Macedonia Naming Dispute: Solved?

[HannibalExMachina]

dunno where you got the rape part, because thats not in there

[95thrifleman]

Could be worse, I cringe everytime I see a yank in a kilt.

[Kritias]

All critics here miss one very important thing: politics are rarely about politics, nationalism, irredentism or whatever. And even when it seems that it is, it serves an economic purpose behind the political front. Why doesn't Greece's people want Macedonia to be named just Macedonia? Trademarks and tourism. Simple as that. They stand to loose money.

Take Vergina's star for example and then put that in a product and sell it world-wide. No matter where it is displayed, that one company will get the profit from the sale. Now, assume that a second product bares the Vergina's star as a trademark - now the first company is in danger of loosing profit based on brand recognition to another company. So, the easy way to deal with that is to make the matter political and deny companies coming from that part of the world ie the Republic of Macedonia the use of those specific trademarks. Problem solved. Example


.

What has the Republic of Macedonia been doing all these years? They were encroaching on these very trademarks by making a national narrative of continuation from the ancient Macedonian Kingdom. What does the agreement include? That a special commitee will form with specialists who will decide what trademarks can be used by the Republic of Macedonia.

So, this issue is as petty as any commercial dispute has ever been. Check commercial law cases and you'll see millions of those ers.

Why has it become an issue? Because the businessmen who own the press also own trading companies. Shocker, I know. So they are whipping people in a frenzy to force the government into protecting their profits. I imagine the same goes in the Republic of Macedonia, too.

Having said that, there's also the political expediency on a grander scale. Who benefits from the agreement? Nato and EU who get to lock down the whole area neatly, blocking out the Russian influences. And if I'm not mistaken lately the entire Nato has declared very pleased on the agreement. Again, shocker.

Lastly, there are people in here who continue to trashtalk Greece for its politics. Before you do that again, I'd suggest you keep in mind the following:

a) It's called the Powderkeg of Europe for a reason. Our neighbours don't deal in maple surup, or tulips, or waffles. A quick recap of most threads circling around Balkan diplomacy can inform you of what people are like. Doom-and-gloom is been going on for centuries around here for some countries benefit. Read some global history before you talk.
b) If you hint towards the economic situation of Greece in your posts, you better start reading some economic history. You'll see a lot of your own countries are involved in making the crisis. Check your proviledge before you talk.
c) When our companies want something we don't go bomb and invade around. We can't, truth be told, or else we would I suspect. Again, check your priviledge.
d) If you're spewling nonsense about Greece your media is generating, check the statistics in Eurostat - we're working the longest in Europe, and are still in the 50 richest countries of the world, even after the chaos of the crisis. And we didn't own any colonies, involved in slave trade, or all the nice stuff your country has probably done. Check your priviledge dude!

[BHL 20]

Congratulations to Northern Macedonia for being the bigger country and agreeing to a compromise.

[Alastor]

Congratulations to Northern Macedonia for being the bigger country and agreeing to a compromise.

As opposed to Greece that didn't? Bias much?

[Cyclops]

Let's not forget northern mythology, where Loki (an actual god) gets raped by a giant horse

Spoilers mate, I haven't seen Infinity war yet.

[HannibalExMachina]

Spoilers mate, I haven't seen Infinity war yet.

not gonna lie, i hear the directors cut will be BRUTAL.

[Sir Adrian]

Now that you mention it we balkaners have a lot of myths about horses. There's a book just waiting to be written by someone inclined to philosophy and myth

*stare creepily at Kyriakos*

[HannibalExMachina]

as mike pence said: there is nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse.

[Admiral Piett]

I'm glad they settled on the name I suggested six years ago. Northern or Upper Macedon has a good ring to it. Better than FYROM and better than just being outright Macedonia.

[Kyriakos]

Now that you mention it we balkaners have a lot of myths about horses. There's a book just waiting to be written by someone inclined to philosophy and myth

*stare creepily at Kyriakos*

Hey, if that rape-by-horse wasn't in the Loki myth, i was just misled by some mischievous northman who claimed so.
What if it was Loki himself who misled me? Wouldn't that still count for messed-up northern psyche?

