Will the West go ‘Pop’? Populism sweeps Europe and America

[Aexodus]

So we’ve had Donald Trump, we’ve had Brexit, we’ve had Austria, and we’ve had Italy. But it seems we haven’t seen the end of populism yet.

With Donald Trump, we saw how a populist message strongly resonated with the states, resulting in a red wave for the Republican party.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In Brexit, we saw what was maybe an unexpected turn of patriotic populism, where Brits voted to leave the EU in the face of predicted economic hardship (the majority of which was vastly overblown by the estabilishment to scaremonger a remain vote) mainly on a platform of taking our sovereignty back from Brussels, and along with immigration, not much else at all really.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Italy has voted in a populist government as well, and I think this video kind of sums up the public mood in that country.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But it doesn’t stop there. We have the Visegrad group of Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, all quite staunchly right wing.

We have Austria, which has recently closed down 7 mosques and kicked out 60 Imams.

The man who said ‘The Koran is a fascist book’, Geert Wilders, heads the largest parliamentary opposition party in Holland.

In Slovenia a supposed far-right and anti-immigration party has won an election there, and is currently forming a government as we speak.

Even in Sweden and Canada it seems populism is growing! The nationalist, anti-immigration Sweden Democrats topped the polls in November, and in Ontario, Canada, a populist Conservative has recently won a decisive victory on a populist platform, interstingly in that case immigration didn’t play a large part if any in the campaign platform. It’s worth noting Ontario is their most populous and industrial province.

I could go on, but it’s clear a political revolution is taking place in the West, what with The National Front in France, AFD in Germany etc etc, and some people need to get ready for it.

Reading material:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cracy-populism
http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-populism/

Post your thoughts, what effect do you think this could have on the future of the west, and on western democracy in general? Does it have the power to stop mass immigration, and limit the tyrannical buerocracy of the EU?

[Raubritter]

When was the west not "pop"? Everyone that talks about greek democracy as the birth of the West never read any of the texts from that time how their democracy worked. it was always populistic, meaning aggressiv and "mean" and vulgar. The kind of populism we have today is a soft rag compared to this. Its also a mistake to think populism is right wing since the most primitive forms of emotional and material bribery you find on the left.

But its nice to see that things get spiced up again. We were plagued too long by this pathetic feminized form of public debate where speech is policed and you have to be nice when in the end everyone knows that its emotional pandering in its most pathetic form. So thank the Gods for these dumb Boomer Reproduction patterns that left western countries with a solid male surplus in the millennial generation, which means these guys will shape the debate not just because they can now outvote the women, but also because they have no real alternative anyway.

Also i think its good that political debate gets more and more impossible. Its a waste of time anyway.

[removeduser_487563287433]

So we’ve had Donald Trump,

His campaign under active investigation for collaboration with the Russian state

we’ve had Brexit,

An economic and political disaster, with no progress in two years

we’ve had Austria,

Clearly not learning from their past

and we’ve had Italy.

Already climbing down on their policies when confronted with the markets/actual math:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-it...-idUKKBN1J60D9

I am not worried. Seems morons just want to learn a painful lesson as to where their stupidity gets us all.

[antaeus]

When I started school, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic were all dictatorships. The US had a movie star who said stupid stuff for a president. The biggest threat to the west was a big communist country experimenting with capitalism. North Korea had a nuclear program and Iran was the devil.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Aexodus]

Italy: Already climbing down on their policies when confronted with the markets/actual math:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-it...-idUKKBN1J60D9

I am not worried. Seems morons just want to learn a painful lesson as to where their stupidity gets us all.

I don’t know about that.

https://www.ft.com/content/7c6b73a4-...3-6c13e5c92914

Italy’s new populist government has refused to allow a rescue boat carrying 629 migrants the right to dock in its ports, leaving the vessel run by a French charity stranded in the central Mediterranean as Rome seeks to crack down on immigration.

Matteo Salvini, leader of the far-right League and the new interior minister, announced the decision after his demand that Malta take in the ship instead was turned down earlier in the day. “Everyone in Europe is minding their own business,” Mr Salvini wrote on Twitter. “From today even Italy is starting to say NO to human trafficking, NO to the business of illegal immigration. My goal is to ensure a serene life for these kids in Africa and our children in Italy,” he said.

Some guy, this Salvini.

[antaeus]

I don’t know about that.

https://www.ft.com/content/7c6b73a4-...3-6c13e5c92914


Some guy, this Salvini.

Meh. Australia has been doing exactly that for 30 years. They even set up concentration camps on third world islands. Hardly makes Australia a right wing dictatorship.

[Aexodus]

And it doesn’t make Italy one either, just because they want to have borders.

[antaeus]

And it doesn’t make Italy one either, just because they want to have borders.

