[Small Preview] 1.2.3 Campaign & Building Changes

[Frosthammer]

Since we mentioned spice resource and simulating space trade - what about Silk trade. It`s quite hard to get it and it is needed to upgrade greec yellow research building above 2 tier. Maybe silk trade deserve some changes, or i don`t get where to get it?

[Holland_NL]

I am guessing in head to head multiplayer changing your capital wont change the victory conditions?

[Jake Armitage]

Provincial capital, foreign quarter and population variations can be surely great additions.

[lequintal69]

Btw, is there a single cooldown on mercenaries respawn in a region? In other words, do op mercenaries respawn as fast as low quality ones ?

[Vardan the Great]

Wow these are great changes.
What about making the game even more non-linear by adding more depth to the phenomenon of having a capital city. For instance, Romans were often marching towards enemies' capitals right away. Thus, they could engage opponents' troops in an open battle asap. Why it would happen? Because in capitals kings often collected their treasures. Also the capital was a sin nof the might of a state and especially the ruling dynasty (no need to mention that many capitals in ancient world were named after kings that established the dynasties). So having the capital captured or sacked the faction looses let's say 70% of collected money, all members of the ruling party may gain minus gravitas, and the faction gains a faction-wide penalty due to presence of foreign culture. We can recall the conquest of Ctesiphon by Trajan which delayed the crisis in Rome due to the looted treasurers and eventually caused a civil war bringing Sassanids to power.
Capitals may also have some bonuses: let's say bonus morale for battles near capital or in the province of the capital, bonus public order, cultural conversion etc.
All this may make a step towards non-linearity of campaigns.
Cheers.

[Vladdy Daddy]

Great new changes, guys! The GC will be even more fun and interesting than before. Regarding the new building types and region changes, could you do something about Hayasdan? It's the only province that doesn't have any resources and it's a 4-settlement province (the highest). Maybe a granary, some timber, a mine, horses, I don't know, but something, anything to make that province worthwhile.

[Falco]

Since we mentioned spice resource and simulating space trade - what about Silk trade. It`s quite hard to get it and it is needed to upgrade greec yellow research building above 2 tier. Maybe silk trade deserve some changes, or i don`t get where to get it?

The seleucids and their satrapies start with it.

[Geffalrus]

Thank you thank you thank you thank you! Spices missing from the Saba (and Nabata campaign as a result) definitely made their experience just a bit less authentic. THE SPICE MUST FLOW!

Also the mercenary change is potentially fantastic. I've always disliked the incentive to just buy and drop them - logically made more sense for something like a citizen levy unit (like Hoplites in Classical Greece) where you only wanted them in combat for a season or two before sending them home.

With the ability to change capitals manually, does this open the option for Makedon and Antigonos Gonatas to start somewhere other than Pella? As of Pyrrhus's Expedition to Italy, Antigonos was not in Pella. In EBII and RTR 7, they had fun campaign elements where the primary Antigonid goal was retaking Pella. Not saying this has to be a priority, but maybe something to consider down the line?

[Marco1234]

great work guys, do you have any idea about a probable release time? 1 month ? 5 months? 1 week ? thanks

[Jake Armitage]

[boblikesoup]

June or July

[Fluke]

These are all solid additions to the game. Well done DEI team!

[zogg513]

Antigonos Monophthalmus had never actually been the ruler of Macedonia, and it wasn't until the rule of his grandson, Antigonos Gonatas, that the dynasty was firmly established in Macedon. In strictly historical terms there is thus very little connection between the Antigonids and Syria, just for the record.

I see what you mean, but Antigonos I and Antigonus II are only separated by Demetrios who gained and lost Macedonia. I would see the dynast as firmly starting with Antigonos I with the family suffering devastating setbacks. Demetrios was also named king alongside his father due to Antigonos I being age eighty at the time of declaring the kingship. The kingship being over his territories in Syria - Asia Minor - Cappodocia. It was south of what would later become Antioch that he made his capital of Antiochea and ruled there for his short shared reign with his son Demetrios. I think one could draw a loose historical connection here since Demetrios shared the throne with his father.

With a little role-play, maybe Antigonus II wished to make his capital in Syria to emulate his father and grandfather and rule in the rich lands of Asia.

Though, it’s mostly an excuse to give oneself a capital in a 4 province region.

If anyone wants literature on Antigonos I, Billows’s Antigonos the One-Eyed and the Creation of the Hellenistic State is an interesting read on campaigns and how the Macedonians ruled over their new lands.

[Dresden]

SO happy to see these changes! Thank you DEI Team you made my day!

Foreign Quarter Buildings
Great idea, but these effects seem pretty weak to me. I would never build these buildings.
The idea of anything hurting culture repulses me because it is so hard to convert as-is. Is there a bug with it? Can we maybe lower penalties? I own all 3 regions in Thrake w/ City as a client. I have a temple and x3 dignitaries spec'd for cultural conversion, they have nothing to improve culture. I am at like 45% culture and only gaining a net + 1.2%.

