Fake News Clarification: Volume One

[Pontifex Maximus]

I understand how being provided with evidence of their immeasurable dis-ingenuousness would shake your whole world view, but for those skeptical liberals hell bent on proving that Trrump is actual Russian satan, remember when the DNC stole the nomination from Bernie because "I'M WITH HER DURRRRR"

Yeah, you have no argument. Nobody has even deigned to reply to me initial argument. It all boils down to hysterical ORANGE MAN BAD arguments. Try harder.

[Gaidin]

Why would I think he is a Russian satan?

[Pontifex Maximus]

So you admit the Russian investigation is headed towards nothing?

[Gaidin]

No.

I just think it’s more complicated than you. And so does at least one federal judge.

(mind you lawyer: multiple people are guilty and the grand jury has been extended)

and mind you you can’t argue with this logic if you claim to be a lawyer.

So, Lawyer. What do you do for a living? Are you actually a lawyer?

[cfmonkey45]

So you admit the Russian investigation is headed towards nothing?

Well, I'll bite.

Just because Gaidin doesn't think that Trump is a "Russian Satan"--whatever that means--does not mean that Mueller's investigation is heading towards nothing. In fact, that's actually a false dilemma. Mueller's investigation--by the standards of Special Counsel investigations--has moved at a brisk pace. Fivethirtyeight has Mueller moving much faster than comparable special counsel investigations--about on par with the Watergate investigations.

[Fivethirtyeight Mueller Is Moving Quickly Compared To Past Special Counsel Investigations]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As it currently stands, Mueller has indicted over 37 people, including a considerable number of Russian nationals and an impressive list of Trump's inner circle. Currently, seven of those have plead guilty (such as Cohen) or been convicted of related crimes (Manafort). Additionally, several people inside Trump's circle, such as Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, Donald Trump Jr, with several more speculated to be on the list of future investigations/indictments.

So the argument that Mueller's investigation is going nowhere is basically bunk.



Back to the formal question over "Fake New." The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression and Opinion David Kaye and clinical professor of Law at UC Irvine recently stated that Trump is the worst peddler of Fake News in America today. Additionally, other senior officials at the UN, as well as other nations, and US officials (past and present) have condemned Trump's usage of the term "Fake News" because it creates obfuscation and can endanger journalists who are exercising their First Amendment rights.

There's also the clear issue that Donald Trump has had a dizzying record of misleading (to be generous) or outright false statements. As of November 2018, the Washington Post has calculated that Trump has made 6,420 false or misleading statements over 649 days. The New York Times made a similar comparison over Trump's first year vs Obama's eight years. It also dwarfs the 935 misleading statements that the Bush administration made in the lead up to the Iraq War. Additionally, Donald Trump lies about demonstrably false things, from the mundane (such as the crowd count at his inauguration), to significant ones that may place him in legal jeopardy. This seems to indicate that Donald Trump is a clear aberration from normal political "spinning," to one of outright political deception and pathological lying.

[Gaidin]

Again, I ask pontifex, are you a lawyer or are you faking it?

To the mods: this is not a flame. He has claimed to be a lawyer before. He can either step up or admit he’s not a lawyer. Because honestly too much progress is being made for him to dodge.

He can admit the news is real or that he is a Trumpite.

Is he a lawyer or is he not?

[cfmonkey45]

Again, I ask pontifex, are you a lawyer or are you faking it?

To the mods: this is not a flame. He has claimed to be a lawyer before. He can either step up or admit he’s not a lawyer. Because honestly too much progress is being made for him to dodge.

He can admit the news is real or that he is a Trumpite.

Is he a lawyer or is he not?

To be fair to Pontifex, IIRC, he's either still in Law School, or a recent graduate. His political beliefs won't disqualify him from being a lawyer. Additionally, the claim that news is either entirely real or entirely fake is another false dilemma. There's a spectrum of truth. I would argue that most mainstream news is mostly accurate (with fewer that 10% of articles containing deliberately false or misleading information), with more distortions and deceptions from the explicitly partisan media (blogosphere/twittersphere, as well as partisan rags such as Huffpo and Breitbart), I would argue that a significant (perhaps 30%) portion of what they write is either outright false, or deliberately misleading. Lastly, there's clearly objective fake news, which are fraudulent sites that either exist to exploit advertising revenue loopholes on social media, or are outright propagated as disinformation by foreign governments (including, but not limited to Russia, China, the Gulf States, etc).

[Gaidin]

It's not the fact that's the news is real that saves him. It's the fact that the news is ing indicting people via both Grand Jury and Jury. He either accepts this or he doesn't. He is either a lawyer or he isn't.

There are steps to follow the indictments, yes. But as a lawyer he has to accept the indictments.

Let's face it, I don't care what source puts it out there, it's ing difficult to argue with the court documents. You might find a different source. Like the court itself. But if things were done right, they'd just say the same damn thing. And Ponti is just ing screwed.

[Heathen Hammer]

No he has not. He recklessly upped our commitment to Israel w/o any return. He has doubled down on our commitment to the odious House of Saud. He has broken the first real attempt to by the US to undo uncritical hatred of Iran (nor raised the very real historical reasons Iran might find US dictates as the height of hypocrisy). US small wars in Africa get less press but are nowhere near winding down. Which war has he ended? The only deescalation he managed in Korea was backing down from his own escalation.

