Fake News Clarification: Volume One

[Aexodus]

Do you agree that a false narrative has pushed by a number of outlets in the MSM yes or no.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Oh the cognitive dissonance...

[Aexodus]

And about that NPR article.

During Roundtable, Trump Calls Some Unauthorized Immigrants 'Animals'

Do you not agree that this is a dishonest mis-representation? People glancing at this headline will assume Trump was issuing a blanket statement about migrants.

The honest headline would read “Trump calls cross-border gangs ‘animals’”

[Katsumoto]

Do you agree that a false narrative has pushed by a number of outlets in the MSM yes or no.

Not in any sense you're likely thinking of. Trump is an idiot who has made a lot of embarrassing gaffes and decisions that are considered rather poor. The fact that the media is relishing in his incompetence to make money should not really surprise anyone. But that doesn't mean the majority of their reporting is somehow false.

Do you not agree that this is a dishonest mis-representation? People glancing at this headline will assume Trump was issuing a blanket statement about migrants.

The honest headline would read “Trump calls cross-border gangs ‘animals’”

I'm not sure how many ways I can explain to you that I don't think Trump was clear in his wording and that a headline saying 'some unauthorized migrants' rather than 'gangs' is therefore particularly misleading, in my opinion.

[Aexodus]

Trump was clear in his wording, if you ask me ‘what do you think of MS13 gangs crossing the border and killing Americans’ why is it so unreasonable for me to say ‘Well, we have some terrible people crossing the border every day folks, and the people we’re taking out, they’re animals’. It’s perfectly clear, within context.



I dont know about you, but I would say that the New York Times is lying to the public here.



*talking about GANG MEMBERS*

[PointOfViewGun]

Brilliant logic. I am depressed that this is probably the same mentality as a majority of CNN viewers.

You are depressed about a mentality that prefers to rely on primary sources? Interesting...

It's not like it is the first time he has ever spoken about MS-13:
"During his State of the Union address to Congress on Tuesday, Trump condemned the "savage" gang and the "deadly loopholes" that he said allow members of the international gang to enter the U.S. as minors."
"The Justice Department estimates there are about 10,000 members of the El Salvador-based gang MS-13 currently in the U.S. Trump frequently calls out the gang in advocating increased border control."
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...prejudice-jury
"Trump has tweeted that “The Democrats don't want money from budget going to border wall despite the fact that it will stop drugs and very bad MS 13 gang members.” "
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/h...iticizes-ms-13
Interesting that, in her own way, even Stretch Pelosi is more honest than Katsumoto and Setekh.

It's not like any of those have any relevance to what he said at this particular time.

Some how it is more plausible that Trump was calling all immigrants animals instead of gang members in this context. I can't even deal with this level of intellectual dishonesty and hand wringing. The party of science and logic continues to ignore mounting evidence against their faulty analysis and yet still they refuse to cede an inch of ground in their disingenuous narrative that Trump is a racist.

Sigh... You have already lost the ground for passing this as a genuine concern... It's not somehow that we think Trump made a sweeping judgment in a general statement about immigrants. Trump has a history of making such sweeping judgment.

[Aexodus]

Setekh said

Except, it's actually clear that he's talking in general. I doubt he even knows about the MS-13

Infidel responded

It's not like it is the first time he has ever spoken about MS-13:
"During his State of the Union address to Congress on Tuesday, Trump condemned the "savage" gang and the "deadly loopholes" that he said allow members of the international gang to enter the U.S. as minors."
"The Justice Department estimates there are about 10,000 members of the El Salvador-based gang MS-13 currently in the U.S. Trump frequently calls out the gang in advocating increased border control."
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...prejudice-jury
"Trump has tweeted that “The Democrats don't want money from budget going to border wall despite the fact that it will stop drugs and very bad MS 13 gang members.” "
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/h...iticizes-ms-13

Interesting that, in her own way, even Stretch Pelosi is more honest than Katsumoto and Setekh.

Setekh:

It's not like any of those have any relevance to what he said at this particular time.

Setekh doesn’t understand that making a statement in response to a question about MS-13, isn’t talking about migrants in general, but about MS-13. He doesn’t understand that MS-13 is relevant to MS-13, apparently.



Does anyone in the thread want me to recount what MS-13 get up to in their spare time? What gives them their ‘spark of divinity’ as Pelosi put it? Such as raping young American girls, or that time 10 of those poor undocumented migrants stabbed the same person 100 times, cut their heart out
from their chest, then decapitated them.