My Wishes
-A little easier / more forgiveness to government type changes (-110 PO, 10,000 gold, and -20 loyalty). Kingdom seems waaay objectively worse giving a net -7 PO compared to another one. Hard to be a military faction when your expansion is so slow due to artificially enhanced PO problems (needing temples instead of military buildings, lingering armies....).
-Buffs to the useless agent skills. A lot of cool ones that never get used - would make me happy to be able to build and use agents in more ways.
-If AI traded with each other more that could be a good way to naturally balance out how the player can snowball mid-game when they have like 20 trade agreements for massive income + friends everywhere.
-Revisit to the military chain with the Training Field and naval researches. It seems to be so far underpowered that nobody I know ever even touches it. The buildings and bonuses alike suck. In general it feels like civic researches are better than military ones: can we increase the barely noticeable buffs or at least remove the upkeep increases.
-Lower upkeep costs for navies. They aren't that useful compared to armies. IRL a ship costs more to build than maintain relative to a soldier.

Culture works based on a ratio system in the game. So, if there are bonuses from other cultures there it will push the % toward the ratio of bonuses. I am not sure how the buildings will test just yet, but I think they may be better than you expect. They are one of the only buildings to have bonuses to industry and trade as well as a large income bonus. They also give you diplomatic bonuses and can be built in any region...so that can add up. Lastly their only negatives are a small food cost and the small culture bump. I was actually worried they would be overpowered since they cost half as much as other buildings and build twice as fast. The idea is you have to decide on how to want to manage a border state region, if you use these buildings you could improve relations and make local allies.

In terms of the other stuff:
Government bonuses we can revisit in the future, they are supposed to be situational. Agents are mostly nerfed by design, they are supposed to be decent at their specific roles but that is it. Its hard to force the AI to trade and change those values without impacting player diplomacy. The training bonuses were removed on purpose to prevent on recruitment stat buffs that were overpowered and ruined battle balance. Navies are expensive because they are supposed to be a limited use tool for defending sea invasions and they do wreck transports.

Great new changes, guys! The GC will be even more fun and interesting than before. Regarding the new building types and region changes, could you do something about Hayasdan? It's the only province that doesn't have any resources and it's a 4-settlement province (the highest). Maybe a granary, some timber, a mine, horses, I don't know, but something, anything to make that province worthwhile.

The problem is that the reason they are left out is because the other areas all around them have resources. So, if we were to move one then another province gets shorted and will have no resources. For example, if we move the gold from Caucasia that province will have none like Armenia does now. Or if we move the wine from the Seleucid main province then that province has no resource. So anywhere we move one, another province will come up empty. And I think we have a great balance of resource placement right now, so just adding one can upset that. Maybe one like timber as you said isn't a bad idea and could fit in the region.

[Vladdy Daddy]

The problem is that the reason they are left out is because the other areas all around them have resources. So, if we were to move one then another province gets shorted and will have no resources. For example, if we move the gold from Caucasia that province will have none like Armenia does now. Or if we move the wine from the Seleucid main province then that province has no resource. So anywhere we move one, another province will come up empty. And I think we have a great balance of resource placement right now, so just adding one can upset that. Maybe one like timber as you said isn't a bad idea and could fit in the region.

I didn't know there's a finite number of resources that could be assigned to regions. I thought it could be done without handicapping those provinces you mentioned, without stripping away their wine or gold like you said. I thought you could just transform a number of settlements in Hayasdan province from vanilla civic/farming/trading settlements to specific resource settlements without that much hassle and regard to the resources of the neighboring provinces. But I welcome any change, even a minor one, regarding that region.

[ThePoshBarbarian]

Just noticed, the great dam of Mari'b isn't in! Wut? you guys planning on adding it in the far future? Or is it just uturely useless?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Just noticed, the great dam of Mari'b isn't in! Wut? you guys planning on adding it in the far future? Or is it just uturely useless?

Haven't though about that. Good question.

[Maetharin]

The problem is that the reason they are left out is because the other areas all around them have resources. So, if we were to move one then another province gets shorted and will have no resources. For example, if we move the gold from Caucasia that province will have none like Armenia does now. Or if we move the wine from the Seleucid main province then that province has no resource. So anywhere we move one, another province will come up empty. And I think we have a great balance of resource placement right now, so just adding one can upset that. Maybe one like timber as you said isn't a bad idea and could fit in the region.

Why not Iron? It was one of the iron richest regions in the ancient world.

[Olmsted]

I’m still in my first DEI campaign, but a couple of things really frustrate me so far. First, the movement distances feel too short. This is especially true with units embarked on ships. It should not take nine months to sail across the Aegean or Adriatic.

The second is that I am having a hard time getting a handle on the ratio of regions:armies. I am not trying to build huge armies of highest tier units. My armies are “balanced Polybian legions.” Despite that, as the Romans I am having a really tough time maintaining 6 full armies while controlling most of Gaul, Italy, Noricum, Illyria, Pannonia, Thrace, Macedonia, Asia, and Pontus. This is frustrating, but maybe I am doing it wrong? I’m trading with everyone I am able to convince to do that, but I am so broke it hurts. I think I should be able to support approximately one army of appropriate units for each full region I control (assuming that I develop it appropriately for that stage in the game), but at this stage I could not possibly develop my regions and maintain a decent army. Is this normal?

[KAM 2150]

Naval movement is hardcoded by CA so if you increase land army speed on sea, you increase it much, much more on land.