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Thread: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

  1. #161
    Katsumoto de Voltaire's Avatar laughs boisterously
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    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    What are you expecting, lobbyists whispering into the ears of US officials in the middle of a meeting? What's your take on the rest of the article?

  2. #162

    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto de Voltaire View Post
    What are you expecting, lobbyists whispering into the ears of US officials in the middle of a meeting? What's your take on the rest of the article?
    If that is addressed to me, I would expect evidence in what supposedly a news article, rather than a bald editorialization as a statement of fact, that is undermined by the article itself.
    I don't have a take, aoy, on the rest of the article. Though I am curious as to why this is some issue for the UN. If countries want to promote breast-feeding or discourage not breast-feeding what exactly is stopping countries from doing that such that it needs the UN to involve itself. Also, I wonder how will this effect those people with kids who, for whatever reason can't breast-feed.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    What the article also says: "Although lobbyists from the baby food industry attended the meetings in Geneva, health advocates said they saw no direct evidence that they played a role in Washington’s strong-arm tactics."
    So Washington's strong arm tactics was for kicks then? or were they just being bloodyminded perhaps , just going against the rest of the world, and threatening small countries for fun? Then allowing Russia to act as peace makers , making america look like bullies , isolating others from there leadership , whilst Russia looks the responsible adult in the room, was planned? ...at least corporate interest is a reason , which most can understand [although it makes them look bad], rather than doing such a thing ..because they can?

  4. #164
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    The is this .

    https://nytimes.com/2018/07/08/healt...dor-trump.html



    Emphasis mine.

    Jesus christ this ing administration. This is embarrassing.
    The problem is not breast feeding, it is government organizations that have a premise that all their actions presume to only promote breast feeding. Then the mission creep begins to punish those not with the program. That is the case with WHO. Even the US Surgeon General has issued reports of the benefits of breast feeding and I think all USA states have laws permitting breast feeding. I would question whether any of this government action is for the good though regardless of the Trump administration reasoning for their actions. Promoting good actions is laudable. Mission creep to punish those not with the program is not laudable. WHO has been known to the later. Examples would be WHO opposition to Catholic Church regarding Aids and condoms for example.

    Then there is this tidbit:
    According to The Associated Press, the WHO routinely spends about $200 million a year on travel expenses, more than it spends to tackle mental health problems, HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria combined. In 2016, Margaret Chan, Director-General of WHO from November 2006 to June 2017,[140] stayed in a $1000 per night hotel room while visiting West Africa.[141]
    Opposition to WHO (the organization, not the goals) should not ever be embarrassing. The UN in general is a bloated holiday for many dictators and their associates.

    Opposition to WHO is in line with the America First agenda of the Trump Administration. I do not want to fall into the John Birch trap of getting the USA out of the UN, but a smaller organization is clearly in the USA national interests.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinbob123 View Post
    So Washington's strong arm tactics was for kicks then? or were they just being bloodyminded perhaps , just going against the rest of the world, and threatening small countries for fun? Then allowing Russia to act as peace makers , making america look like bullies , isolating others from there leadership , whilst Russia looks the responsible adult in the room, was planned? ...at least corporate interest is a reason , which most can understand [although it makes them look bad], rather than doing such a thing ..because they can?
    Hmmm... [grabs the reynolds wrap] This is all a psyop by Putin who, of course, controls Trump, to make Putin look good. Got it.

    Or Big Baby Food runs the country.

    (Really must tie both together, maybe Putin secretly owns Gerbers)
    [insert picture of nutjob wearing tinfoil hat]

    Or maybe, and I know its a total stretch (considering what the NYT authoritatively stated (proof by assertion) in its editorialization) that maybe, just maybe, the concerns of the baby formula manufacturers and SD, or whatever, happen to coincide. Nah, could not be that simple....

