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Thread: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

  1. #1
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    MELBOURNE (Reuters) - Australian Catholic Archbishop Philip Wilson said on Wednesday he would stand aside from his duties, a day after a court found him guilty of concealing child sex abuse by a priest.

    Wilson, who faces up to two years in prison, said he was still considering the court’s reasons for the judgment.
    “While I do so, it is appropriate that, in the light of some of his honour’s findings, I stand aside from my duties as archbishop,” Wilson said in a statement emailed to media.

    The archbishop of Adelaide, the capital of South Australia state, and former president of the Catholic Church’s top body in Australia, said he will permanently resign as archbishop if it becomes “necessary or appropriate”.

    Wilson was accused of covering up a serious indictable offence by another priest, James Fletcher, after being told about it in 1976 when he was an assistant parish priest in the state of New South Wales.
    Lawyers for Wilson, 67, had argued that he did not know that Fletcher had abused a boy. Fletcher was found guilty in 2004 of nine counts of child sexual abuse and died in jail in 2006 following a stroke.
    Wilson is expected to be sentenced in June by a local court in the city of Newcastle, New South Wales.

    Last year, Australia completed a five-year government-appointed inquiry into child sex abuse in churches and other institutions, amid allegations worldwide that churches had protected pedophile priests by moving them from parish to parish.

    The inquiry heard that seven percent of Catholic priests working in Australia between 1950 and 2010 had been accused of child sex crimes and that nearly 1,100 people had filed child sexual assault claims against the Anglican Church over 35 years.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...KCN1IO02I?il=0

    The crime is not the sexual abuse, but the cover up. Seems similar to other political news in the USA regarding the current President and those around him. I wonder if this will become a political football beyond the Priest and the Bishop. Are Australians as bonkers as Americans when it comes to scandals and hysteria?

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    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Praetorio
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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Meanwhile, in reality, this witch doctor protected a child rapist, because he valued his temple and idols more than the injustice of children being raped. A court of his peers has discovered that he could have prevented further abuse. He didn't. He is a criminal.

    The fact he only faces two years' incarceration is the only real scandal. He should be fed to sharks.

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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    This is semi-related, but are you guys aware that Cardinal George Pell, the third most senior Catholic in the world (in charge of the Vatican's finances) is currently on trial for allegedly molesting two children in Melbourne?
    I saw him coming out of court a few weeks ago, there were dozens of police and even more media all snapping pictures, filming and yelling questions.
    Are you interested in running the Picture of the Week and Video of the Month Competitions? You MUST be willing to dedicate time to the competitions and you MUST have a good Moderation record. Read this thread to see what is involved and contact Flinn and Commissar Caligula_

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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    The crime is not the sexual abuse, but the cover up. Seems similar to other political news in the USA regarding the current President and those around him. I wonder if this will become a political football beyond the Priest and the Bishop. Are Australians as bonkers as Americans when it comes to scandals and hysteria?
    Everyone should be equal before the law. It is important to send the message that a) those who cover up for child molesters will join them in prison, particularly in the wake of several huge child abuse scandals in the UK (on top of the Vatican's chronic problem), and b) no one is exempt from the rule of law, be they celebrities, artists, other specially privileged groups, or priests of any denomination.

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    antaeus's Avatar Whataboutery
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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Australians are bonkers when it comes to scandals.

    But that's a whole other story.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  6. #6

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    This is semi-related, but are you guys aware that Cardinal George Pell, the third most senior Catholic in the world (in charge of the Vatican's finances) is currently on trial for allegedly molesting two children in Melbourne?
    I saw him coming out of court a few weeks ago, there were dozens of police and even more media all snapping pictures, filming and yelling questions.
    Seems a certain negative/dangerous influence mentioned in the Bible has been attempting to infiltrate the Vatican for a while.

    What's weird is this sexual abuses coming up after the amount of Masons in the Vatican increased exponentially, at the same time Church became more liberal with sexuality.
    Before Masonic infiltration (and USSR subvertion, they and Vatican were enemies) and before the times were more looseness on sexuality was tolerated, there are no records of such things.

    Now I'm not blaming masonry or USSR don't get me wrong, but does have some correlation with the progressive easing up happening since the Second Vatican Council in the 60s.

