Creating new specific ability based on native faction province

[leonardusius]

Hi,

I want to create a new ability owned only by particular faction based on its native province recruitment. With other words, for example, I want to create an ability which is unique only for troops raised in Dacia province and only if its culture (daco-thracian) is a majority (or to a % extent) and only by its faction generals. This means no foreign culture generals can recruit my troops if conquer Dacia (only mercenaries and this mercenaries to not have this ability), nor myself if my culture isn't major in Dacia, nor my generals from other faction provinces (even if they have my culture (daco-thracian inside and/or a major one). So I want to link some ability with only one land and with only one culture.
Thanks a lot pals.

[Jake Armitage]

Ok.
What do you intend with "nor my generals from other faction provinces (even if they have my culture (daco-thracian inside and/or a major one)."?

One thing I can probably do (thanks for idea , will do it together if you're interested) is to put recruiting active only when you have a certain % of culture in a certain province/region.
That's a medieval 2 feature. It is doable for Rome through a script and derived effects. Most probably.
Would be simplier if possibility of recruiting would be on/off. So mercenaries only.

That's a really good idea, man! +rep
I will surely try to find out how to script this, probably need some time though.

[leonardusius]

Ok.
What do you intend with "nor my generals from other faction provinces (even if they have my culture (daco-thracian inside and/or a major one)."?

One thing I can probably do (thanks for idea , will do it together if you're interested) is to put recruiting active only when you have a certain % of culture in a certain province/region.
That's a medieval 2 feature. It is doable for Rome through a script and derived effects. Most probably.
Would be simplier if possibility of recruiting would be on/off. So mercenaries only.

That's a really good idea, man! +rep
I will surely try to find out how to script this, probably need some time though.

Yea, I'm sure Trajan could not recruit dacian units after conquest; only mercenaries in auxiliary troops. That's for sure a historical documented fact. And it is valid for almost ALL others, as a clear principle. But, historically, the roman administration could raise native troops only after sufficient time of ruling; this mean 2-3-4 generations, depending, or at least 40-50 years after conquest. To let native population have enough time to psychological healing the conquest trauma/invasion of a new culture. So, after conquest, the daco-thracian culture diminished a lot, due to many factors (a great percentage of population into slavery, a lot of others fleeing to the 'free dacians' beyond the 'limes', little interest of the remaining population to follow culture events, a lot of roman forbidden native events, new cultures entering zone with the administration and the foreign troops, etc). In fact, dacian culture never regained its status; after 3-4 generations it ceased to exist as a sole culture but only very diluted and transformed due to foreign culture brought by and with the roman colonization.
So, for game, I suggest this: when a faction province is conquered, player will no more recruit native troops, only mercenaries, coupled with a heavy downfall of the native culture. And if the player can't raise an enough percentage of this culture again (I say 66%, 50% is way too little after a conquest/colonization) throw different methods, there will be no more native troops.
Second, I want this. I have a faction with a province. As long as I own this province and raise native generals, I can recruit native troops with an unique special ability due to the faction province. If I conquer a near province/region and raise there my general (which have different culture off course), and move him into my native province, he can recruit native troops but without this unique skill. That's all. In this way I want to tie a land with an unique ability and with a particular culture.
Ex.: when in Dacia, only my native dacian generals can recruit native troops which have that unique skill. Historically, it's not far from the truth, because no one, except the mercenaries, would gladly fight under foreign command and even more, to perform better than its mercenary counterpart unit (its about psychologically human). A mercenary will say: 'OK, I will fight for your money, but that's all; I don't care more and I will not try to be a superman', when a native raised not only for money but also for psychological sentiments will say: 'OK, I will do all my best to not let my enemies to conquer and destroy my family/lands/etc). It's a fundamental difference which I can't see in the game yet.
Thank you, pal.

[Jake Armitage]

You're welcome. Sincerely, I feared you were asking for something similar..., so i wanted to be sure.
Well, I'll surely try to do those packs for possible recruit based on various % culture. That's the first step, should be quite simple.

"when a faction province is conquered, player will no more recruit native troops, only mercenaries": for native troops do you intend AOR or every faction units? If you're rome, can you recruit legionaries in Dacia?
One thing is being able to recruit mercenaries only, it would be done with an effect that reduces your number of possible recruited units. Testudo has already something similar.
If you want to distinguish between units a faction can recruit, then it will be more complicated. Probably this could be done by "overhauling building system", so certain units are recruitable only when a building exists.
Or maybe this could be done doing script libraries tied to main script. Not sure 100% but it's probable. But this will require more script knowledge, more time and trials.

