Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

  1. #1

    Icon5 Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    So i love playing as lusitania, and as the aruenoi. But one crippling thing is stopping me from enjoying them. How could either factions possibly from a historical point of view. Escaped the peninsula and conquered the world?

    I mean as the celts, you can RP a migration, Same with germanics. Or the Saka. But the two iberian factions, need more history i think about them. Because it is really hard to play a faction, that has so little history or post at least that show the faction as being advanced enough to have conquered more than just their one peninsula. I mean there seems to be no indication that i have seen on T.V or read, that shows indications of Iberian warbands marching around italy. (that were independent from carthage)

    Can we have some more history posted about Iberia? These two factions have so much potential, but i just don't know enough about them to justify expanding past the peninsula.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Trarco is your man here, but the Celtiberians were all over the western Mediterranean as mercenaries in this period. It's not a coincidence that you can find them in north Africa and Sicily as mercs and potentially settlers. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to consider those men who've been doing mercenary service abroad returning home to tell their fellows of the rich lands they've seen in their travels just ripe for the taking.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Thank you for the response Quintus. It would be nice to have a thread dedicated to each faction, with information and real life pictures of artifacts, or even drawings of them, such as the thread with the osprey pics.

    I suppose the problem with iberians are, would historically iberians just raid, and terrorize the romans? and carthage? I cant find any reference to a group of iberians saying "OK we are going to France to build a colony there" I may just be unaware of this, and would love some more history.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    I have similar OCD about realistic expansion, so I just stick to factions that are easier to roleplay. Usually people just throw realism out the window when playing barbarian factions though there was an AAR by parthian8 where he went to 350 turns with the Lugiones and only held 7 settlements by that time.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    It's doubtful that a Lusitanian chief of this time period would ever rule distant territories from their own homeland, but I think what Quintus is saying is that it wouldn't be implausible for a Lusitanian strongman to leave Iberia with a host of followers and create a new realm in one of the fertile regions of the Mediterranean

  6. #6

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Hang on, no. I said Celtiberian, not Leusitane; they're two very different things. That's why they're two different factions with different dynamics.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckitz View Post
    It's doubtful that a Lusitanian chief of this time period would ever rule distant territories from their own homeland, but I think what Quintus is saying is that it wouldn't be implausible for a Lusitanian strongman to leave Iberia with a host of followers and create a new realm in one of the fertile regions of the Mediterranean

    Ok. I get what your saying. That does make logical and historical sense. They are a Migration / purposely kept small band. I can abandon the old regions as we move. Ok so like Germanic migrating hordes but with iberians. Sort of the story of galatians.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    Ok. I get what your saying. That does make logical and historical sense. They are a Migration / purposely kept small band. I can abandon the old regions as we move. Ok so like Germanic migrating hordes but with iberians. Sort of the story of galatians.
    That's one approach to take. However, it assumes that the Lusotannan you're playing reached their final form in 272 B.C. As the team once said (often) about EBI, history is off the rails once you hit the end turn button.

    Let's say that it's 232 B.C. You've united the Iberian Peninsula over the course of forty years (probably giving the AI some slack so that you can fight actual stacks instead of steamrolling the Areuakoi right out of the gate) and built up your infrastructure. Your starting FL is probably getting old (or maybe you had him "die heroically" in the wars against some Eleutheroi). Well, why stop at the Straits of Gibraltar? Carthage probably still wants her colonies back, so you should send your warriors into the Moorish provinces, "just in case" (and anyway, your new FL needs to do SOMETHING spectacular to not be overshadowed by his predecessor). At this point, your FL is used to "governing" (read: arbitrating territorial disputes, overseeing marriages, engaging in reciprocal social visits) with Iberians, Celtiberians,Phoenecians, etc. so doing the same kind of thing with the Maure chieftains isn't too much of a stretch. Sure, they aren't as closely related as Iberians and Celtiberians, but they're certainly not demons/aliens/whatever, and at least some of them recognize that the Lusotannan are a powerful confederation. Heck, hire some on in your army: it's not like the idea of using mercenaries is unknown in Iberia.

    So now you have some African provinces. Either Numidia ate Carthage, in which case, they represent a rival for control of the Maures, or Carthage is still around ruling her colonial empire. It shouldn't be too out of the way to "liberate" a couple of the North African provinces (I forget the name of the provinces that Carthage has in the Algeira-ish region, but I think one is Iol?) Or maybe some Nuraghic notables who are out of favor with Carthage came to your court/assembly and asked for help restoring their "rightful" places in Sardinia, or the Greeks of Alalia offer you submission and tribute if you'll just "liberate" them from their Punic masters. Regardless, you did build a really nice fleet in the Iberian cities, and it would exalt your status back home to go and campaign in these far-off islands...