Yep, definitely not animals. It’s got to the point where the media is defending these freaks.

[PointOfViewGun]

Setekh said
Infidel responded
Setekh:
Setekh doesn’t understand that making a statement in response to a question about MS-13, isn’t talking about migrants in general, but about MS-13. He doesn’t understand that MS-13 is relevant to MS-13, apparently.
Does anyone in the thread want me to recount what MS-13 get up to in their spare time? What gives them their ‘spark of divinity’ as Pelosi put it? Such as raping young American girls, or that time 10 of those poor undocumented migrants stabbed the same person 100 times, cut their heart out from their chest, then decapitated them.
Yep, definitely not animals. It’s got to the point where the media is defending these freaks.

Ugh, you're defying basic conversation rules now to defend an indefensible position... What Trump said in a different setting does not explain his statement in a particular one. That's as basic as it gets. Another basic thing is that you shouldn't make up details. Trump was not being asked a question. The woman in front of him mentioned MS-13 nonchalantly and Trump continued talking in general terms without the slightest reference to MS-13. You posted the video yourself. Maybe you should watch it for a few times.

[Aexodus]

Trump was explaining how animals like MS-13 gang members are able to easily enter and re-enter the country due to weak border laws. How is that difficult to comprehend. I’m hardly defying the basic laws of consversation, lol

Maybe this guy can explain it better for you, if you bother watching it.

[Basil II the B.S]

The funny thing about all of this is that as soon as truth came out and the lying liberal media were forced to change their pieces, liberals nonetheless felt compelled to express solidarity towards MS13 because ''we are all humans'' and they belong to one of their preferred ethnic groups anyway.

It's nothing different from the crap that's going on in Europe when refugees rape and liberals delay reports or try to cover up the case because they feel sorry for the rapist based on his ethnicity. Amazing.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Relying in primary sources is fine if you're capable of digesting the information coherently and logically. When you're unable to do that you shouldn't rely on primary sources for your information.

[Aexodus]

After defending Hamas terrorists, they’re now sympathetic towards murderous rapists. They know no depths, apparently.

In other news, an MS-13 gang member nicknamed ‘animal’ was convicted this week for 40 years for stabbing a 15 year old boy from Massachusetts 3 times as part of his initiation.

[PointOfViewGun]

Trump was explaining how animals like MS-13 gang members are able to easily enter and re-enter the country due to weak border laws. How is that difficult to comprehend. I’m hardly defying the basic laws of consversation, lol
Maybe this guy can explain it better for you, if you bother watching it.

The fact tat you're unable to address what I actually and simply continue to repeat your claims is evidence enough of the lack of merits of your position. Trump makes no mention of MS-13, makes no reference to them in any way, and his language is entirely generic in the way he talks.

Relying in primary sources is fine if you're capable of digesting the information coherently and logically. When you're unable to do that you shouldn't rely on primary sources for your information.

Exactly, though if you're reading the primary source wrong like you demonstrated earlier secondary sources will not help much either. The failure to address people's arguments and diving into veiled personal attacks is evidence enough of your position's value.

[Infidel144]

It's not like any of those have any relevance to what he said at this particular time.

And? It not a response to what Trump said.
It is a response to your claim "Except, it's actually clear that he's talking in general. I doubt he even knows about the MS-13."
For some who does not know about "the MS-13" he has been going on about MS-13 for some time:
Two examples from earlier this year provided above.
An example from almost a year ago:
“I am the big, big admirer, and believer, in law enforcement, from day one,” he said. “We are going to destroy the vile criminal cartel, MS-13, and many other criminal gangs.”
https://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...te-MS-13-gang/
And from over a year ago:
“Sessions is doing a fantastic job: announced today new steps to dismantle violent gangs like MS-13. I promised to get tough and we are!”
https://www.boston.com/news/politics...13-street-gang

Now, since you also assert ""Except, it's actually clear that he's talking in general",
what exactly is the "in general" that he is talking about?

[antaeus]

I think it might have been Jon Favreau or Tommy Vietor who said that this tactic should be used more by mainstream media.

It's a deliberate tactic, where a news organisation puts up a clickbaity header on social media or a news clip that is technically not incorrect, but deliberately disingenuous to what was being said, then quietly issues an apology and a withdrawal a day or so later.

