Grooming gangs in the UK

[Aexodus]

The cops are all over it. You know who they were too scared to talk about? Jimmy Saville. Rolf Harris. Multiple MPs from all parties who were brothel clients, including brothels with child prostitutes. Some of whom seem to have been murdered to keep them quiet, then the police "lost the files".

This sort of snow job "ooh look there's a huge cover up of Muslims raping our children" involves cogjnitive dissonce on the part of those silly enough to swallow it. The muslims in question are actually being prosecuted. This blatant stupidity distracts from your actual rulers and elites raping your children and getting away with it for decades. These sex crazed toffs and luvvies seem to have been from diverse religious and cultural backgrounds, but the richer and more powerful they were the less likely they are to be prosecuted, unlike these scum who son;t get protected because they are not the elite.

I honestly think people who waste their time being distracted by this sort of bigoted crap are at best willing sheep, at worst part of the problem.

We have a similar problem in my country. There are long standing rumours of networks of well-connected paedophiles in civil society whose horrendous activities have been concealed with the active assistance of police. My own feeling is the rumours are true, because of private conversations I've had with senior legal figures, as well as responses from police involved in certain cases. Make of that what you will, I know anonymous claims on the internet aren't worth the pixels they're transmitted with but I'd suggest to you that if you have small children you should not live in Adelaide, or the Mornington Peninsula.

Occasionally there's a scandal about poverty struck aborigines committing terrible acts in remote settlements (which does happen) but the furore is disproportionate, given the existence of entrenched paedophile gangs in my country. The poor black people are not important enough to be protected from the consequences of their horrible crimes. Its bad that it happens but its good they are punished. The scandal is when someone is not punished.

The link in question literally says,

"Three men have been jailed..." 2009

"Seven men convicted..." 2013

"Two Asian men sentenced..." 2011

And the prevailing statistics that y'all are so happy to point about how so many Asian men are convicted for sex crimes shows that the system routinely punishes these people. So yeah, you're being hysterical and whining over nothing. Is it sad that not everyone gets caught? Yeah. Is it sad that in order to balance racism against common sense, authorities avoid pursuing some of these leads? Yeah. Is it sad when the system routinely fails on a particular issue? Yeah. Does it deserve attention? Yeah. It's not however, indicative of "Western civilization crumbling" as you often characterize it. Nor is this grounds to replace your government for a hyper sensitive right-wing one

There's a difference between being furious that your government failed to protect thousands of young girls, and "Oh my god we are heading towards sharia law"

You just don’t get it. People knew about this, and nothing was done. There were cases such as in Rotherham, where the police arrested the girls instead, and didnt bother about the men who had plied them with vodka. For decades girls have been systematically failed by the police and government, with the causes ranging from being afraid of being called racist, to outright incompetence.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...gs-case-review
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8219971.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-9692577.html

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...d-sex-scandal/

Last month, I wrote here about the BBC and ‘grooming gangs’. In particular, I speculated that it was unlikely that having once (after more than a decade) dramatized the mass gang-rape of British girls (and a man from Wales having partly been fired-up by it then ploughing a van into a crowd outside a mosque) that the BBC might not venture into such territory again. As I said, ‘nobody should be surprised if the BBC reverts to ignoring crimes like Rochdale in the future.’
...
We once again learn how, over the course of four decades, every arm of the state – including council staff, social workers and the police – allowed the mass gang-rape of children to go on in their town. And we learn – once again – how fear of accusations of ‘racism’ meant that the identities of the culprits were hidden and cases were not investigated. When the story broke yesterday it was covered across a range of other papers, including in all of the Mirror’s competitors. But the story clearly sent the BBC into a panic. As Ed West pointed out on Twitter, this morning the story was not even on the front page of the BBC’s website:
...
That ‘My Telford’ could have been a really interesting and important video. Or it would have been if every single arm of the state plus the official state broadcaster hadn’t already decided that the children of Telford being gang-raped on an industrial scale (Telford is a town of just 170,000 people) is one big yawn-fest. Or that they basically agree with the very basic Labour MP Naz Shah who last year revealed her own opinions about all this when she re-Tweeted a (satirical) Tweet suggesting that the victims of the Rotherham sex abuse scandal should ‘shut their mouths. For the good of #diversity.’

For it is now not just abundantly but repeatedly clear that most people in positions of authority in this country never did want stories like Telford, Rochdale or Rotherham to come out. Not just because they want to continue being allowed to negotiate between the facts and the public, rather than just reporting the facts to the public. But because such stories spoil – perhaps more than any other – the pleasant, transient, but for the time-being dominant narrative which a whole generation of people in authority have come to believe in, or at least preach. Don’t forget that, as the case of the MP Sarah Champion showed last year, you can still lose your job in this country if you say this is going on.

