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Thread: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

  1. #41

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Are you seriously quoting yourself? No one here said anything close to that.
    That's the summary of Bourdains' views, at least based on what he said in public.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  2. #42

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    If it wasn't for the fact that this kind of hysterical screeching is echoed on the vast majority of media all the time(NYT,WaPo,CNN,USAToday,Newsweek, Vox,Vice, Buzzfeed,Wired,LATimes, Globe and Mail, Politico sometimes The Economist and the Financial Times) that it has translated to a variety of campus and corporate policies under the buzzwords of ''diversity and inclusion officers'' and the fact that the academia's political stance is overwhelmingly skewed, something that liberals love to brag all the time, then yeah it'd be insignificant.

    It really isn't. It's hard to find a major organization, whether it's corporate or the academia in the US, that isn't high on this diversity/inclusion/empowerment fad.
    .
    Sure, this crap is omnipresent in universities / the media. But that's not the foremost reason for the fragmentation of society.
    FOr 100s of years, priests have lectured on the vanities of life. The hunt for luxury, lust, honour etc were seen as sinful temptations. People were taught to turn the other cheek etc. That didn't turn Europeans into pacifistic treehuggers. A few became monks/nuns.
    A noble would go to church in the morning, but that wouldn't stop him from fighting, drinking, whoring etc.

    People of the 68 generation were hardcore marxists in university. Guess what: as soon as they received their first paycheck, they became the same burgeois like everyone else: big house, big car, marriage.

    Being marxist/SJW is a thing in university. Once that's over, most people abandon that and live a normal life. If they don't, then there's sth else going on. The erosion of the family (and society as a whole: think of associations etc) has other reasons.
    Last edited by Candy_Licker; June 15, 2018 at 11:38 AM.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Candy_Licker View Post
    Sure, this crap is omnipresent in universities / the media. But that's not the foremost reason for the fragmentation of society.
    FOr 100s of years, priests have lectured on the vanities of life. The hunt for luxury, lust, honour etc were seen as sinful temptations. People were taught to turn the other cheek etc. That didn't turn Europeans into pacifistic treehuggers. A few became monks/nuns.
    At a certain point during the Byzantine Empire, birthrates were crumbling because everyone was becoming either a nun or a monk. Sort of unique, but it happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy_Licker View Post
    A noble would go to church in the morning, but that wouldn't stop him from fighting, drinking, whoring etc.

    People of the 68 generation were hardcore marxists in university. Guess what: as soon as they received their first paycheck, they became the same burgeois like everyone else: big house, big car, marriage.

    Being marxist/SJW is a thing in university. Once that's over, most people abandon that and live a normal life. If they don't, then there's sth else going on. The erosion of the family (and society as a whole: think of associations etc) has other reasons.
    People still become more conserative as soon as they see taxation eroding their pay check, that's true. Even Millennials who were overwhelmingly pro Obama and Hillary are dropping their support for Democrats as they are now steadily into the job market.
    https://in.reuters.com/article/usa-e...-idINKBN1I10YR

    Though I wouldn't be surprised if it's also the SJW extremism driving them away. Nonetheless, even if it's a university thing or media thing, it's still incredibly bad. We already allowed a fringe to essentially take over the highest level of education and the media discourse of mainstream media; that alone makes college quite the scam.
    You have UMich wasting 85$ million over ''diversity and inclusion'' policies.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...85m-diversity/

    How's this funded? By the student debt. So millennials are now indebted well into their 30s because of a bunch of ideological extremists that run college campuses? That's an economic nonsense to begin with and educational too. Instead of providing new generations with tools to survive, allegedly the goal of university education, they make them extremist activists that know nothing and will struggle in life to repay their debt.

    It's a massive disservice to society. Then of course they can't repay their debts, their jobs suck, they get depressed and suicidal. All thanks to ''education''.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    At a certain point during the Byzantine Empire, birthrates were crumbling because everyone was becoming either a nun or a monk. Sort of unique, but it happened.

    People still become more conserative as soon as they see taxation eroding their pay check, that's true. Even Millennials who were overwhelmingly pro Obama and Hillary are dropping their support for Democrats as they are now steadily into the job market.
    https://in.reuters.com/article/usa-e...-idINKBN1I10YR

    Though I wouldn't be surprised if it's also the SJW extremism driving them away. Nonetheless, even if it's a university thing or media thing, it's still incredibly bad. We already allowed a fringe to essentially take over the highest level of education and the media discourse of mainstream media; that alone makes college quite the scam.
    You have UMich wasting 85$ million over ''diversity and inclusion'' policies.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...85m-diversity/

    How's this funded? By the student debt. So millennials are now indebted well into their 30s because of a bunch of ideological extremists that run college campuses? That's an economic nonsense to begin with and educational too. Instead of providing new generations with tools to survive, allegedly the goal of university education, they make them extremist activists that know nothing and will struggle in life to repay their debt.