    The above is basically a really long way of saying that, if you try hard enough, you can probably come up with a reason for any faction on the map to conquer a fairly large chunk of it. Remember: you're representing the ruling elite of these various factions (specifically the warrior elite in most cases). Whether you internally justify it as forcing other peoples into submission (remember, this is pre-Enlightenment, pre-National Self-Determination, pre-UN.) or as reinforcing the existing elites (with an attached "protection fee/tribute payment" of course), it's in your interest to go on military adventures, plunder new lands, head off threats, etc.

    Remember, in the course of the EBII timeline, the Saka went from a semi-notable steppe tribe (who got driven West by the Yuezhi, themselves something of a second-rate power on the Eastern Steppes) to a series of wealthy and powerful kingdoms that stretched deep into India, the Pahlava went from a really minor tribe to a Great Power, and Rome went from an Italian city-state with "allies" to an empire with possessions on three continents! Institutions are flexible: just because you didn't start with imperial-style institutions doesn't mean you can't rule over a series of de jure "allied" peoples who are de facto under the sway of a Lusotannan state.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Thanks that is indeed true. I suppose when we get even more units, to represent regions, it will be easier to distinguish this kind of culture fusion. And add to the role playing aspect.

    edit: Also so as not to create another thread, Is there a record or any sort of info we have on the power of bows the saka, or phalava used? such as 40 lbs? on horseback? It is said that Native Americans in USA never really went above 45 lb bows.
    Last edited by moisesjns; May 24, 2018 at 08:02 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    In the future, Iberian factions will have more political events representing spring raids, internal wars, political marriages, etc. Note that the Lusitanian governments are just placeholders. In the future they will have a new system of governments and two different system of colonies. They will also have the possibility of establishing a petty kingdom (During the wars against Rome, Lusitanians conquered allied cities of Rome, had allies of different ethnicities and developed an advanced diplomacy inspired on the Punic one). Anyway, about some tips for RP, it's true that Iberians didn't organize huge migrations outside of the Iberian Peninsula, except in the case of Lusitanians that attacked important cities in north Africa during the war against Rome but you can still roleplaying different events. Let me explain. First of all, don't think you are unifying the whole Iberian Peninsula, instead think that each province have several city-states that in times of war can form some confederations. So, it would be fun to have non-centralized armies and fight against other factions with "local armies". I will post a guide of Iberian armies like I did with Carthage.

    Establish centres of mercenary recruitment in the Mediterranean coast. This way, you can organize mercenary armies that would fight in Sicily either for the Punics or for the Greeks. Over time, these armies can be also formed by other mercenaries such as Greeks, Italic peoples or even Gauls. You can think of them as rebelled mercenaries who have achieved some cities to create a political community (something historically accurate: ) with its own coins and institutions. You could also think of them as recruited mercenaries loyal to a local community like Carthage (this could mean a beautiful war against Rome for example), indeed, you have a Celtiberian colony only available in Sicily to represent these matters, and it allows you to recruit several mercenaries of different ethnicities. Celtiberians also have a developed system of ancillaries and traits that really makes easy to roleplay with them. They represent warrior values, mercenarism, cattle wealth, political charges, generalship, etc. In the future we will add events for your Celtiberian diplomats that will be able to participate in juridical conflicts of neighbouring cities and a system of annual tribunals that could punish your FMs if they have stolen cattle.

    If you want something less historical, you could organize some migrations with the western Celtic-Iberian peoples to the Atlantic coast inspired on the Irish mythology.

    BTW, you are right, in the future with the new Iberian regionals, these campaigns will get more flavour (for example, we will recover the Cantabrian axemen with whom you could roleplay mercenarism in Aquitaine for example).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Celtiberians also have a developed system of ancillaries and traits that really makes easy to roleplay with them. They represent warrior values, mercenarism, cattle wealth, political charges, generalship, etc. In the future we will add events for your Celtiberian diplomats that will be able to participate in juridical conflicts of neighbouring cities and a system of annual tribunals that could punish your FMs if they have stolen cattle.
    On this point, from an expansion out of Iberia point of view for the Celtiberians, there are unique traits and ancillaries tied to colonizing Sicily. You can get a settled mercenary companion, and become one yourself there.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Another question i had. Why do they not have archers? I mean was it just a culture thing? like bows considered cowardly, and javelins / slings manly? Out of all the cultures in Europe, why no archers??

    Also so as not to create another thread is there any historical document or reference to what weight was on the bows of the saka, or pahlavians? 45 lb draw weight? it is said that the Native americans did not often go above 45 lb bows, as that was enough to kill deer, or elk. I would love to know so i can buy another bow that the scythians would have used.