    Let me indulge in my own little conspiracy theory. If it were slightly changed up, and America was pushhing for this, over the objections of Guatamala and Russia, then the narrative would be, 'baby formula gives women a choice, but Trump wants to chain women to babies, keeping them in the home. Trump thinks women are milch cows...'.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 09, 2018 at 09:05 PM.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    The problem is not breast feeding.
    In fact, the problem isn't breastfeeding.The problem is Trump's/America neocolonialism. Simply put, breastfeeding is bad for the American multibillion-dollar global infant formula/ dairy business.
    Abbot, etc.

    What really happens/happened,
    Trump administration sparks fury for 'using threats to block

    The US delegation to the World Health Assembly in Geneva is said to have tried to coerce nations into retreating from the resolution - reversing decades of scientific research that has acknowledged breast milk as the healthiest option for babies.
    It sought to remove a phrase from the draft text that called on governments to “protect, promote and support breastfeeding”.
    The US delegation allegedly used its network of diplomats to lean on member state and American officials were said to have threatened harmful trade practices against Ecuador, which planned to introduce the initiative, unless it withdrew it.
    They were also reported to have threatened to remove US military help in the South American country's fight against gang violence.
    The US delegation was also said to have threatened to cut its funding for the World Health Organization

    The resolution was finally passed with American support but only after the Russian government reintroduced the measure.


    What happened was tantamount to blackmail, with the US holding the world hostage and trying to overturn nearly 40 years of consensus on the best way to protect infant and young child health.

    The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends “exclusive breastfeeding for about six months, followed by continued breastfeeding as complementary foods are introduced, with continuation of breastfeeding for one year or longer.
    --

    The unbelievable excuse of an unrepentant liar,
    The U.S. strongly supports breast feeding but we don’t believe women should be denied access to formula. Many women need this option because of malnutrition and poverty
    The idiot misses the whole point - who’s not for "access", after all?

    Blackmail, threats... neo-imperialism is alive and well.

    US opposition to breastfeeding resolution: America threatened ... - Vox

    We feel that it is wrong when a big country tries to push around some very small countries, especially on an issue that is really important for the rest of the world,” a Russian delegate told the Times. The US did not make the same threats to Russia as it had to Ecuador, and the resolution was passed mostly in its original form
    ------
    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    The UN in general is a bloated holiday for many dictators and their associates.
    Trump, the hyper-nationalist, wants to subvert the pillars of international western order, under pressure from the rising neo-nationalism and a renaissance of global authoritarianism (Duterte, Farage, Le Pen,Wilders, Orban ,Duda, etc. are Trump's best friends... I forgot to mention Putin). On the agenda are/is the discrediting of international organisations - the WTO, the WHO, the international courts, etc.

    Preserving International Justice in the Age of Donald Trump - Center ...
    A Trump presidency means that U.S. commitment to international criminal justice—and to human rights in general—may soon be a thing of the past.

    Of particular concern, President Trump has flirted with appointing John Bolton to a senior diplomatic role—a man who has asserted that the ICC is “illegitimate,” that the ICTY “seems to be about score settling rather than a more disinterested search for justice,” and that the ICTR was so plagued with corruption and mismanagement that many were hoping that “it expires quietly before doing more damage.”
    Last edited by Ludicus; July 10, 2018 at 01:23 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

  7. #167

    Default Re: Trump's Foreign Policy: America First or America Alone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post


    Hmmm... [grabs the reynolds wrap] This is all a psyop by Putin who, of course, controls Trump, to make Putin look good. Got it.
    I didn't say that Putin controls Trump , just that Russia would benefit . You might think that Putin controls Trump , but I don't make a comment on that, but Russia certainly benefited by America's ill thought out and crass actions {grins}

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Or Big Baby Food runs the country.
    "Big Baby" as some might call him ,{Trump}runs the country , and the corporations help fund his agenda...you can see this if you examine the American system of government with lobbyists etc. You might think the corporations don't effect policy but if that is so, then why were they in attendance at the meeting? as per your own quotation of that previous document from #160:-

    quote "Although lobbyists from the baby food industry attended the meetings in Geneva, health advocates said they saw no direct evidence that they played a role in Washington’s strong-arm tactics."