    It's a massive disservice to society. Then of course they can't repay their debts, their jobs suck, they get depressed and suicidal. All thanks to ''education''.
    I agree, the push into universities is part of the problem. But the crap with gender studies etc is again a massive oversimplification.

    People flog university because the office jobs for people with medium education are disappearing fast. The job market is becoming divided between academic jobs and working class jobs/ crappy jobs in the service indutry.

    NOt everybody is fit to be a academic in a "useful" field, and supply for these is not unlimited either way.

    (Job) uncertainty, forced flexibility/mobility and/or financial troubles are not limited to people with "bs degrees" you know. And the massive increase of study costs in certain countries is questionable either way.
    Last edited by Candy_Licker; June 15, 2018 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    That's the summary of Bourdains' views, at least based on what he said in public.
    So he actually said those words? If not, they are your words and you are literally telling someone what their own views are.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    America’s rising suicide rate
    https://www.economist.com/democracy-...n/tw/te/bl/ed/

    ''Poor white men are particularly at risk''.

    The effect of ''positive'' discrimination. The liberal genocidal agenda is in full swing.




  7. #47

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    So he actually said those words? If not, they are your words and you are literally telling someone what their own views are.
    He never said anything of the sort, I debunked this thoroughly in another thread.

    Sukiyama

    The "ban white people" thing was actually Bourdain filming in Houston, and in attempt to emphasize that it's a melting pot of different cultures and people despite being in possible the "Whites" and most "American" region of the states, he deliberately chose not to include White people in the episode. There should be no controversy as the intention is obvious. That there are White people in Houston is obvious, hence why excluding them to emphasize other people and cultures is a worthy goal of pointing out the level of multiculturalism in America's "Whitest" city.
    I don't know why people are so adamant about lying about Bourdain and whatever his beliefs are, but the idea that he wanted some kind of an ethnic cleansing of White people is absurd. Oh wait, I know why, it's because he's a staunch liberal who used his culinary expertise as a medium for his ideology. Fairly harmless considering he also made a show that was critically acclaimed, but hey. Those darn liberals! Trying to take away America from the White race!

  8. #48

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    So he actually said those words? If not, they are your words and you are literally telling someone what their own views are.
    He expressed such views, as indicated in post #5.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  9. #49

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    He expressed such views, as indicated in post #5.
    But you quoted. So either you quoted yourself or someone else. You are indicating your quoted yourself interpreting the position of someone else. Do you not see a problem with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    The effect of ''positive'' discrimination. The liberal genocidal agenda is in full swing.
    Yes, the liberal genocide plan is to convince white men (many of which are liberal) to kill themselves. Genius plan.

    Do you feel no shame for politicizing suicide in such an absurd way?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Why do you think it's white men who are the worst hit then?

    It's not like there isn't an entire media narrative against toxic masculinity and white privilege. Oh no. I'm the bad one. Not your side which targets the most suicidal group with racial and gender discrimination. I should be the one to be ashamed.

    Not on this planet.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Why do you think it's white men who are the worst hit then?
    I already gave out an idea, but it is admittedly weak. The motivation for suicide can be very complex and mysterious. No one knows for sure. The "media narrative" isn't very convincing; do you have any other demonstrations of media narrative driving suicide trends upwards over time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    It's not like there isn't an entire media narrative against toxic masculinity and white privilege. Oh no. I'm the bad one. Not your side which targets the most suicidal group with racial and gender discrimination. I should be the one to be ashamed.

    Not on this planet.
    I get it, you hate "the media". Just because you hate it doesn't mean people are killing themselves over it. Gotta let go of that angst, man, it is apparently messing with your perception of...everything.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain: How the press can cover suicide without creating a 'contagion'



    by Tom Kludt @tomkludt June 9, 2018: 10:06 AM ET













    Two icons took their own lives this week, forcing the news media to grapple with one of the most painful and challenging subjects.

    After news broke Friday that the roving journalist Anthony Bourdain had died of an apparent suicide, the Poynter Institute re-published a story detailing how the press often exacerbates matters in the ensuing coverage.

    The story, written by Poynter VicePresidentKelly McBride, was originally published in 2014. As if to underscore the recurring horror of suicide, McBride also shared the story on Tuesday, when the world learned that fashion designer Kate Spade had also taken her life.
    News coverage of Spade's death, McBride said on Twitter, "is exactly the kind of news story that can lead to a contagion if the details are reported irresponsibly."






    But days later, when the press had to confront yet another grim story in the death of Bourdain, McBride said she saw an improvement.
    "I think most of the people who are covering Anthony Bourdain aren't making as many mistakes because they covered something similar earlier this week," she told CNN in a phone interview Friday.
    story continued
    "I think we're getting there," McBride said. "I think most organizations in the next 12 months will have these written in their code."
    On Twitter, McBride listed a set of guidelines for reporting responsibly on suicide, including providing readers with "resources for people who need help." In the wake of Bourdain's death on Friday, many news outlets -- including CNN, where Bourdain hosted a show -- directed readers and viewers to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
    Dr. John Draper, the executive director of National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, said he noticed an uptick in media outlets' promotion of the lifeline number (1-800-273-8255) following the death of actor Robin Williams in 2014. Williams' death was followed by the largest sustained spike in calls to the number, according to Draper.
    "And that was entirely due to the media's reporting and the inclusion of the number," Draper told CNN. "That was probably the beginning of doing the right thing in a widespread way."
    "The more ubiquitous the number is, the more people are calling," he said.
    Related: How to get help for someone who might be suicidal
    McBride also urged journalists to avoid lionizing the victim, oversimplifying the cause of death and sensationalizing the outpouring of grief. She also advised against wading into the explicit details of the means of death; "the less graphic and specific, the better," she wrote.
    Details of Spade's death were quickly and widely reported. Reporting on those facts can become problematic in the online media environment, where news spreads like wildfire and is often accepted as truth before it is even verified. But adhering to that guideline may run counter to the journalistic impulse to provide readers with as much information as possible.
    McBride said she saw some examples in the coverage of Spade's death "that did not adhere to the best practices, specifically because they mentioned the means of death and provided specific details in headlines."
    She acknowledged the balancing act of reporting on the nature of a suicide but said that downplaying the exact cause of death, including keeping it out of headlines, can help prevent a contagion.
    "I think you can report it minimally. You can put it low in the story," she said. "You don't have to keep repeating it in subsequent stories."
    "Our duty is to inform, and I get that," McBride added. "Individual reporters can't really be responsible for that. Organizations have to own that. We have to create standards in organizations that are organization-wide."
    Draper echoed that.
    "You cannot not report on suicide. You have to report on someone like Anthony or Kate Spade when they kill themselves," he said. "But when anyone dies, the focus should not be on the cause of death so much as what they meant to the living and what they meant to people around them. The story of their life is so much more important than the story of their death."
    McBride cautioned against overly laudatory coverage of celebrities who take their own lives -- a particular challenge in the case of two widely admired figures like Spade and Bourdain.
    "It's really tricky," she said. "You read over the language you're using about the significance of his career and see if there are ways you can state it with fewer adjectives and adverbs. With Anthony Bourdain, you could say something like, 'He connected with an entire generation in exploring the globe,' as opposed to, 'He inspired an entire generation to embrace adventure.' There's a difference in tone. A lot of times in obituaries, we go for an over the top tone."
    Still, McBride said that "we're likely to continue to see a contagion" following this week's news. On Thursday, the Center for Disease Control reported that suicide rates in the United States rose by 25% between 1999 and 2016.
    Related: Remembering the life of Anthony Bourdain
    That nearly two decade period included a number of celebrities who took their own lives, including Williams, whose death in 2014 was followed by a spike in suicides by a similar means. Coverage of Williams' death was filled with graphic descriptions of the suicide, including an infamous New York Daily News front page headline that said, "HANGED."
    "Disrupting the cycle of a contagion is something we can help in journalism simply by making different choices," McBride said. "I'm not saying don't cover it, I'm just saying make a couple different choices when covering it, and add more context."
    But Draper said he's taken heart in theincreased awareness among members of the news media, particularly since Williams' death four years ago.
    "I can't tell you how many folks in the media have said, 'How can we stop contagion?' And that is something I have not heard before, at least not to this extent," he said.
    The contagion is being confronted elsewhere, too.
    Samaritans, a British charity that provides suicide assistance and counseling, has its own guidelines for covering the matter. When it comes to reporting the methods, the group urges reporters to "avoid giving too much detail," particularly "any mention of the method in headlines as this inadvertently promotes and perpetuates common methods of suicide."
    "Details of suicide methods have been shown to prompt vulnerable individuals to imitate suicidal behaviour," according to the group's guidelines, which note that such reporting runs the "risk of imitational behaviour due to 'over-identification.'"
    Earlier this year, the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO), a press regulator in the UK, announced that it will be teaming up with Samaritans to provide assistance to journalists who are covering suicide.
    IPSO said it will regularly publishblogs authored by Samaritans covering "the research around the reporting of suicide and key points for editors and journalists to consider," while also providing "practical recommendations for journalists." In addition, IPSO said it will offer its own set of guidance on the issue.
    "Ultimately, we can only reduce the numbers of suicides each year if we continue to talk about the issue," said Charlotte Urwin, head of standards at IPSO. "Through information, training and guidance, IPSO can help journalists to cover this important topic without putting vulnerable people at risk."
    How to get help: In the U.S., call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. The International Association for Suicide Prevention and Befrienders Worldwide also provide contact information for crisis centers around the world.
    https://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
    https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/
    https://www.befrienders.org/need-to-talk