It is easier to keep trying to cover it all over. And that is why there is now such a concerted effort online and in the non-online world to shut down, bar, silence, ban, deport and downgrade not the people who cover for these crimes but rather anyone who speaks out about them, highlights them, campaigns against them or does anything else other than join in the general silence. ‘For the good of diversity’.

Here’s Robinson calling it out in 2011 at 5:50, but no-one took him seriously.



Jeremy Paxman, blunder of the year: you know perfectly well this happens in-all communities.

or when Jack Straw was criticized by politcally correct idiots for pointing out that it was a Pakistani problem. Apparently being politically correct is more important than thousands of abused girls.

According to the judge, it was ‘coincidental’. A banardos said girls of all races were vulnerable, which is simply not true. What a ing joke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12142177

A Barnado's spokesman said vulnerable children of all races were at risk.

On Friday, Mohammed Liaqat, 28, and Abid Saddique, 27, were jailed at Nottingham Crown Court for raping and sexually abusing several girls aged between 12 and 18, often after giving them alcohol or drugs.

The judge in the case said the race of the victims and their abusers was "coincidental".

The tragedy is, that because it almost exclusively affects working class communities, most people simply aren’t aware of it, or refuse to accept it. It’s exactly the same thing in Sweden, where bourgeoise middle class types don’t want to know about migrant gangs chucking grenades in the street and attacking police stations. They just want the problem to go away because it’s too uncomfortable for them, and it would be politically incorrext for them to even speak out about it. Sarah Champion effectively lost her job for it.

But don’t worry guys, multiculturalism is great, and after all, aren’t all cultures equal, and therefore, compatible?

[removeduser_487563287433]

You just don’t get it.

We all get it. We all get why people like you are obsessed with this case and yet ignore all others, too.

[athanaric]

@Cyclops
Do aboriginal Australian abusers deliberately and systematically target kids from other ethnic groups? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Also, can you see why it's incredibly daft to compare aboriginal Australians in Oz with Asian immigrants in Britain? The best equivalent to the former are aboriginal Brits, i.e. white working clas people. Coincidentally, most of the victims from the recent rape scandals are from among their ranks.

[Aexodus]

We all get it. We all get why people like you are obsessed with this case and yet ignore all others, too.

I care about it because I don’t want these people coming to live and create their own closed communities in my area, despite the protestations of some that there will be absolutely no drawbacks to such a situation. It could be my family. So you have to take the situation, a situation that is new to Britain, that is affexting a certain sextion of our society, in all of its seriousness. To call that simply being racist is cowardly. Same as how our politicians are cowards not to properly call this out.

@Cyclops
Do aboriginal Australian abusers deliberately and systematically target kids from other ethnic groups? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Also, can you see why it's incredibly daft to compare aboriginal Australians in Oz with Asian immigrants in Britain? The best equivalent to the former are aboriginal Brits, i.e. white working clas people. Coincidentally, most of the victims from the recent rape scandals are from among their ranks.

Perhaps if they were systematically targeting black or oriental children, people would start giving a

[removeduser_487563287433]

I care about it because I don’t want these people coming to live and create their own closed communities in my area, despite the protestations of some that there will be absolutely no drawbacks to such a situation.

Exactly my point. You don't care about child abuse, but you do see child abuse as a fair target to use as a political football to justify your racist views.

[Aexodus]

Have I not laid out why it would increase the rate of grooming gangs clear enough for you?

Surely you can recognise the fact that 97% of the victims being white represents a personal threat.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Have I not laid out why it would increase the rate of grooming gangs clear enough for you?

Surely you can recognise the fact that 97% of the victims being white represents a personal threat.

More stats no sources.

[Aexodus]

More stats no sources.

Here.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...grooming-gangs

Ceop identified 144 victims of the Type 1 groups. Again, the data was incomplete. Gender was mentioned in 118 cases. All were female. Some 97 per cent of victims were white.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And the increase in grooming gangs? Come on let's not waste everybody's time.

[Aexodus]

80% are ‘Asian’

[removeduser_487563287433]

That's not the same as an increase. Come on come on, source or be accurate, either or.