    Tangencially EMM and PA so I can't elaborate much more.
    Last edited by fkizz; May 23, 2018 at 04:14 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Just a note, he has voluntarily (and temporarily) stepped aside, he has not been dismissed. His "brother Bishops" issued a letter a few days ago supporting his decision not to step down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Meanwhile, in reality, this witch doctor protected a child rapist, because he valued his temple and idols more than the injustice of children being raped. A court of his peers has discovered that he could have prevented further abuse. He didn't. He is a criminal.

    The fact he only faces two years' incarceration is the only real scandal. He should be fed to sharks.
    The Church in Australia has consistently followed a policy of silencing victims, and until recently, shielding ordinated offenders from prosecution.

    There's the case of the paedophile priest Bongiorno, who molested two young brothers. Their mother was attempting to bring a criminal prosecution and she was murdered: the priest was seen leaving here shop with blood on his hands on the day she was murdered but no charges were ever laid: it emerged recently that blood samples (which had seemed to exonerate Bongiorno) from the scene had been tampered with.

    Its pretty clear that until the 1980's many in the priesthood felt they were above the law and their superiors (and others) covered up their crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    This is semi-related, but are you guys aware that Cardinal George Pell, the third most senior Catholic in the world (in charge of the Vatican's finances) is currently on trial for allegedly molesting two children in Melbourne?
    I saw him coming out of court a few weeks ago, there were dozens of police and even more media all snapping pictures, filming and yelling questions.
    Pell is seen as a "new broom" to clean out corruption in the Vatican. He is a "can-do" money man, who instituted the "Melbourne Response" to protect the Churches finances and reputation.

    He was Bishop of Ballarat after an infamous period when four or five notorious priests enjoyed a decade of unreported offending, and gradually retired the offenders (most of whom have now been charged and convicted). This happened in several regions, where notorious priests were allowed to continue for many years, and some who were removed as public outrage flared were even re-instated by direct orders from the Vatican.

    Pell's relative success in cleaning up that scandalous mess (he delayed prosecutions until some of the priests and victims were dead, generally wielded legal threats heavily and saved the church a great deal of money in legal fees) led to his appointment as Archbishop of Melbourne, where he organised the trust to protect the Churches money (making most of its incredible wealth untouchable, based on a legal fiction that there is no "catholic church" per se, just some loosely allied institutions). He also limited payouts and tied all payments to victims to confidentiality clauses. He essentially put money over justice, priests over laity and a false image of church goodness over the truth.

    This is the "cleanskin" picked to save the Vatican's integrity.

    After his promotion to Rome the policy has continued. When asked at a Royal Cpommission to report on available assets the Church responded slowly and finally gave a listing of values at the time given, that is to say, if a piece of land was donated in 1850 at a value of 10,000 pounds it was reported as being worth that, not current value. This sort of vile duplicity is truly satanic. I have to say the upper echelons of the Catholic (and other churches) in Australia are marked by greed, loyalty to themselves over their country and motivated to protect criminals in the priesthood and other hierarchic positions ahead of the laity and non-members.

    I am stunned at the charges, but the police have generally shown great conservatism in making cases based on such old allegations. I had previously thought Pell was personally well behaved, dishonestly protecting his erring brothers for the good of the Church's image, but the allegations are he was one of the rapists all along.

    Religious groups do a great deal of good in my country, but the upper echelons have disgraced themselves by protecting criminals and allowing them to continue offending: this has been a constant theme. They have used mandated silence, the seal of the confessional, the threat of legal action and their huge wealth and influence to escape justice.

    I think on top of all the charges, all the rapes and lies and evasion that needs to be punished, there should be a blanket fine of several billion dollars. We need to hit these money grubbing paedophile protectors where it hurts: their policies indicate they love money more than justice, let justice be done to their money.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  8. #8

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Was Wilson convicted by a jury, or was it a bench trial?


  9. #9

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I think on top of all the charges, all the rapes and lies and evasion that needs to be punished, there should be a blanket fine of several billion dollars. We need to hit these money grubbing paedophile protectors where it hurts: their policies indicate they love money more than justice, let justice be done to their money.
    Confiscation of all church assets by their host nations would be a good way to start...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Confiscation of all church assets by their host nations would be a good way to start...
    Legally in Australia 'the Church" does not exist as an entity, as established when someone tried to sue them for letting him be raped repeatedly and conceal the perp.

    As I said, they have tucked their assets into a variety if trusts which are considered "bullet proof" and would require specific legislation to change that status. The Catholic Church wields enormous clout in the two main parties so its highly unlikely that will happen.