    http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/09/medi...ide/index.html

    Of course CNN is biased since Bourdain was a valued member of the CNN team. Still, I thought this would be of interest as to their take on the coverage of this and other suicides. As noted in the article, there was a spike in the coverage of suicide after Robin Williams died as well. But despite the spike in coverage, nothing much came of it. I think often, the media finds things of importance to report on and to give opinions on, and then they simply move on toward the next shiny object to then report on and give opinions on. It is not their job to make any sort of difference, so I can understand their moving on. The audience is fickle. If they did not move on, the audience would move on to other media.

    So, if this is going political -- it will be politicians and the upcoming election cycle more than the media. Of at least that is my thinking at the moment.

    I thought that this quip form the heart of the article was perhaps a good point to consider:

    Details of Spade's death were quickly and widely reported. Reporting on those facts can become problematic in the online media environment, where news spreads like wildfire and is often accepted as truth before it is even verified. But adhering to that guideline may run counter to the journalistic impulse to provide readers with as much information as possible. McBride said she saw some examples in the coverage of Spade's death "that did not adhere to the best practices, specifically because they mentioned the means of death and provided specific details in headlines."
    For those interested: Poynter - Official Site - their 'in case you missed it' is their accumulation of other media links that may interest their readers. Worth a look even if you do not agree politically.

    The 2018 midterms are nearly upon us, and the 2020 election will be here sooner than we think. If journalism and civil society would be aided by more newsroom diversity, we should figure that out now. And although I didn’t include class in my query because I didn’t come up with a clear way of framing questions of class background, it would be valuable for us to understand whether working-class whites as well as Latinx and non-white reporters were on political teams, and in top newsrooms. Working class white journalists used to be plentiful, but now they are hard to find in elite newsrooms.
    https://www.cjr.org/analysis/kate-sp...-diversity.php

    That is all for now. Enough of a wall of text for anyone interested in how and why these things become political footballs.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    So he actually said those words? If not, they are your words and you are literally telling someone what their own views are.
    He expressed such views, quoting him directly wouldn't make a difference within the context of discussion.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
    -
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958

  14. #54

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Both guys reasoning is that if there are no more white people, racism would be solved and that and I quote ''it's the only solution''. T
    Yes, many people believe that for the World to be Peaceful, there is a certain Ethnic Demography that must be erased, via means of a solution that does not sound shocking like the Final Solution, but that does the same job in cleaning the Gene Pool.

    "For the World to be Peaceful, the White Race must disappear"

    This is highly ironic, but even in this form there is an evident belief in Eugenics-Program from the certain people hiding in the Left Wing, which explains all the accusations of Eugenics at the Right comes from Projecting what they themselves are trying to do.

    Now contrast "For the World to be Peaceful, the White Race must disappear" with "For Germany to be Peaceful, the Jewish people must disappear" and it would have been a surprise if not for all those Philosophers warning that Opposites Atract each other since centuries BC.
    Last edited by fkizz; June 15, 2018 at 08:14 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  15. #55

    Default Re: Suicide Rates in the USA and how this will become political (or Anthony Bourdain dead at 61)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    He expressed such views, quoting him directly wouldn't make a difference within the context of discussion.
    You believe he expressed such views; your perceptions are not the same thing as objectivity. A quote is objective. If he didn't say the words, don't use quotes.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

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