Not really. American presence in Middle East was key-de-escalating factor. Both Israeli and Saudis lost form US leaving Iraq and Syria - which is a good thing. Power vacuum will be replaced by Iran, which the region is better off then Israel and Saudis anyways. But I do find it quite amusing how "peace and love" liberals demand more war due to Trump Derangement Syndrome. If Trump says Hitler was bad, Democrats will probably start burning crosses again.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's not the fact that's the news is real that saves him. It's the fact that the news is ing indicting people via both Grand Jury and Jury. He either accepts this or he doesn't. He is either a lawyer or he isn't.

There are steps to follow the indictments, yes. But as a lawyer he has to accept the indictments.

Let's face it, I don't care what source puts it out there, it's ing difficult to argue with the court documents. You might find a different source. Like the court itself. But if things were done right, they'd just say the same damn thing. And Ponti is just ing screwed.

Your attempts at equating Trump's guilt or innocence contingent upon my qualifications aside, which is by the way a pathetic argument, I can confirm my status but will not do so publicly given TWC's public community's affinity with, among other things,allowed photoshopping my image onto pornography to discredit me. There is no benefit to me disclosing professional qualifications here due to policies leading back to 2010. In any event, my qualifications don't matter. The burden of proof of your cherished investigation do, and they have proven next to nothing. Make it personal all you want but as of this post nothing has been proven even as to a civil context. Your absolute failure to distinguish between pleas and verdicts, to begin with, is troubling. Any legally trained individual would immediately point this out. You're willing to equate a plea with a verdict and judgment, which it is not, is awful, to say nothing of the innocence or guilt of conspirators. Don't believe me? Ask any of your friends at the ACLU or SPLC. Your demands that a lawyer come down on your side at this point before the investigation is even concluded reveals your moral and logical bankruptcy. You've obviously received no legal training whatsoever, which is important to bring up since you made it an issue and begged moderation not to flag you for it.

My qualifications are a matter of public record. Find them if you want. You've also failed to acknowledge examples of fake news I have brought up, which is an admission on your behalf. Good luck in 2020, I think you're in for a disappointment.

I gave you sources. You countered with a pathetic attempt to make it personal. Why don't you address the sources? Is it because you can't refute them and you lose and the only way you can possibly save face is by making it personal? Classy.

Attempts to address arguments: F-. Your arguments betray your ideological bankruptcy in finding, somehow, a way to remove Trump from the presidency. Just stick to the facts in the future and maybe I can take your arguments seriously: Your attacks against my character are nothing. I don't care how much you convince moderators here that you're innocent of making spurious claims on a personal level. You'll avoid infractions, but you won't avoid my ire. Your arguments are a complete lie which you will get away with.

[Gaidin]

I SAID NOTHING OF TRUMP. JUST MUELLER’S CASE.

I will admit you twist words like a lawyer. So are you a lawyer? Should this case that is making legit legal progress continue?

yourself or don’t. It’s your reputation on this board. Thread the rules as a Trumpite or admit progress is there. People way above your thirty year old ass see it.

Is Mueller’s Case fake news or real?

[Pontifex Maximus]

I SAID NOTHING OF TRUMP. JUST MUELLER’S CASE.

Oh how clever.

I will admit you twist words like a lawyer. So are you a lawyer? Should this case that is making legit legal progress continue?

I accept your admission, and reply that no, there appears to be not even a civil standard for the proof of evidence here. I assume you know what a civil standard of evidence is since you're such a legal scholar. Hide behind you moderation disclaimers all you want, it isn't fooling me. You're just begging for special treatment. I'll play along since I have a thick skin and your arguments are do bad.

yourself or don’t. It’s your reputation on this board. Thread the rules as a Trumpite or admit progress is there. People way above your thirty year old ass see it.

Oh no, what I say here has no effect on my legal opinion. Especially given your...sub par arguments offered in favor.

Is Mueller’s Case fake news or real?

Is Mueller's case complete? If not, why is it real news? If so, why is it real news?

Man, even if I'm a fake lawyer you walked into so many perjury traps it wouldn't take a real lawyer to discredit you.

[Gaidin]

It’s news because FOIA(or similar) and the only rooms they keep the press out of are Grand Jury. Stop ing acting like we’re Great Britain until a law is passed to make us such.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It’s news because FOIA and the only rooms they keep the press out of are Grand Jury. Stop ing acting like we’re Great Britain until a law is passed to make us such.

I accept your surrender. You may your keep your pistol.

[Gaidin]

Thanks for reminding me why I never explain engineering to a curious soul.

Youre as ing lazy as me and can’t bother getting calculus across to them on this board.

But I do know one thing. You ain’t arguing with the federal judge that thinks the investigation has made enough progress and argumentatively can make six months more. So frak off.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Thanks for reminding me why I never explain engineering to a curious soul.

Youre as ing lazy as me and can’t bother getting calculus across to them on this board.

But I do know one thing. You ain’t arguing with the federal judge that thinks the investigation has made enough progress and argumentatively can make six months more. So frak off.

Oh if I could do that I'd charge a lot more than I do, as you might if you could design the golden gate bridge. I assume you can't. Since I'll never reach your exalted legal standard, I will "frak off"

[Gaidin]

Well. I’m an Electrcal Engineer for one. Like, literally a totally different degree. So your guess on the Bridge is spot on just not for the reason you want it to be.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Between the two of us we could bleed a municipality dry, we should collaborate.

[Gaidin]

Duuuuuude. We could at least have fun at the breweries.

[Pontifex Maximus]

My beer consumption during the winter season is waaaay too high. I love me some thick beers, we could solve all of the nation's issues.