    The Catholic Church does deliver a lot of aid and educational programs. The ordinary Christian in Australia is generally a sincere and good person who looks to make society better, often quite altruistically. It would hurt my country to completely wipe out any of the big churches (ditto Islamic and Jewish and other communities). However the actions of the ordinate and especially the upper echelons in covering up for rapists and the grudging concessions that have to be wrung from them every step of the way suggest there is thorough and entrenched evil among the Bishops. They don't want justice, they wield and cling to power instead. Above all they love money.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #11

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    This seems to have nothing specially to do with Catholicism. Covering up the crimes of your colleagues is par for the course in most organizations, which includes sexual crimes. Get on any search engine and do a search for "'sex abuse' [any community or organization]". You'll get numerous results.

    Jehovah's Witnesses:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...child-abuse-uk

    Mormons:

    http://kutv.com/news/local/several-v...d-sexual-abuse

    Atheists:

    https://theestablishment.co/why-are-...e-26cddb5ce63b

    Teachers:

    http://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/...abuse-teachers

    Military:

    https://archives.cjr.org/united_stat...omens_mili.php

    And on and on.

    In these immoral times, women and children are under attack from all directions, because we tolerate evil instead of punishing it. The more people abandon religion, the more this will happen.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The Church in Australia has consistently followed a policy of silencing victims, and until recently, shielding ordinated offenders from prosecution.
    You don't simply follow such a policy, you need support from plenty of outside-the-Church powerful players.

    Though making it sound more simple and less conspirative, might basically be the issue like Dr. Legend said. But Media gives a Catholic-only focused point of view.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ever heard Msm talking about pizzagate?


    Like the observation bias with the reporting on Shark Attacks:
    on the years they were reported, statistically the number of shark attacks was exactly the same low average as ever, but mass media mentioning it gives a Hommunculli perception.

    To give an Analogy, in Thailand the country is so used to drug trafficking that even Buddhist Monks have been found trafficking it. The Clerical class isn't invincible, Clerics come from the family of civilians.
    Last edited by fkizz; May 24, 2018 at 04:34 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  13. #13
    Praepositus
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    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    This seems to have nothing specially to do with Catholicism. Covering up the crimes of your colleagues is par for the course in most organizations, which includes sexual crimes. ...
    The only study I know of by the church into sex offences was in the Boston diocese where the commendable bishop ordered some honesty in their investigations: it was found priests offended at at least twice the rate of the general community. Most diocese conceal and refuse to disclose their data. As the largest religious grouping in the world they are responsible for more of the crimes committed than any other body. The Catholic Church has and is a particular problem, more so than most institutions.

    Churches in my country receive tax benefits on the basis that they "do good" (IIRC this is the case in the US and other places too), that is the operate at a higher moral level so their property is exempt from some of the usual taxes. They also present themselves as moral commentators on social and legal issues. It is reasonable to hold them to a higher moral standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    In these immoral times, women and children are under attack from all directions, because we tolerate evil instead of punishing it. The more people abandon religion, the more this will happen.
    I disagree that we need to "return to religion" though, the past mode of operation was unquestioning obedience to Rome, a disastrous methodology that led to the systematic rape of millions of children by the ordinate, and the concealment of those rapes, and the silencing of victims.

    The Church remains a force for good, and many factions within the church do excellent work, but the toxic institution of the Papacy and the Curia remain a nexus of political power and secrecy that allows crimes and evil to flourish. Concentrations of power and wealth attract the greedy insane and evil, as well as those who would do good. They need to be open so the light can reach the crimes of the evil and illuminate the work of the good.

    There's a way forward on this, but to go back to how it was before is condemning more children to rape and silence.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  14. #14

    Default Re: Aussie Archbishop falls as a repercussion of Priest convected of sex scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The only study I know of by the church into sex offences was in the Boston diocese where the commendable bishop ordered some honesty in their investigations: it was found priests offended at at least twice the rate of the general community.


    It could be because they have more access to children than an average person would. I would bet teachers are also more likely to offend than an average person. Most people rarely have an opportunity to be in that position with a child. It's just priests, teachers, mentors, parents, etc.

    Parents should drill it into their kids that molestation is extremely serious and must be reported. It should be taught from an early age. Every parent thinks there is no need for it and it can never happen to them, until it happens to them.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

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