[Love Mountain]

@Cyclops
Do aboriginal Australian abusers deliberately and systematically target kids from other ethnic groups? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Also, can you see why it's incredibly daft to compare aboriginal Australians in Oz with Asian immigrants in Britain? The best equivalent to the former are aboriginal Brits, i.e. white working clas people. Coincidentally, most of the victims from the recent rape scandals are from among their ranks.

Yes, and...?

You just don’t get it. People knew about this, and nothing was done. There were cases such as in Rotherham, where the police arrested the girls instead, and didnt bother about the men who had plied them with vodka. For decades girls have been systematically failed by the police and government, with the causes ranging from being afraid of being called racist, to outright incompetence.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...gs-case-review
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8219971.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-9692577.html

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...d-sex-scandal/

The Guardian

The report from the retired barrister David Spicer into the response by authorities in Newcastle to child sexual exploitation concluded that victims received effective protection after the launch of a Northumbria police investigation in January 2014. Before that, however, the force’s actions lacked consistency and had little impact, it said.

The Independent

The National Crime Agency (NCA), which is investigating grooming activity between 1997 and 2013, said some had come forward themselves and others had been identified by other survivors or through analysis of a local youth project and social care files.

Paul Williamson, the head of investigations for Operation Stovewood, said momentum was increasing.


“Our endeavours are bringing benefits to victims, not just with justice long overdue but in terms of the support they are given to proceed through the criminal justice process and assist them in building a better life,” he told

Operation Stovewood,

"Operation Stovewood is the National Crime Agency investigation into non-familial child sexual exploitation and abuse in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, between 1997 and 2013.

It is the largest ever investigation into non-recent child sexual exploitation (CSE) undertaken by law enforcement and the complexity of the investigation is unparalleled.

Victims and survivors have been exploited or abused by many individuals, in locations across the UK over a number of years. The majority of suspects have offended against more than one victim and many have been involved in organised trafficking.

Paul Williamson, senior investigating officer, said: “Our number one priority is to focus on the victims and survivors, and that will never change.

“The challenges are huge, and this is why we need more people to join us so we can do more and do it more quickly.”"

And,

was engaged in a relationship with a sex offender that first started on Facebook when she was just 13. Social services have since observed a pattern of “high-risk behaviour” with her being admitted to A&E after excessive drinking, having a series of relationships with older men and frequenting areas where young people are known to be at risk.

Here’s Robinson calling it out in 2011 at 5:50, but no-one took him seriously.

On the Telford Sex Scandal

Police and social workers in Telford – in common with their counterparts in many other towns across England – accept that in the past they failed to take seriously enough the sexual exploitation of young people. Beginning in 2009, West Mercia police launched an initiative known as Operation Chalice, which resulted in seven men being jailed for a total of 49 years in 2013. A number of other men were subsequently prosecuted in separate trials.

Since then, both HM Inspectorate of Constabulary and Ofsted have conducted inspections in Telford and concluded that West Mercia police and Telford and Wrekin council had overcome their past failings.

Jeremy Paxman, blunder of the year: you know perfectly well this happens in-all communities.

or when Jack Straw was criticized by politcally correct idiots for pointing out that it was a Pakistani problem. Apparently being politically correct is more important than thousands of abused girls.

According to the judge, it was ‘coincidental’. A banardos said girls of all races were vulnerable, which is simply not true. What a ing joke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12142177


The tragedy is, that because it almost exclusively affects working class communities, most people simply aren’t aware of it, or refuse to accept it. It’s exactly the same thing in Sweden, where bourgeoise middle class types don’t want to know about migrant gangs chucking grenades in the street and attacking police stations. They just want the problem to go away because it’s too uncomfortable for them, and it would be politically incorrext for them to even speak out about it. Sarah Champion effectively lost her job for it.

But don’t worry guys, multiculturalism is great, and after all, aren’t all cultures equal, and therefore, compatible?[/QUOTE]

You're the one who doens't get it. I would adivse you to listen to Jeremy Paxman. Are you seriously insinuating that the issue of Islamic rape gangs, dealers, and terrorists are more important than the issues of rape, drugs, and terrorism from all sources? Who is the one playing identity politics now? This is not to say there aren't issues with Islam, that there aren't issues with Muslim communities, or that there aren't cultural atrocities within Muslim immigrants that are incompatible with Western culture.

However, to you, and to Mr. Robinson. Do you know Muslim people who have committed no rape, go to school, and are perfectly content with being Muslim within confines of Western ideals? Clearly you don't, I do. Do you know white girls, asian girls, black girls, who have not been targetted by Muslim men but have been targetted by different rapists? I don't, clearly you don't, but that is an issue that exists around the world. Do you know of child abuse, which happens oh so often in the homes of white men and women? Clearly you don't but it does happen. Are these issues to be swept under the rug until the issue of Islam is solved? Are we to ignore other failures by the authorities and by our own communities until Islam is purged?