Let's focus on first step now. I''ll keep you updated, and surely we'll do this together, idea is yours.

[leonardusius]

You're welcome. Sincerely, I feared you were asking for something similar..., so i wanted to be sure.
Well, I'll surely try to do those packs for possible recruit based on various % culture. That's the first step, should be quite simple.

"when a faction province is conquered, player will no more recruit native troops, only mercenaries": for native troops do you intend AOR or every faction units? If you're rome, can you recruit legionaries in Dacia?
One thing is being able to recruit mercenaries only, it would be done with an effect that reduces your number of possible recruited units. Testudo has already something similar.
If you want to distinguish between units a faction can recruit, then it will be more complicated. Probably this could be done by "overhauling building system", so certain units are recruitable only when a building exists.
Or maybe this could be done doing script libraries tied to main script. Not sure 100% but it's probable. But this will require more script knowledge, more time and trials.

Let's focus on first step now. I''ll keep you updated, and surely we'll do this together, idea is yours.

'If you're rome, can you recruit legionaries in Dacia?'
The legionaries were roman citizens. So, NO, you can't recruit legionaries in Dacia normally. because there isn't any roman citizens. Or not enough. Here is AGAIN what we are talking about. If I'm Rome and in Dacia I manage somehow to have over an X percentage of roman culture (I say 66% it's perfect, but 50% is more practical in terms of game playability), than I CAN recruit legionaries in Dacia. Otherwise NOT. Keep working on this idea. I have some experience to work with PFM and change here and there, but not enough for a hardcore modder. Good luck.

[Jake Armitage]

Ok, so yes or no recruit for every recruitable unit (mercenaries excepted) depending on culture %.
I'll do more % packs, testudo style. So anyone can pick his.
Btw I don't think you would be able to do this through PFM tabs only, think it must be scripted. I'll manage somehow.
This will be for every province and every faction, but probably is best to keep AI out from this matter. Or at least his behaviour should be tested.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I'm watching this. It seems promising

[Dresden]

We used to have it setup in DeI where you could not recruit Core units without having majority culture. The scripts are probably still in the mod, just deactivated.

We removed it because its like a blunt hammer where the population system is a fine scalpel and accomplishes a similar task.

[Jake Armitage]

Yeah, I realised yesterday, checking lua functions, that state_religion could be linked to faction only (so it's not usable), while majority_religion is linked to region.
So I'll do a compromise, a decreasing malus to possible integer unit recruit, depending on majority_religion values. The higher the value the less (or impossible) recruit points.
It will work in an opposite way, but it still might offer something as a submod, since it would be smooth and not "blunting" yes/no. We'll see.
Maybe I'll add a malus to recruitment cost to simulate the difficulty to do it in hostile regions.

I'll check those scripts, if they are still somewhere.
Thanks.

[leonardusius]

Yeah, I realised yesterday, checking lua functions, that state_religion could be linked to faction only (so it's not usable), while majority_religion is linked to region.
So I'll do a compromise, a decreasing malus to possible integer unit recruit, depending on majority_religion values. The higher the value the less (or impossible) recruit points.
It will work in an opposite way, but it still might offer something as a submod, since it would be smooth and not "blunting" yes/no. We'll see.
Maybe I'll add a malus to recruitment cost to simulate the difficulty to do it in hostile regions.

I'll check those scripts, if they are still somewhere.
Thanks.

'Maybe I'll add a malus to recruitment cost to simulate the difficulty to do it in hostile regions.'
Bulleye approaching. Better than crude YES/NO of recruitment.

We used to have it setup in DeI where you could not recruit Core units without having majority culture. The scripts are probably still in the mod, just deactivated.

We removed it because its like a blunt hammer where the population system is a fine scalpel and accomplishes a similar task.

Both are complementary. Better activate it.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Both are complementary. Better activate it.

They are indeed. Population solution seems more elegant though.

[Jake Armitage]

Yesterday I've tried a couple of scripts, but it seems that majority_religion function only bring the religion name, not the %.
There is a majority_religion_percentage function, but i fear (quite sure) it only works for attila or some other TWC game, not Rome.
So probably what was planned in previous posts is simply not doable, or maybe in some way that only a real lua scripter could find. I'll ask Litharion.
I'll do something similar to what Dresden described, and see how it works.

