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Thread: Taksashilan Questions

  1. #1

    Default Taksashilan Questions

    So I decided to try a campaign as Taksahila recently and had some questions about the faction.
    /
    It seems like the bodyguard is dismounted version of the chariot unit which makes a lot of sense based on game considerations as well as the status of the chariot in the Mauryan military system, but why do these units not have any shields? I'm asking because I was recently reading Ancient Indian Warfare: With Special Reference to the Vedic Period by Sarva Daman Singh (yeah just trying to follow the user agreement ) and he seems pretty certain that dismounted charioteers were armed with sword and shield. I understand that the citations he makes are mostly focused on an earlier period, but based on the relatively low number of early Indian sources and the nature of chariot combat I was wondering why the current models are shieldless.

    In the description of the indian archers it says that they stepped on their bows to steady them while the shot, wouldn't it be basically impossible to shoot a bow at a target while stepping on it (also is this a reference to grounding the bow to string it?). Also I thought Herodotus said the Indian archers used two handed broadswords?

    Is it supposed to be impossible to recruit the sword Kshatriya from any government except the tribal one, because currently as soon as you want to build any infrastructure they become completely unavailable.

    Can the damage from maces be increased due to the mace men being nobles and part of a warrior social class, because currently they're seriously outclassed by the other less elite/poorer sword counterparts.

    Is there anyway to make elephants cheaper for Taksahila, maybe via a trait or something? At the moment, they're basically impossible for to afford even with 6 or 7 provinces and independence from the Mauryan empire, plus they're way too expensive to be worth the cost since one unit with javelins can kill a whole unit of elephants.

    Are there any planned changes to the faction?

    Finally, are there any planned new units? Just wondering because some sources (mostly the Arthashastra) say that a king should ensure that the center of his army should be made of infantry covered in armor or mail and that mail clad horses should be the center of the cavalry pointing to at least some armored groups/units in Mauryan forces which at the moment seem rather light.

    Thanks in advance for any responses, and thanks for all the amazing work on the mod!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Taksahilan Questions

    Sorry not sure if I can edit, one last question, are here any plans to add a guild for the Surįshtra because they are also mentioned with the kambojas a a warrior "guild" though they may be off map

  3. #3
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Taksahilan Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    So I decided to try a campaign as Taksahila recently and had some questions about the faction.
    /
    It seems like the bodyguard is dismounted version of the chariot unit which makes a lot of sense based on game considerations as well as the status of the chariot in the Mauryan military system, but why do these units not have any shields? I'm asking because I was recently reading Ancient Indian Warfare: With Special Reference to the Vedic Period by Sarva Daman Singh (yeah just trying to follow the user agreement ) and he seems pretty certain that dismounted charioteers were armed with sword and shield. I understand that the citations he makes are mostly focused on an earlier period, but based on the relatively low number of early Indian sources and the nature of chariot combat I was wondering why the current models are shieldless.
    The bodyguard used to be elephant-based, which caused no end of problems for the AI in sieges (it would try to assault settlements without any equipment, because of some vestigial hardcode that says an elephant is an engine - but that doesn't work in M2TW). They're now dismounted charioteers as you've identified, and the decision was made to omit shields.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    In the description of the indian archers it says that they stepped on their bows to steady them while the shot, wouldn't it be basically impossible to shoot a bow at a target while stepping on it (also is this a reference to grounding the bow to string it?). Also I thought Herodotus said the Indian archers used two handed broadswords?
    I think it's referring to a particular shot, where the archer lies down and holds the bow between their feet to use their full body strength to loose. All our two-handed animations are left-handed, I wonder if they're one-handed because of the way the model was originally made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    Is it supposed to be impossible to recruit the sword Kshatriya from any government except the tribal one, because currently as soon as you want to build any infrastructure they become completely unavailable.
    Indian recruitment is the last place that still uses some culture-linked triggers. Unfortunately, that changes too quickly to give a workable solution to the shift from tribal to urban, so that will have to be revised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    Can the damage from maces be increased due to the mace men being nobles and part of a warrior social class, because currently they're seriously outclassed by the other less elite/poorer sword counterparts.
    I changed that to 7/4 a while back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    Is there anyway to make elephants cheaper for Taksahila, maybe via a trait or something? At the moment, they're basically impossible for to afford even with 6 or 7 provinces and independence from the Mauryan empire, plus they're way too expensive to be worth the cost since one unit with javelins can kill a whole unit of elephants.
    There's no such discount for elephants in the trait system, only infantry/ships/cavalry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    Are there any planned changes to the faction?