No. You see Mr. Robinson, the issue here isn't one of Islam being incompatible with Western ideals. The issue here is that there are many people, including many Muslims, dis-proportionally so in fact, who happen to be scumbags. However, the majority of people, including most Muslims, are perfectly content to living in peace and not being scumbags. Perhaps once you learn of this basic truth Mr. Robinson, you can move on with your life and move on from Islam.

[Whitey McKnightey]

You're the one who doens't get it. I would adivse you to listen to Jeremy Paxman. Are you seriously insinuating that the issue of Islamic rape gangs, dealers, and terrorists are more important than the issues of rape, drugs, and terrorism from all sources? Who is the one playing identity politics now? This is not to say there aren't issues with Islam, that there aren't issues with Muslim communities, or that there aren't cultural atrocities within Muslim immigrants that are incompatible with Western culture.

Well, it would be impossible to disagree that rape and violence "from all sources" is more important than rape and violence from "Islamic sources". However, to focus all our energies on finding a blanket solution that fits all cases would be rather inefficient, since depending on the source we have different sets of means available to us, and different cultural underpinnings behind these issues call for different strategies. For example, if a migrant commits rape, we usually have the option of deporting them to whatever country they came from. This unfortunately isn't the case with our homegrown rapists, since no one else has the obligation to take them, and I very much doubt anyone else would want them. The murder victims of a drunken husband and a Mafia hitman are both equally dead, but these hypothetical murders have very different implications for society, and piously condemning "murder from all sources" is not gonna do a tinkers damn about the issues that underpin them.

We also have different sets of means for preventing all these crimes, depending on the source. These grooming gangs for example have consisted mostly of British Pakistani men from insular communities. Now I don't have statistics on this (I doubt anyone has done a conclusive, academic study on how shifting demographics affect the number of pedophilic sex slavery gangs per capita), but based on the differences in the prevalance of pedophilia and general attitudes towards women's rights, I suspect that one measure to prevent this issue would be to prevent such enclaves from forming.

However, to you, and to Mr. Robinson. Do you know Muslim people who have committed no rape, go to school, and are perfectly content with being Muslim within confines of Western ideals? Clearly you don't, I do.

Well, I do too. Yet that is completely irrelevant to whether or not Islam and Islamic ideologies deserve some special scrutiny. I've experienced all manner of violence and brutality from my fellow white men, while every Muslim I've ever known has treated me with nothing but politeness and hospitality. But that's not relevant when speaking about religion and culture as factors in violent behavior. Violence is violence, but whether it's motivated by drunken rage or a religious/cultural ideology matters.

[Aexodus]

We also have different sets of means for preventing all these crimes, depending on the source. These grooming gangs for example have consisted mostly of British Pakistani men from insular communities. Now I don't have statistics on this (I doubt anyone has done a conclusive, academic study on how shifting demographics affect the number of pedophilic sex slavery gangs per capita), but based on the differences in the prevalance of pedophilia and general attitudes towards women's rights, I suspect that one measure to prevent this issue would be to prevent such enclaves from forming..

Thanks, this is what I’ve been trying to say.

I care about it because I don’t want these people coming to live and create their own closed communities in my area, despite the protestations of some that there will be absolutely no drawbacks to such a situation.

[Heathen Hammer]

The reason why normal people are outraged is not because it was poor liitle Muslims (nothing to do with Islam, they just happen to believe that a psychotic rapist pedophile Muhammad was a "prophet"), but because state authorities were aware of this for some time and did nothing until a wave of public outrage.

[Katsumoto]

Well, I do too. Yet that is completely irrelevant to whether or not Islam and Islamic ideologies deserve some special scrutiny. I've experienced all manner of violence and brutality from my fellow white men, while every Muslim I've ever known has treated me with nothing but politeness and hospitality. But that's not relevant when speaking about religion and culture as factors in violent behavior. Violence is violence, but whether it's motivated by drunken rage or a religious/cultural ideology matters.

That's my issue with this discussion though, the presumption that just because they happen to be Muslim, that their crimes are somehow related to their religious/cultural ideology - despite there being no real evidence to suggest that. Correlation doesn't always equal causation. Yes, there are some backward attitudes among members of the British Pakistani community, but there's no logical reason to make this a cultural question when the vast majority of Muslims in Britain don't go around forming grooming gangs. For example, knife crime in London is mostly conducted by black youths - does that mean their crimes are somehow reflective of their African/Caribbean background? Of course we should be addressing the issue of grooming gangs, and the police and local councils should certainly not be accused of being racist for doing so, but this just doesn't strike me as something that's due to the 'failures of multiculturalism' as Aexodus is arguing. It's a failure of policing.

[Aexodus]

There absolutely are conscious, cultural reasons. You’re being willfully ignorant, because you don’t want it to be true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8261831.html

They made it clear that because I was a non-Muslim, and not a virgin, and because I didn’t dress “modestly”, that they believed I deserved to be “punished”. They said I had to “obey” or be beaten.

There is a clear link, and it’s not merely to do with poverty etc

In November 2017, the Swedish government held a meeting where they stated that: “Sexual violence is being used as a tactic of terrorism”, and as such, it was recognised as a threat to Sweden’s national security.
The link between terrorism and rape undertaken by Islamist gangs was not being ignored. They called for counter-extremism education. This sounds like a balanced and intelligent governmental response to me.

Religious indoctrination in grooming gangs.

Religious indoctrination is a big part of the process of getting young men involved in grooming gang crime. Religious ideas about purity, virginity, modesty and obedience are taken to the extreme until horrific abuse becomes the norm. It was taught to me as a concept of “othering”.

“Muslim girls are good and pure because they dress modestly, covering down to their ankles and wrists, and covering their crotch area. They stay virgins until marriage. They are our girls.

"White girls and non-Muslim girls are bad because you dress like slags. You show the curves of your bodies (showing the gap between your thighs means you’re asking for it) and therefore you’re immoral. White girls sleep with hundreds of men. You are the other girls. You are worthless and you deserve to be gang-raped.”

This hateful religious hypocrisy strikes people to their very core. But it’s far from unique. My main perpetrator quoted scriptures from the Quran to me as he beat me. However, almost identical scriptures (about the stoning to death of virgins who don’t scream when they are raped) can also be found in the Bible.

Notably they mention the Bible. If it’s the case that the Bible also incites these acts, where is the wave of religiously indoctrinated Christian groomers?

Cultural practices in Pakistan:
https://www.quilliaminternational.co...key-muna-adil/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

An observable feature of these grooming gangs that can be traced back to cultural norms concerns the age of the victims. While the disparity between the ages of the abusers and the victims is extreme in the UK context, Pakistani law is still struggling with the court of public opinion when it comes to banning child marriage.Only last year, a move to ban child marriages in Pakistan was withdrawn after it was met with robust resistance from religious outfits, in particular, the CII, who dubbed the bill as “anti-Islamic” and “blasphemous”, forcing the female politician who introduced the bill to back down. The proposed legislation recommended raising the minimum age of marriage for women to 18-years-old (currently 16) and advised harsher sentencing to those engaging in marriage with a minor.

The CII unanimously rejected the proposal on “purely religious grounds”. Chairman Mohammad Khan Sheerani said: “Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah.” In May 2014, the council emphasised its ruling that girls as young as nine-years-old were eligible for marriage if “the signs of puberty are visible.”

This acceptance of child marriage stems from the selective reading of hadith literature in which is it is assumed that the Prophet Muhammad’s widow Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to the Prophet, and nine-years-old when the marriage was consummated. This belief is founded on a saying attributed to Aisha herself. Other Muslims cast doubt on the veracity of the hadith as it is in conflict with several other historical accounts suggesting that this report is inaccurate. But for those who wish to pursue their twisted perversions, this unconfirmed account is enough to justify their behaviour. Sadly, this understanding of the hadith has been preached so consistently that it is now prevalent among Sunni Muslims, and widely accepted as accurate.

Yet these fundamentalist approaches aren’t just being taught in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but right here on British soil. In January 2013, Nottingham Crown Court saw the disturbing case of Adil Rashid who was spared jail after he raped a 13-year-old girl because he claimed that his Islamic education had left him “ignorant of British law”. Rashid admitted he had sex with the girl, saying he had been “tempted by her” after they met online. The 18-year-old attended a taxpayer-funded madrassah in Birmingham, where boys and girls were taught in segregated classes. Rashid said he was taught that “women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground”. This is an argument that is often touted in favour of the veil, where preachers will ask whether you would prefer a wrapped lollipop or an unwrapped one, the suggestion being that an uncovered woman has already been soiled and is unworthy of respec

When it comes to the general treatment of women, it is undeniable that women’s rights have, both formally and informally, been repeatedly violated in Pakistan.According to leading women’s rights organization in Pakistan, Aurat Foundation, out of a total of 8,000 cases of violence against women in 2010, 928 were rape cases. The actual figure is projected to be much higher, as a large majority of cases go unreported due to socio-cultural norms regarding honour and family prestige. Out of the cases that do make it to court, only 3% land a conviction.