    Just because they didn't see the baby food industry sitting next to the American representative making additions to his notes, and whispering in his ear , doesn't mean to say that had no representation or effect on the American policy....just as the press cant prove it, but those that can understand politics, might think that, perhaps when people are arguing against the benefits of breast-milk [a fact all apart from American admit] , that perhaps they have another agenda....and what would that be , I wonder? and how did they get the government to do so , on there behalf ,....... for that might take a lot of money , to influence people perhaps? {grins and nod's at educating others in the ways of the dark arts...}

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    (Really must tie both together, maybe Putin secretly owns Gerbers)
    [insert picture of nutjob wearing tinfoil hat]
    Don't know what you are talking about with Gerbers? - I presume it is some type of baby food firm...in which case ,wouldn't your argument be rather futile , for didn't the Russians make fools of America , and get most of there own way , whilst looking great, standing up against the foolish americans? I doubt Putin secretly owns a company that his own representatives are voting against, but he certainly getting a win politically

    As for wearing a tinfoil hat, you will have to tell about the benefits, as I do not have such attire , but I have heard that perhaps the red baseball caps that pronounce "making American great again" have the same qualities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Or maybe, and I know its a total stretch (considering what the NYT authoritatively stated (proof by assertion) in its editorialization) that maybe, just maybe, the concerns of the baby formula manufacturers and SD, or whatever, happen to coincide. Nah, could not be that simple....
    Simple things do tend to be trumpite moves [who knew such things could be so differicult ? ]

    Well the NYT only prints what it can prove and if the SD wanted to prove to trump that they were standing up for American jobs in baby food manufacturers, why didn't they announce it from the rooftops , so that trump would note there effort and praise it?

    quote from NYT article "The State Department declined to respond to questions, saying it could not discuss private diplomatic conversations"

    To use your words "Maybe , just maybe" ,that the baby formula manufacturers and the SD where acting in accord, equally under the command of a trumpite who is corrupt and taking baby food manufacturers lobbyist monies? For if the SD was acting under there own merits and interests, they are generally well thoughtout , due to their experienced officials who would predict what would happen? [for most SD plans tend to be strategic , for who wants to put a plan in action, which will cause issues against the rest of the world, leaving them isolated and threatening small countries? Threatening small countries and bullying them expecting a easy win, does seem to be trumpite move , which might mean somebody of trumps patronage was leading this move perhaps? This would be the point I would be thinking , perhaps they might also be taking money from lobbyists , as the trump government , has been seen to the most corrupt ]

    Instead what we had is a mass of denial from the SD, which suggests , that the current policy , that was "bought" out by baby food lobbyists [who just happened to be present in Geneva [just happened to be in Geneva , just around the corner, as they were just there in passing, getting some chocolate ]], which was controlled by trumpist officials which the SD didn't want to back , and so they retreat back using the classic SD defence of denial, as the policy was not successful, and the political backlash that followed did not give the SD "a win" ...

    Let me indulge in my own little conspiracy theory. If it were slightly changed up, and America was pushhing for this, over the objections of Guatamala and Russia, then the narrative would be, 'baby formula gives women a choice, but Trump wants to chain women to babies, keeping them in the home. Trump thinks women are milch cows...'.
    Trumps record of what he thinks of women is well known , and I don't want to lower the tone , by quoting them here.

    As for your conspiracy theory let look into this attack on the democrats on the same issue

    https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/flas...stfeeding-law/

    Yes , it did appear as if the Clintons under the influence of Gerbers money trying to influence the Guatamala government into using there baby milk formula , which was rejected , and the resultant effect , was that Gerber wouldn't change its formula , to abide by the new Guatamala law , to good effect, as more children were saved in the resultant change of milk

    quote :-
    "In 1983, the government of Guatemala passed a law and regulations with the goal to inspire new mothers to breastfeed their infants, and to fully understand the harm that could be done to their baby if they used breast-milk substitutes. The Guatemalan law prohibited the use of labels that associated infant formula with a healthy, chubby baby similar to those found on all Gerber packages. Manufacturers were prohibited from sending out free samples of their products because this encouraged mothers to stop breastfeeding, and to become customers. The law required packaging labels to carry a statement that breastfeeding is nutritionally superior. The law also restricted baby food manufacturers from targeting young mothers in the hospital."