Population is a great mechanism, but what leonardusius is searching for is a different thing. Not so far and surely incomplete, but still different.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Yesterday I've tried a couple of scripts, but it seems that majority_religion function only bring the religion name, not the %.
There is a majority_religion_percentage function, but i fear (quite sure) it only works for attila or some other TWC game, not Rome.
So probably what was planned in previous posts is simply not doable, or maybe in some way that only a real lua scripter could find. I'll ask Litharion.
I'll do something similar to what Dresden described, and see how it works.

Population is a great mechanism, but what leonardusius is searching for is a different thing. Not so far and surely incomplete, but still different.

I'm sure Litharion could enlighten us a bit. But he is busy AFAIK.

[leonardusius]

We used to have it setup in DeI where you could not recruit Core units without having majority culture. The scripts are probably still in the mod, just deactivated.

We removed it because its like a blunt hammer where the population system is a fine scalpel and accomplishes a similar task.

Can you eventually make a submod reactivating the scripts ?

[Jake Armitage]

I'll do probably this weekend, I'm studying some scripts here and there to see if something more complex can be done.
Btw I'm more willing to play than modding lately...
The script Dresden is talking about is no longer in any script. But it should be easy to do.

Obviously if Dresden comes around and has that a pack, well, mostly welcome

[Jake Armitage]

I've done 3 different packs based on what Dresden was talking about.
These are alpha versions for possible future implementations, please, if someone is interested, report experience. I'll see if they can be made differently including some particular features.
They are fully compatible with anything that does not have external scripts (so mostly everything but not testudo nor benjin's video).

These effects will take place only in regions where you don't have majority culture. Not for navies 'cause I wasn't able to trigger the effect. Armies only.
Notice that effects will always take place or removed the turn after.
Check pink testudo effect icon on army panel (bottom left)

NO: recruitment points are set to -10, so impossible to recruit anyone
HARDER: -1 to recruitment points (i.e. at hard difficulty you won't be able to recruit if you have only 1 region in a province and if you don't have bonuses to recruitment points, like Rome has). + 100% to recruitment cost
COST: + 200% to recruitment cost


@ DOWNLOAD (NOT COMPATIBLE WITH TESTUDO, BENJIN'S VIDEO OR OTHER SUBMODS THAT HAVE EXTERNAL SCRIPTS)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/2k4jvz...ruit_alpha.zip

[ScipioTheGreat]

I’ll try it out

[leonardusius]

Great work ! I think the best option would be HARDER especially for matching historical facts with game play. Though NO would be more historical accurate but we cannot say that 100% of conquered population rejects hiring after conquest. In fact by diplomacy and smartness the romans conquerors in Dacia managed (but very hard tough) to enlist some native troops but only after frightening them with the menace of other barbarian hordes and in small numbers.......so, it's no way to simply hire native troops after conquest without having a great percentage of same culture. Because of that, I say: 1. HARDER, 2. NO, 3. COST.
But what if you

rom_building_recruitment_points more than -1 rom_tech_military_management_unit_cost_mod 200 (just as the 'COST' option) ? P.S. For 30 minute test it's running OK.

[Jake Armitage]

Thanks to you for proposing this.

Dunno, it's a lot of time that I don't play DeI vanilla, testudo already has a global -1 to recruitment points, and I really like this feature. Also cultural conversion is really slow. So I'm not the guy that knows how to balance this.
I made this mostly 'cause you asked and 'cause idea might be cool, now I'm interested to seek if something valuable can be done. Open to any idea.
My idea for now is to link some effects to be decided depending both on your region's culture and other bordering regions culture. This might lead to a more variable campaign and represent political and conquering changes happening in strat map during campaigns.

Consider that if you play Ptolemais i.e., your start will be really nasty, impossible with the NO pack.

[leonardusius]

Go further. One idea. I'm asking if this can be extrapolated only to foreign generals who cannot raise native troops in conquered regions; only native generals and linked with your HARDER version. And yes, cultural conversion was indeed really slow; in Dacia, for example, only after 100+ years of colonization we can speak about a latin real conversion. And this points to another aspect: the mercenary only option. If we can further go with the idea but now linking the mercenaries. I'm open to suggestions.