Immigration is an easy win for nationalists. Changing things like the currency because of nationalist pre election promises without nose diving your economy is not such an easy win. The point Ferrets is making is that it's easy to spruik populist policy on the election trail. It's much harder to make policy work after the election when you have the books to balance. Just ask Trump about that wall.

Edit: I'm not saying a lot of their policy won't become reality. It's just that populists tend to want to hit the ground running and be the party of radical change. Then reality hits and they have to work very hard over long periods if they want to make change happen. then it's no longer radical.

[Aexodus]

That’s true, and the actual feasibility is certainly a big issue for populist governments, so he’s right there. Nevertheless, this thread was more about discussing the rising will for and popularity of nationalism in Western countries.

[antaeus]

That’s true, and the actual feasibility is certainly a big issue for populist governments, so he’s right there. Nevertheless, this thread was more about discussing the rising will for and popularity of nationalism in Western countries.

Ha... you and my edit up above aligned...

The irony is that mild centre right governments sitting for 2 terms can mildly affect revolutionary changes to society in palatable ways much more effectively. Often the result of populism is counter populism in the other direction. Pendulum swings.

[Raubritter]

The irony is that mild centre right governments sitting for 2 terms can mildly affect revolutionary changes to society in palatable ways much more effectively. Often the result of populism is counter populism in the other direction. Pendulum swings.

What is ironic about that? You wanna see something ironic then it is how the now right wing populism in europe is already the counter populism of the left wing populism of the boomers. All these euro right wing parties are fueld by the former lefti boomers who now that they are old don't like the results of their yesteryear politics.

[Aexodus]

Actually young people are moving away from the left in big way too. Generatio Z and all that.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7557351.html

[Sar1n]

Good. Populism is first step in public actually taking interest and in educating itself in politics. Compared to voting by tradition with no relation to actual policies and successes of parties and low overall political engagement of public (voter turnouts in 50-60% range) that's been dominating western "democracies", it's certainly a step forward.

[antaeus]

Good. Populism is first step in public actually taking interest and in educating itself in politics. Compared to voting by tradition with no relation to actual policies and successes of parties and low overall political engagement of public (voter turnouts in 50-60% range) that's been dominating western "democracies", it's certainly a step forward.

I'm not sure that people educating themselves is much at play in populism. It's more a case of "this politician is shouting things that my cognitive bias likes"

Like all politics. People don't get educated. They just get given a bunch of mantras to repeat that align with their preexisting values. Populists say things people want to hear. There is no educated populace involved.

[Raubritter]

Actually young people are moving away from the left in big way too. Generatio Z and all that.

In germany for example you have twice as many boomers as Millennials. Generation Z is even less and around 40% are migrants. Their vote simply don't matter. Europe is a tyranny of old boomer idiots. And yes, the youth is not just moving to the right, they are also more polarized. Today you are either a crazy SJW who wants to tax everyone not for the worker, but to shape it all into a golden dildo that he can put up his own rectum, while on the right no youngster cares about christian values, but simply to get rid of the others with all means necessary. I'm a tail end gen-x maybee very early millennial and in my age group no one voted left, to my suprise even the most normie people voted AfD, even most of them are just as part of the problem as the people who brought us into this mess. Just because they are right doesn't mean they are virtious. Many people who go for right wing populism simply want to defend their own degeneracy and thats why they argue with all that garbage about how Islam is a threat to gays and sluts.
Your right wing youth trend is most likely because of migrants who wanna behead soyboys and rape blue haired feminists to death in some ISIS video.

Sar1n"[/COLOR]]Populism is first step in public actually taking interest and in educating itself in politics.

Nonsense. These people are not educated at all they are plebs going for bait. And thats the great evil of democracy that it politizises every aspect of life and constantly coerces people to have an opinion who would be better off without. In the end the whole rotten system has to die.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don’t know about that.

https://www.ft.com/content/7c6b73a4-...3-6c13e5c92914


Some guy, this Salvini.

I worked on human trafficking when I was at Parliament, and I guarantee that if Italy does pursue an extreme course on barring migrants and refugees, this will play massively into the hands of human traffickers, whose markets and prices will expand immediately.

This is the problem with populists and the idiots who support them with no scrutiny: you are massively more interested in sound bites than complicated realities.

[Aexodus]

Well the guys that have been working on human trafficking in Italy like yourself the past few years haven’t exactly done a stellar job

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well the guys that have been working on human trafficking in Italy like yourself the past few years haven’t exactly done a stellar job

Yeah? And what are you basing that on? Got a source, or you just swallowing more alt-right bollocks whole?

[Raubritter]

Don't you know that enforcing the law makes it harder for people breaking the law?


lol drumpf destroyed

[removeduser_487563287433]

Don't you know that enforcing the law makes it harder for people breaking the law?


lol drumpf destroyed

The law was already enforced.