    "Reducing infant mortality rates might be good for parents and children. But Gerber and the Clinton administration had profits and interests to think about. So, Gerber launched a four-year-long campaign “to force Guatemala to eliminate” the breastfeeding law, according to the UK Parliament’s Select Committee on Trade and Industry."

    "Then, in 1995, Guatemala considered a complete ban on Gerber baby food products. This prompted Gerber to enlist the aid of the Clinton administration. Again, the UK Parliament quoted:
    It was at this point that Gerber threatened the Guatemalan government with a challenge under the GATT/WTO. Although Gerber cannot personally launch a GATT challenge to the Guatemalan law, it raised the specter of a GATT challenge to intimidate the Guatemalan government and obtained US government support for its threat.
    After that, Guatemala was forced to cave."

    So yes it looks like the Clinton government like the Trump government caved into lobbyists from the Gerber, and forced Guatemala'ns to take there own substandard version of breast milk substitute , which was actually causing more deaths than natural breast milk . Makes you proud to be a American , promoting self interest and profit , over the lives of other human beings , doesn't it?

    But yes you look up and cry ..see the Clinton's are evil too! {and Hillaries emails too!} and to that I response , yes the government of Bill Clinton , does show a rather shoddy performance, in letting the corporations dictate policy , which I seem to think I mentioned somewhere before....where was it now..

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinbob123 View Post
    Which ultimately means that America , is now effectively a "government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations, and its people shall not perish from the earth., unless of course , it means profit for the corporations"


    Even more ironical [if it could be so, in the new America] was that the Russians saved the measure ...America, making Russia great again , in the eyes of the world, with more morals above corporate greed and self interest...makes America the laughing stock again [Trump : people are laughing are us....Me:Yup]
    But lets face it , Trumps has to have the "best" even in corruption and his so called "winning", for he doesn't just want to help the American baby food manufacturers impose there products on other countries [must be something to do with all this fair and reciprocal trade act- {FART} act he keep talking about ] and killing there children just for the sake of basic corruption. Where as before Gerber's contested the challenge of there ban in Guatemala using the WTO , and later had the backing of the American government , trump has to go that much further.


    quote :
    "The Americans were blunt: If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid. The Ecuadorean government quickly acquiesced."

    "During the deliberations, some American delegates even suggested the United States might cut its contribution to the W.H.O., several negotiators said. Washington is the single largest contributor to the health organization, providing $845 million, or roughly 15 percent of its budget, last year."

    All of this, has the hallmark of Trump or one of his disciples , for this is there signature of bullying the weak , with overwhelming force. I for one , would indeed like free and fair trade, but imposing your will on small countries , and giving them harmful products in the process [I wonder what the American people deserve for there own health, and perhaps they want to push there crap on the rest of us? ah that's right you are leaving your human rights behind ], and then threatening them , with pressure if they don't submit , isn't making American great , .....but just makes them look really really s***y

    "In the end, the Americans’ efforts were mostly unsuccessful. It was the Russians who ultimately stepped in to introduce the measure — and the Americans did not threaten them"

    But one thing , it did prove ,unless you are big ,enough , or strong enough, [or perhaps have nuclear weapons {eyes twinkle} ] then this ever more corrupt and pushy country , will push others nations into the influence of other nations , that actually prefer keeping there peoples safe, than just selling ill advised goods to make profits , for the sake of corporate greed.
    Last edited by paladinbob123; July 10, 2018 at 03:14 PM.

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