    This article at the following URL says they would not have been over 30 lbs. http[:]//www[.]atarn[.]org/chinese/Yanghai/Scythian_bow_ATARN.pdf

    ALSO ty traco for the response that will be amazing to see. Im not sure if you and the team ever feel down, that not a lot of ppl play the mod, but know a lot of people do. there are a lot of people who play and love the mod but just dont have an account to post.
    Last edited by moisesjns; May 24, 2018 at 08:28 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    Another question i had. Why do they not have archers? I mean was it just a culture thing? like bows considered cowardly, and javelins / slings manly? Out of all the cultures in Europe, why no archers??
    Archaeologically speaking, Iberian bows and arrows are poorly attested. Additionally, they neither appear in the military written sources nor are frequent in the Iberian art. It's thought that like in the archaic Greece, in the Iberian conception the use of the bows and arrows was a cowardly way to fight and something just reserved for hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    ALSO ty traco for the response that will be amazing to see. Im not sure if you and the team ever feel down, that not a lot of ppl play the mod, but know a lot of people do. there are a lot of people who play and love the mod but just dont have an account to post.
    Thanks We are okay, in fact, currently we are working on one of the most interesting Iberian regional units.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Iberians should have the best skirmishers in the game at least. As for the culture read somewhere that history didnt do them justice. They were said to be a separate culture from the rest of celts and barbarians, they were more like the greeks and carthaginians than celts. The romans even got their swords and a lot of military influence from the iberians. I liked much more the lusitanians of the EB1 than these ones. The units were just beautiful, very accurate. For example Scortamareva, which were spearman reflected so well this mix of celtic and greco roman influence. Gestikapoinan and caetranan very accurate versatile iberian warriors with their topknot bun and huge shield with lusitanian pattern and breastplate (100%). And their voices were awesome. GESTIKAPOINAN !!

    Something about EB 1 seems that the units were better and more beautiful, and had a different light to it. Maybe that has to do with the original game. The units of EB2 seem to be more fat and disproportionate.

    Check the lusitanian units of EB1 here:

    https://www.europabarbarorum.com/EB1...nan_units.html

  15. #15

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Archaeologically speaking, Iberians of the EB1 are not accurate at all (there are armours that never existed and others such as the bronze breastplates are too archaic to the 3rd century BC). In fact several corrections of some Iberian elements of EB2 inherited from EB1 are still pending

  16. #16

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trarco View Post
    BTW, you are right, in the future with the new Iberian regionals, these campaigns will get more flavour (for example, we will recover the Cantabrian axemen with whom you could roleplay mercenarism in Aquitaine for example).
    Yay, finally some AP unit on the peninsula.


    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    Also so as not to create another thread is there any historical document or reference to what weight was on the bows of the saka, or pahlavians? 45 lb draw weight? it is said that the Native americans did not often go above 45 lb bows, as that was enough to kill deer, or elk. I would love to know so i can buy another bow that the scythians would have used.

    This article at the following URL says they would not have been over 30 lbs. http[:]//www[.]atarn[.]org/chinese/Yanghai/Scythian_bow_ATARN.pdf
    It's a totally unrelated topic so you'd be justified to open a new thread. That way, you might also attract more views from bow and steppe culture experts.


    Quote Originally Posted by kingofportugal View Post
    Something about EB 1 seems that the units were better and more beautiful, and had a different light to it. Maybe that has to do with the original game. The units of EB2 seem to be more fat and disproportionate.
    EB 1 has a great aesthetic for the most part. My personal favorites were the Suebi units. That said, aside from what Trarco said regarding historical accuracy, I've found that the units of EB 2 sometimes look better and more natural on the battlefield than they do on the unit cards.
    I wasn't a great fan of the Lusitanians in EB 1 though. Their tech tree was very weak and their sword units were chronically anemic due to the low lethality value. Plus, I disliked the faction colour; it's just the wrong shade of brown IMO. Also, EB 2 does much more interesting things with tech trees and government systems customized for each faction.

  17. #17
    Marvzilla's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    North-Rhine Westphalia,Germany.
    Posts
    1,043

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trarco View Post
    Archaeologically speaking, Iberian bows and arrows are poorly attested. Additionally, they neither appear in the military written sources nor are frequent in the Iberian art. It's thought that like in the archaic Greece, in the Iberian conception the use of the bows and arrows was a cowardly way to fight and something just reserved for hunting.



    Thanks We are okay, in fact, currently we are working on one of the most interesting Iberian regional units.
    Thats something I find weird, Greeks had an cultural aversion to wartime archery but some of the most important Heroes and Gods were strong Archers with powerful bows, Hercules or Odysseus for example.

    Also on the bow question of the Saka I dont have any source etc atm but I couldnt imagine them staying so low. Yeah maybe you need only such and such poundages to kill a man but why not go higher, even if only to show off or train draw strength ?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Romans and other Italics didn't use the bow for war, either. They, like the various peoples of Iberia, preferred the javelin.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Romans and other Italics didn't use the bow for war, either. They, like the various peoples of Iberia, preferred the javelin.

    Did they also hunt only with javelins? If so did they do sort of what modern day archers do? Set up a blind or build a small tree house to sit in along a path that the animals they hunted frequented.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Question about the Iberians. and Iberic factions.

    Aristocrats hunted on horseback. Unless you're trained from a young age to use the bow in the saddle, a javelin is much easier to handle. I'm sure poor men hunting to fill a pot used a sling.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •