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Thread: Winter Years

  1. #1

    Default Winter Years

    I have been considering changing the usual process whereby every second campaign turn is in Winter. In general, fighting in Winter was not preferred for a number of obvious reasons. I am not at my PC right now, but one solution would be to remove them entirely, though I would prefer to randomise them with a 25% chance, or make them once every fourth turn etc.

    Thoughts? How to do?

    Thanks
    -PB

  2. #2
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Winter Years

    If we're talking 1 year per turn, then I agree with the randomization factor over the every other year. I'm thinking the randomization could represent an early/late winter that comes around unexpectedly while on campaign. So between the three, I think the randomized winters is most realistic and it seems most fun. My only concern is that adding more scripts adds turn load times. As long as the time burden isn't too great, randomization is good.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Agreed. But how?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Winter Years

    One turn per year sounds horrid.

    At least 2, preferably 4, perhaps 6.

  5. #5
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Winter Years

    @Point Blank: I did some research and I think that the weather is hard-coded. The only way to change it is turns per year.

    @Mamlaz: RR is set up for a turn per year unless PB has created 2 campaigns. I would suggest that if there isn't a 2-6 TPY campaign you could always do it yourself. Be aware, you would have to multiply all the recruit times by the TPY.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Winter Years

    1 TPY is reasonable given that usually a single expedition was launched in the spring or summer. Of course, like everything else it is somewhat of an abstraction.

    Part of the point of this mod is also to represent changes in technologies during the medieval period; at 4 TPY the game would be formidably long.

    Having said that, in a future update I intend to include Italian Wars and 100 Years War mini-campaigns with maps from the old Lands to Conquer mod, which would likely be at least 2 TPY.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    1 TPY is reasonable given that usually a single expedition was launched in the spring or summer.
    Yes, and the campaign would last through those few to several months, instead of several to a dozen years because that is how much turns it takes to finish a major war move in total war.

    In a 1TPY system, to invade Aquitaine as England, it will take me about 4-5 years to get (an already assembled)army there, 1 year to siege and 1 year to conquer, so 7 years of campaigning to capture a region.

    4TPY is far superior, especially for your winter theme as you will literally get the IRL 4 seasons per year with a 4TPY system.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Winter Years

    I don't disagree with you, but as I said, at some level the game will always be an abstraction. If you want to play a long campaign on the whole map covering maybe 2-300 years, at 4 TPY you are looking at 1000+ turns, which just isn't feasible.
    The mini campaigns I mentioned would be far more suitable candidates for multiple TPY, but at 4 TPY you are then looking at 2 winter turns per year, which is not realistic either.

    Someone should just decompile the M2TW executable and edit the code directly. I have an MS in computer science with a thesis in AI, so...
    Actually its something I have thought about for a while, though decompiled code can be pretty opaque.
    Last edited by Point Blank; June 15, 2018 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    If you want to play a long campaign on the whole map covering maybe 2-300 years, at 4 TPY you are looking at 1000+ turns, which just isn't feasible.
    How about you make a poll 4TPY vs 1TPY and see is it feasible for people to prefer the 1000 turn option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    at 4 TPY you are then looking at 2 winter turns per year, which is not realistic either.
    Where do you live you poor lad, where winter lasts 6 months? :O

  10. #10

    Default Re: Winter Years

    I've always preferred 2 turns per year.
    One winter, one summer.
    Makes for plenty of variation of battle scenarios.
    Recruitment / build times may need adjusting ofc.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Winter Years

    2 TPY could be made one of the startup options, but it would require a few adjustments to the relevant files, mostly economic, growth rates and campaign triggers. Nothing difficult though, just halve everything.
    Build times for Late Professionals could be left as they are, but otherwise replenishment rates could probably just be halved too.
    I would really like to do a 1370 scenario, that would go well with 2 TPY. All it needs is some new campaign startup and trigger files, everything else is pretty much handled automatically already.

    As far as winters, I live in Thailand so I don't really even remember what winters are like

    I'm going to start examining the possibility of decompiling the M2TW executable.
    Last edited by Point Blank; June 15, 2018 at 08:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Navajo Joe's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Winter Years

    PB,

    Is the Italian Wars and 100 Years War, the mini campaigns that were featured in 6.2?

    If they are that would be superb because I had alot of enjoyment from those two campaigns

    NJ





    'Proud to be patronised by cedric37(My Father and My Guardian)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Yes those are the ones, would be fun updated with RR and RC. The IW was set around 1250 though so it would be reset to around 1495.
    There was also a Reconquista campaign.
    Would also make them 2 or 4 TPY.

  14. #14
    Sigma's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Winter Years

    Two to Four turns per-year I think is the preferable standard for grand campaigns. From mods I've played over the years two turns per year is great if the game timeline is 300+ years and four turns per year for any timeline under that. If it's balanced right it gives you a nice meaty campaign and also allows you more room for setting things up like seasons and more balanced recruitment times. One turn per year is good if your want really quick games.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Yes I will include 2 TPY as a campaign option

  16. #16

    Default Re: Winter Years

    When I have a bit of time I will pump the M2TW executable through this decompiler and see what kind of source code it spits out, would be great to be able to make a few tweaks, though my C is pretty rusty:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/decompiler/
    Last edited by Point Blank; June 17, 2018 at 03:26 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Personally, I really like what BYG did with BGRV at 12 turns per year. The family tree and seasons pass at 12 turns per year. Therefore, one becomes extremely connected to one's family tree, and the seasons feel very real as well as there are three turns each of spring, summer, fall, and winter. But the event calendar and advances come at the normal pace of 1 turn per year, so that you still get to experience all of the different units, weapons, and armor combinations. Of course, this means that your family members and generals will live to see several hundreds of years of advances in their lifetimes, but I think the trade off of having more precious family members and really experiencing the years pass one-by-one is a more than equal trade-off.
    Last edited by Kilgore Trout; June 22, 2018 at 11:44 PM.
    Pleasant it is, when over a great sea the winds trouble the waters, to gaze from shore upon another's tribulation: not because any man's troubles are a delectable joy, but because to perceive from what ills you are free yourself is pleasant - Lucretius

  18. #18

    Default Re: Winter Years

    When playing a campaign in SS6.4 from 1221 to well into the 15th century, 1 TPY goes too fast and 2 TPY goes too slow in my opinion. The optimal would be 1.5 TPY. So in other words, 3 turns equal 2 years with 8 months each turn. Now you start in January (1/1), you move forward 8 months to September (9/1), then to May (5/1), to January (1/1), and repeat. If you start in January 1221, it's 1. turn autumn, 2. turn (new year) spring, 3. turn (new year) winter, 4. turn autumn, 5. turn (new year) spring, 6. turn (new year) winter, repeat.
    1221 winter
    1221 autumn
    1222 spring
    1223 winter
    1223 autumn
    1224 spring
    1225 winter

    1. year last 2 turns, 2. year last 1 turn, 3. year last 2 turns, 4 year last 1 turn and so on. That is the best option.

    The turne cycle for shorter campaigns (150 yrs, HYW) should at least be winter, summer, autumn, winter, summer, autumn, repeat, in my opinion. 3 turns per year. You should starting in May (5), and move to September (9), and to December (12), to May (5) (new year), to September (9), December (12), May (5) (new year) and repeat.

    On a very short campaign (like 50-75 years or so) you could use 8 turn per year with 1.5 months each turn. The advantage of this is that you only get 3 winter months, 1 autumn month, 1 spring month and 3 summer months. If you start in the middle of October, first winter turn would be the beginning of December, second winter turn would be the middle of January, and third turn would be the beginning of Mars. October could have random snow, but the rest, middle of April, the beginning of June, the middle of July, the beginning of September and the middle of October are without snow.
    Middle of October: Autumn
    Beginning of December: Winter
    Middle of January: Winter
    Beginning of Mars: Winter
    Middle of April: Spring
    Beginning of June: Summer
    Midddle of July: Summer
    Beginning of September: Summer
    Last edited by Strategos Autokrator; June 29, 2018 at 09:48 AM.
    "Alea iacta est"

  19. #19

    Default Re: Winter Years

    I remember playing a 1.5TPY campaign, it was a good rate yes. Will look at adding in that option

  20. #20

    Default Re: Winter Years

    Does anyone know, if I set the campaign at 2TPY, does the game automatically reduce the settlement growth rates and the funds they generate by 50%, or do I need to code that myself?

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