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Thread: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

  1. #1

    Default Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    I'm having problems with the bosporans fielding armies of horse archers, can someone give me an advice on how to fight horse archers?.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Foot archers or slingers are a big help for one, when you're lacking cavalry. Just make sure they're shooting at the HAs.

    I actually made a whole thread about using HAs rather than beating them, but there's some anti-HA tactics in there written by myself and others:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...a-how-to-guide

    14) River battles aren't great for nomadic armies, those battlemaps are better for infantry. A long time ago, in an early EBII saka campaign, I fought the Baktrians near chach with the scraps of my starting army. I did what was traditional for TW players when greatly outnumbered: I occupied a river crossing. This ended up turning into a disastrous defeat, and I realized too late my error...That with a very mobile army including many HAs, I chose to fight a less mobile-army with 1/2 the space I normally had. I quickly retried a battle in open ground, where nomadic tactics excel, by letting the Baktrians cross the river Jaxartes this time. Success! Though bloody, my victory was crushing enough to force a non-force diplomacy ceasefire. HAs can still be good in river battles in general missile support and router chasing roles, but they are best for open ground.

    15) The Lancer and horse archer have both an intimate and antagonistic relationship. Lighter and heavier lancers were an important aspect of several nomadic culture's forms of warfare. Lancers are good for anti-horse archer activities, IF caught in open melee, and employing many fast lancers is certainly a reasonable anti HA tactic. However, lancers also work excellent with HAs. Indeed, after all of my HAs ammo is spent, this is when I bring out my lancers to chase down enemy HAs. In terms of light lancers, having a HA screen and help pin down enemy HAs is very useful as well--as light lancers are very susceptible to missile fire...So there is a simple balance here: Lancers typically win a melee/charge, but if horse archers prevent this charge by evasion, the lancer unit becomes weaker and weaker via missile casualties, or gets tired from chasing fast, enduring HAs; after that happens, they might not stand up in melee anymore. These units are much like brethren, use them together appropriately and they won't let you down.
    Great guide. I'm playing as the Getae, turn 273, my goal from the start was to bring all my tribes under 1 banner, 1 king, 1 empire. To unite the Getae, all Thracians, Scythians, Massagetae, Saka, Dahae etc. It was not fun at all playing 273 turns fighting against CA every single battle. Sadly i was playing an old version 2.2b and just found out now that there is patch for 2.2n (yep i'm blind). Now i have to go trough it all over again ... new campaign, day one.

    The only way to counter CA is with other fast cav, just rush them with 2 fast cav from oposite directions so they can't run away and melee them to death. When i make CA dependent armies i go for 9 CA, 1 General, 2 HC, 8 infantry.

    With my 8 infantry i make a small tight formation, i use the CA to weaken and lure the enemy to my infantry, they atack the infantry then with my CA that has no more arrows and HC and General i surround and hit them from the back = victory.
    I suggest softening them up with foot missiles and then breaking their weakened units with a good ol' fashioned charge. Keep your cavalry in reserve behind a solid infantry and missile line. I keep the infantry in front of the archers/slingers to protect them from cavalry.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    When I was playing as the Bosporans having to fight the Sauromatians, I would put my foot archers behind my hoplites/other heavy infantry, who would soak up arrows for them while they picked off the riders. I'd keep my cavalry in reserve, only charging out every now and then to rout the riders then coming right back again to shelter near the infantry.

  4. #4
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    When I was playing as the Bosporans having to fight the Sauromatians, I would put my foot archers behind my hoplites/other heavy infantry, who would soak up arrows for them while they picked off the riders. I'd keep my cavalry in reserve, only charging out every now and then to rout the riders then coming right back again to shelter near the infantry.
    There's another tactic you can use if you have enough cavalry of your own to pull it off (especially fast light cavalry). Enemy horse archers naturally want to pepper you with arrows and keep their distance from the major melees of the battle, avoiding direct contact with your units. If you have two cavalry units to spare with fresh amounts of energy (i.e. not exhausted from running around already), you can give chase to the enemy horse archer unit with one of your cavalry while sneakily swooping your other cavalry unit around to the side and if you can manage it right behind the fleeing enemy horse archers. If they don't rout immediately from noticing how screwed they are, they will attempt to fight one or the other unit. However, they usually rout once the second cavalry unit of yours charges and slams into them from the side or the rear.

    It's obviously easier to achieve this with three or more cavalry units, but it can be done with just two of them given an open terrain and lack of nearby enemy cavalry that can rush to support their brethren and even the odds.

  5. #5
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    There're a few foot archers and slingers that have a stunning range and can really hit HA first, I believe. I know the Hellenistic ones - Sphendonetai slingers have 190 (the other ones slightly above 100), Kretikoi Toxtotai 180 (the other archers also slightly above 100, perhaps more in the other parts of the world).

  6. #6

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    There're a few foot archers and slingers that have a stunning range and can really hit HA first, I believe. I know the Hellenistic ones - Sphendonetai slingers have 190 (the other ones slightly above 100), Kretikoi Toxtotai 180 (the other archers also slightly above 100, perhaps more in the other parts of the world).
    Skythian Archers have good range, too, and are widely available as mercs.

  7. #7
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    To all of these I would add Balearic slingers, who can be recruited in and around the Western Mediterranean, but that's admittedly pretty far from the Pontic Steppe and Black Sea region. Aside from the Scythian foot archers, the Thureopherontes Toxotai foot archers can also be recruited in the northern half of the Black Sea region.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Place two cheap javelin units in front of your spears little bit to the side of your main line and toggle off the skirmish ability. These two units are default in loose formation and are there to draw horse archer fire to itself, they are useless for anything else anyhow. Put four foot archers behind your spear line in loose formation and toggle off fire at will, so as not to lose arrows. When HA are in range individually attack them by your foot archers while they waste time shooting the levies.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Instead of out shooting them, you could also go hand to hand versus those HA but you need something fast enough to catch them. Since they are so weak in melee, you should get some medium cav as they are fast and have enough armor to weather arrows from supporting units. Maybe some light cav units could do the trick, but Iīm guessing melee stats and large shields would be key for selection.

    In any case, you should aim to at least drive HA off commanding positions like hills so their arrows do far less damage if you canīt catch the HA or if you are using an archer force to counter them (on foot or on horseback) and want that height advantage for more range and damage.

    When you come upon heavier versions of HA you should still be capable enough in melee with your mediums but you did bring heavy lancers to the fight to counter enemy lancers right??? They come in real handy against anything heavy that is stuck in melee and canīt run away from you.

    Consider having an all cavalry stack yourself, as you will get more movement points per turn and your general will gain specialization in traits, especially if his cultural profile tends towards nomadic, so youīll gain advantages in the operational and tactical spheres to keep those nomads out of your lands

    Anyway, its fun to play all cav stacks if you arenīt nomadic faction...
    Last edited by Nightsh4de; June 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Any advice on how to fight horse archers?

    Just realized my comments are geared towards fighting nomadic stacks full of HA and HLancers, as I guess thats far more problematic than dealing with a couple of HA in a mixed army? I play Getai a lot so when I think HA I have nightmares about full nomadic stacks lol

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