“Grooming gangs failed to integrate into British society”

[Whitey McKnightey]

That's my issue with this discussion though, the presumption that just because they happen to be Muslim, that their crimes are somehow related to their religious/cultural ideology - despite there being no real evidence to suggest that. Correlation doesn't always equal causation. Yes, there are some backward attitudes among members of the British Pakistani community, but there's no logical reason to make this a cultural question when the vast majority of Muslims in Britain don't go around forming grooming gangs. For example, knife crime in London is mostly conducted by black youths - does that mean their crimes are somehow reflective of their African/Caribbean background? Of course we should be addressing the issue of grooming gangs, and the police and local councils should certainly not be accused of being racist for doing so, but this just doesn't strike me as something that's due to the 'failures of multiculturalism' as Aexodus is arguing. It's a failure of policing.

I personally think it's a failure of both (though multiculturalism might not be my term of choice). You're perfectly right in saying that most Muslims or Pakistanis don't engage in or condone such activities. But certain backwards attitudes are far more prevelant in these communities than in Western societies at large. When you let ethnic and cultural enclaves form, these attitudes aren't challenged as often, and are allowed to fester together with resentment towards a society that doesn't accept them.

As Aexodus shows above, this specific case was, at least according to the victims, linked to culture. We also know that this problem is pronounced in Pakistan. The assumption is not based on them simply being Muslims, but on the facts we have before us. I don't understand then, how seeing a link with a large, insulated Pakistani community and these grooming gangs is not logical. I would argue that the exact opposite is the case. This does not translate to deporting Pakistanis or inciting cultural strife. But it does in my opinion at the very least merit some special focus on the case at hand, and perhaps some contemplation on future policies around immigration and integration.

[Katsumoto]

There absolutely are conscious, cultural reasons. You’re being willfully ignorant, because you don’t want it to be true.

Bit of a daft thing to say. I have no reason to be 'willfully ignorant'.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8261831.html

That's a fair article, I concede there are cultural aspects to the abuse, and I accept what she's saying - these gangs do use religion to justify their actions, just like terrorists. Though I wonder if you read this bit?

But for Tommy Robinson and his followers to focus on an entire religion, based on the cruel interpretations of some scriptures by some people, is unhelpful, to say the least. Many of his religious theories and conjecture are not anything that I can relate to in my real life experiences.

Meaning, their actions are hardly representative of Muslims as a whole. Yet you continue to use this issue to suggest Islam is incompatible with the UK:

"But don’t worry guys, multiculturalism is great, and after all, aren’t all cultures equal, and therefore, compatible?"

Cultural practices in Pakistan:
https://www.quilliaminternational.co...key-muna-adil/

Fair, though I can't help but think of neighbouring India and the scandal surrounding the spate of gang rapes, where Islam didn't play a part.

I personally think it's a failure of both (though mukticulturalism might not be my term of choice). You're perfectly right in saying that most Muslims or Pakistanis don't engage in or condone such activities. But certain backwards attitudes are far more prevelant in these communities than in Western societies at large. When you let ethnic and cultural enclaves form, these attitudes aren't challenged as often, and are allowed to fester together with resentment towards a society that doesn't accept them.

As Aexodus shows above, this specific case was, at least according to the victims, linked to culture. We also know that this problem is pronounced in Pakistan. I don't understand then, how seeing a link with a large, insulated Pakistani community and these grooming gangs is not logical. I would argue that the exact opposite is the case. This does not translate to deporting Pakistanis or inciting cultural strife. But it does in my opinion at the very least merit some special focus on the case at hand, and perhaps some contemplation on future policies around immigration and integration.

I agree with all you've said. The problem arises when people try and use this issue to make some wider criticism of Islam in the UK as a whole, which I think is flawed, as the majority of Muslims are relatively integrated.

[Aexodus]

Bit of a daft thing to say. I have no reason to be 'willfully ignorant'.

Yeah I shouldn’t have said that, sorry. But when you said

that their crimes are somehow related to their religious/cultural ideology - despite there being no real evidence to suggest that.

it seemed clear to me at least, that plenty of evidence had already been presented, personally.