Favreau noted that it was a tactic that Fox started with back in the late 00s, and that the other news organisations were losing out in the media wars by calling out Fox because those who would believe the statement had already heard it by then and weren't reading the apology that followed (as evidenced by opinions in both directions in this thread). His suggestion was that other news organisations shouldn't bother calling Fox out, but rather should just do the same thing as Fox.

Of course he was being tongue in cheek and had no real solution, but these articles are clear examples of mainstream and even state supported news playing the same game as Fox, which I guess serves to reinforce cognitive biases amongst those who hate Trump in the same way Fox does it for the Republicans.

As a side note, when Favreau and Vietor were talking about it, ironically I don't think Trump was in power, but rather was still suffering Fox's ire through this kind of reporting himself when they were clearly backing more traditional Republican candidates... In that sense, Trump copped it from Fox back when Fox led the way with this kind of reporting, now he's copping it again from more mainstream media now they're jumping on board.

[I_Damian]

"The left" know that Trump was talking about MS-13 gang members when he said "they're animals". They know. Everybody who listened to the whole thing knows he was talking about MS-13. The reason they're pretending he said it about all immigrants is obvious. It's another opportunity to poison even more people against him. Remember when they said "he admitted to sexually assaulting women"? He actually didn't. He said that when you're rich and famous women let you grab them by a certain part of the female anatomy. He said he engaged in consensual acts of a sexual nature with women, who allowed it because he was rich and famous. The left went crazy and said he admitted to sexual assault. 2016 was a great year. It exposed an entire wing of the political spectrum for what it really is.

That said, the right do it too. That's the glory of being in the center, not being "left" or "right". You can see it on both sides. Both sides are equally broken and equally need sweeping away and replacing. But that'll never happen because people are too entrenched in their biases. This is the way it's going to stay as the western world slowly commits mass suicide over the next 5 decades.

[PointOfViewGun]

And? It not a response to what Trump said.
It is a response to your claim "Except, it's actually clear that he's talking in general. I doubt he even knows about the MS-13."
For some who does not know about "the MS-13" he has been going on about MS-13 for some time:
Two examples from earlier this year provided above.
An example from almost a year ago:
“I am the big, big admirer, and believer, in law enforcement, from day one,” he said. “We are going to destroy the vile criminal cartel, MS-13, and many other criminal gangs.”
https://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...te-MS-13-gang/
And from over a year ago:
“Sessions is doing a fantastic job: announced today new steps to dismantle violent gangs like MS-13. I promised to get tough and we are!”
https://www.boston.com/news/politics...13-street-gang

Now, since you also assert ""Except, it's actually clear that he's talking in general",
what exactly is the "in general" that he is talking about?

Sigh... It doesn't make sense explicitly because you're trying to address what I said. What Trump said elsewhere doesn't make what he said in a particular conversation mean anything. This should have been really simple...

In his statements, Trump makes no reference to MS-13, their members or their crimes. The language he is uses is entirely generic. If you have any markers you'd like to point out, let us know.

[Aexodus]

The people coming into the country he’s referring to are clearly MS-13. Perhaps its more difficult to see those whom English isnt their first language, or indeed, can’t accept any other truth than that Trump is an evil fascist.

[Infidel144]

Sigh... This is really no rocket science. You know that well, since you try to deflect from acknowledging the simplicities here. Does any of his references to MS-13 elsewhere mean he was directly talking about MS-13 in every point he made in a particular instance? No. Any problem with that? I hope not.

Now what should be noted here is that I have twice now indicated that my providing Trump's statements about MS-13 was in reference to Setekh's assertion about Trump's knowledge of MS-13 ("I doubt he even knows about the MS-13").

Sigh, numero deux... "people coming into the country" is the subject of his statement in that video.

Hmmm... I've 'come into the country' on several occasions. So, according to Setekh, Trump was referring to me. That is very interesting. Come to think of it, Trump has 'come into the country' on a multitude of occasions. Trump was referring to himself. And didn't his daughter and son-in-law just 'come into the country' a short while back from Israel...
More interesting is: does Setekh actually believe that...

[Prodromos]

The mainstream media generally only lies in a way that would allow them 'plausible deniability', but what we're seeing from this incident, as well as during the Hamas operation in Gaza recently, is that despite the truth being in full display, the media still lies about it. It's pretty horrifying when you think about it. I always thought that the fears about the media's bias were exaggerated, but after the past month or so, it's become clear that the media is one of the most dangerous threats to American liberty.