Edit: actually, though, at least google has loads of hits on raped Loki. Eg:

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/crack...02000946786305

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearn..._the_child_of/

And even Wiki confirms that Loki was raped by a horse, and actually the story is even worse:

In Norse mythology, Sleipnir (Old Norse "slippy"^[1] or "the slipper"^[2]) is an eight-legged horse ridden by Odin. Sleipnir is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Sleipnir is Odin's steed, is the child of Loki and Svaðilfari, is described as the best of all horses, and is sometimes ridden to the location of Hel. The Prose Edda contains extended information regarding the circumstances of Sleipnir's birth, and details that he is grey in color.

So Odin employes the horse-child Loki gave birth to after being raped by a giant horse.

Northerners

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

We have a Rich history

On Topic: good to see a name is settled now.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Hey, if that rape-by-horse wasn't in the Loki myth, i was just misled by some mischievous northman who claimed so.
What if it was Loki himself who misled me? Wouldn't that still count for messed-up northern psyche?

Edit: actually, though, at least google has loads of hits on raped Loki. Eg:

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/crack...02000946786305

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearn..._the_child_of/

And even Wiki confirms that Loki was raped by a horse, and actually the story is even worse:



So Odin employes the horse-child Loki gave birth to after being raped by a giant horse.

Northerners

That's what eating random mushrooms in the woods does to you!

[Maced0n]

The main argument of the Greek side was the irredentism associated with the name Macedonia.

What about Nord Macedonia. Each North have a south. It's pretty natural for South and north to join sometimes in the future. There is so much Irredentism in this new name.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

North Macedonia is more fitting since the country doesn't even occupy 50% of the modern Macedonia region.

Imagine Germany naming it self Europe.

Or the US naming it self North America. (Random people sometimes call them "Americans", however the official name of the country isn't America obviously)

You see that it would be problematic for various reasons.

This is about the use of the name for official capacity, no one forbids you to call your self Macedonian, and you don't have to say you are a North Macedonian in every day speech or when people ask you.

[Aexodus]

The main argument of the Greek side was the irredentism associated with the name Macedonia.

What about Nord Macedonia. Each North have a south. It's pretty natural for South and north to join sometimes in the future. There is so much Irredentism in this new name.

Exactly. Why do you think we call this the Ulster Banner and not the North Irish flag.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Maced0n]

Ethnic and regional identification are very different, but since the deal is almost done there is no point proving it anymore.

So now, you as a Greek don't have a problem calling me Macedonian?

Exactly. Why do you think we call this the Ulster Banner and not the North Irish flag.

I guess you have your own version of "Greece" there.

[Alastor]

What about Nord Macedonia. Each North have a south. It's pretty natural for South and north to join sometimes in the future. There is so much Irredentism in this new name.

Indeed, as I said in the very first page of this thread this, along with the recognition of the language/ethnicity as just Macedonian, are some of the primary reasons the Greek public doesn't like the deal. Not that this government particularly cares about the preferences of the Greek public.

[Kyriakos]

I wouldn't have an issue if they were named "Slavic Macedonia", and the language "slavic macedonian". Of course they wouldn't (there is also the large albanian minority which wouldn't want that), but even "slavic Macedonia" would have been MASSIVELY better a name than "northern Macedonia" and "macedonian" as nationality.
Personally i doubt the deal will actually become official (it can fall in Fyrom, or just not pass parliament here, but my bet is it will fall in Fyrom already), but it is overall a very bad deal.
For various reasons (ranging from humanitarian to realism) i would accept a name like "Slavic macedonia" and "slavic macedonian" for the population. For the same reasons i do not accept at all the current 'northern macedonian' etc.
PS: Tsipras is a major POS for not having a referendum here on this. And good for the fyromian parliament that it will have a referendum for its citizens as well as a vote in parliament on this.

[Maced0n]

Indeed, as I said in the very first page of this thread this, along with the recognition of the language/ethnicity as just Macedonian, are some of the primary reasons the Greek public doesn't like the deal. Not that this government particularly cares about the preferences of the Greek public.

Its called compromise, both sides should be equally unsatisfied in order to work. Macedonia needs to enter NATO/EU and Greece needs EU money, public doesn't matter.