    Finally, are there any planned new units? Just wondering because some sources (mostly the Arthashastra) say that a king should ensure that the center of his army should be made of infantry covered in armor or mail and that mail clad horses should be the center of the cavalry pointing to at least some armored groups/units in Mauryan forces which at the moment seem rather light.

    Thanks in advance for any responses, and thanks for all the amazing work on the mod!
    There are still several factional and regional units to be done. Also the settled "Skythian" (read Sakan) units are still to be made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganos Paran View Post
    Sorry not sure if I can edit, one last question, are here any plans to add a guild for the Surįshtra because they are also mentioned with the kambojas a a warrior "guild" though they may be off map
    You need to have made 25 posts before you can edit.

    No plans to use the guild system for Indian recruitment. We've already added the Indo-Greek guilds as a specific building for Taksashila.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  4. #4

    Default Re: Taksahilan Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    There's no such discount for elephants in the trait system, only infantry/ships/cavalry
    Quintus, if I may use this opportunity, the condition "TrainingUnits" in the EDCT works only for infantry? What's the condition for cavalry?
    Or you mean that this condition works only for inf/cav/ships, but not for elephants, artillery etc. ?
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 18, 2018 at 04:50 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Taksashilan Questions

    There's a TrainingAnimalUnits attribute but afaik it only applies to handler units like dogs and pigs in vanilla rtw.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Taksashilan Questions

    There's no such discount for elephants in the trait system, only infantry/ships/cavalry.
    There's a TrainingAnimalUnits attribute but afaik it only applies to handler units like dogs and pigs in vanilla rtw.
    Quintus, if I may use this opportunity, the condition "TrainingUnits" in the EDCT works only for infantry? What's the condition for cavalry?
    Or you mean that this condition works only for inf/cav/ships, but not for elephants, artillery etc. ?
    Wrong. Elephants are affected by TrainingUnits(I tested and proved this in the Gandhara factions thread on EBH). Problem: you can't just give a discount to elephant recruitment--it would also include a discount to ALL units; so that's a no-go. TrainingAnimalUnits doesn't work for any of our units in game--as much as I'd hoped it would work for cavalry and elephants(tests proved otherwise), so BHL 20 is spot on.

    Uhhh, Jurand, are you sure about that? I am almost 95% sure that cavalry costs are affected by TrainingUnits(I seem to recall them being affected by TrainingUnits just like elephants were); it's pretty much the only M2TW effect that reduces unit costs that we use in EBII.

    You can run a quick test of that on EBII:

    1)Brennos of the Boii starts out with GoodRecruiter(check his descr_strat entry for full details by ctrl+fing Brennos or Streuinta)
    2)Edit GoodRecruiter's first level from TrainingUnits 1 to something like 10(it's roughly 5% discount per point; this is technically unnecessary but jumping the discount from 5% to 50% should make things MUCH more pronounced)
    3)Start a boii campaign
    4)Compare unit costs between Brennos and the other FMs
    5)???
    6)Profit

    As a barb-lover, I haven't had the opportunity to test whether TrainingUnits affects siege weapons...I can't imagine that they wouldn't be, but I can't confirm as such.
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; May 18, 2018 at 07:24 AM.

  7. #7
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Taksashilan Questions

    Yes, sorry I wasn't very specific in my brief reply. My point was that there isn't a targeted discount that you can apply just to elephants (and not hit other units as well).
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  8. #8

    Default Re: Taksashilan Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Uhhh, Jurand, are you sure about that? I am almost 95% sure that cavalry costs are affected by TrainingUnits(I seem to recall them being affected by TrainingUnits just like elephants were); it's pretty much the only M2TW effect that reduces unit costs that we use in EBII.

    ... I haven't had the opportunity to test whether TrainingUnits affects siege weapons...I can't imagine that they wouldn't be, but I can't confirm as such.
    Actually I'm rather sure that you're right: TrainingUnits affects all types of units (it's why I was surprised by Quintus' response).

    I keep on correcting it in the Stainless Steel - for one reason or another there were a few descriptions "discount on infantry recruitment". Maybe it proliferated from the vanilla? I don't know.

    Anyway, I feel now reassured.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Taksashilan Questions

    Any particular reason shields were omitted in the bodyguard? Just asking because it seems a bit silly to see these guys blocking swords with their hands, plus its not like they couldn't just put their shield on the ground or on their chariot while shooting, and pick it up again for melee.

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