat, be it leather-clad metalheads sacrificing virgins or someone watching Trump speech and becoming a scary minority-huntin' "Nazi". In both cases, such assertions are not backed with statistics, while individual cases that are propagated by the media only work on someone either unfamiliar with how this works, or someone desperate to make an incoherent partisan talking point. Sounds like both in case of the OP.

[mongrel]

Moral panic is moral panic. It is based on media-induced paranoia about non-substantial threat, be it leather-clad metalheads sacrificing virgins or someone watching Trump speech and becoming a scary minority-huntin' "Nazi". In both cases, such assertions are not backed with statistics, while individual cases that are propagated by the media only work on someone either unfamiliar with how this works, or someone desperate to make an incoherent partisan talking point. Sounds like both in case of the OP.

So a racist double homicide , the mass murder of jews in a synagogue and a pipe bombing campaign is a ' non-substantial threat'.And this bomb plot of course. How does that work out?

Note the OP did not mention any musical or any other off-topic genre whatsoever.

Generic whine.

It would be much more efficient if you merely told us you had nothing to say ,wouldn't it?

After all I did offer you a prompt that even HH understood.

Shouldn't more work be done on the causes of radicalisation instead, ( I know one constitutional amendnment hampers work on this) rather than shaking fists at Trump, who may merely be the symptom?