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Thread: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Icon5 Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Hi gang. I'm still knee-deep in my Makedonia campaign (and have previously played Koinon Hellenon and Pergamon campaigns), but in the very near future I plan on starting my very first Romani campaign. I just want to know from players experienced with that particular faction, i.e. the Roman Republic, if they could offer any advice on building governments in conquered regions. Although I am very familiar with Hellenistic Greek government types, I know very little about Roman recruitment and the building tree in general. I've obviously recruited Roman troops and Italic troops throughout Italia as Western Greek factions, but that was through allied governments (i.e. either democracy or oligarchy) and those auxiliary barracks that recruit local native troops. In and outside of the Italian peninsula, what are the best options for government types?

    With an aim for the best recruitment options available, how should I look to the future after passing the mile-markers for the Polybian and Marian reforms? Should I demolish and rebuild government types over time to ensure the best recruitment options? Is that necessary? What are the best government types for the Italian mainland? How varied are my options in building government types outside of Italy? Do the Romans have native troops that can colonize and become recruits in distant territories? Do you have to wait until the Marian period for that? I don't know anything about this stuff, so any advice or pointers would be great to hear.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    It's actually pretty straightforward. Free City is a "weaker" allied government which allows family members to govern the province at the cost of being super limited in construction options, and only one time recruitment. It's not very practical unless you like to roleplay still build it in provinces like Liguria, the unrest there is so crazy high that the 5 extra happiness percentage and ability to be governed by FM makes all the difference, it's literally not possible to hold it as a client state.

    Province is your ultimate government for anything outside Italy, but it offers no recruitment until Marian Era. So yeah. Your only option for any REAL recruitment outside Italy is either an Allied State or mercenaries.

    As for which government is the best in Italy - you can keep Ius Latinorum for as long as you want as it offers you access to unique units which you would otherwise lose moving to a higher government tier. You can gain roman recruitment by constructing colonies within Italy, and that's the only place you can build actual colonies in until Marian reforms. Personally I prefer to build Ius Latinorum to an Allie State in Rhegium and Tarentum, as they too are less rebellious with a FM governing them than as a client state. Plus, the recruitment doesn't differ that much.

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    It's actually pretty straightforward. Free City is a "weaker" allied government which allows family members to govern the province at the cost of being super limited in construction options, and only one time recruitment. It's not very practical unless you like to roleplay still build it in provinces like Liguria, the unrest there is so crazy high that the 5 extra happiness percentage and ability to be governed by FM makes all the difference, it's literally not possible to hold it as a client state.

    Province is your ultimate government for anything outside Italy, but it offers no recruitment until Marian Era. So yeah. Your only option for any REAL recruitment outside Italy is either an Allied State or mercenaries.

    As for which government is the best in Italy - you can keep Ius Latinorum for as long as you want as it offers you access to unique units which you would otherwise lose moving to a higher government tier. You can gain roman recruitment by constructing colonies within Italy, and that's the only place you can build actual colonies in until Marian reforms. Personally I prefer to build Ius Latinorum to an Allie State in Rhegium and Tarentum, as they too are less rebellious with a FM governing them than as a client state. Plus, the recruitment doesn't differ that much.
    Thank you for this excellent response and summary of provincial and allied government types! I wasn't even aware that there was a "weaker" allied government type for any faction, so that's interesting. As Western Greek factions, I have also had problems with Liguria, but I usually smooth that out with low taxes and, if I lose it to rebellion, sacking/extermination if the client ruler I've recruited there isn't good enough to keep the city inhabitants in line. I've only had to do that once, though. Perhaps it's a more severe problem for the Romans. Even after the death of my client ruler in my most recent campaign as Makedonia, the city has remained content or in the yellow as far as public order is concerned, but the client ruler had a lot of influence, Hellenized the region thoroughly, and lived long enough for me to build decent infrastructure there.

    Quick question: how do you recruit Rome's auxiliary Pedites Extraordinarii heavy swordsman unit in Italy? They are beasts on the battlefield, but I have been unable to recruit them as Western Greek factions. The only Roman troops available to me are the Equites, Principes, Hastati, and Velites (transformed into some Marian units once the Marian reforms inevitably kick in through a trigger in the later part of the game). Do you need the Ius Latinorum to recruit Pedites Extraordinarii or is it something else?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Pedites Extraordinarii come from the Socii government after the Polybian reform, and aren't available in the Ius Latinorum. After all, they are an allied unit, not a Roman one.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Pedites Extraordinarii come from the Socii government after the Polybian reform, and aren't available in the Ius Latinorum. After all, they are an allied unit, not a Roman one.
    Thanks! That's good to know. I'll have more questions, no doubt, when I start my Romani campaign. Cheers.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Crush all under foot, Roma!
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Crush all under foot, Roma!
    I will see them driven before me, Rad. And then I will hear the lamentations of their womenfolk. Jupiter Crom has spoken!

    Quick question: can I continue recruiting Pedites Extraordinarii into the Marian period? Or do they also disappear like the other allied auxiliaries and regional Italic units?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Quick question: can I continue recruiting Pedites Extraordinarii into the Marian period? Or do they also disappear like the other allied auxiliaries and regional Italic units?
    They disappear, like every other Italic unit that hasn't already by then.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    I will see them driven before me, Rad. And then I will hear the lamentations of their womenfolk. Jupiter Crom has spoken!
    That is good! That is good!
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Now that I'm knee deep into a Roman campaign at long last (after a long EBII hiatus to test play the latest version of TATW Reunited Kingdom), I am reviving this thread to ask another question. Before the Marian Reforms, I understand that making the provincial government instead of allied ones is good for troublesome settlements (like the one in Liguria) that need better infrastructure development and constant babysitting by family members with good governance traits (since client rulers die off and sometimes those settlements turn red and rebellious in terms of public contentment). Doing that also helps the overall internal Roman economy in the long run, I suppose.

    When I approach the Marian reforms during the mid to late 2nd century BC, though, should I start converting a good number of those allied governments into provincial ones instead? For those who have played Roman campaigns, what would you guys suggest? How do I strike a good balance between allied and provincial governments? I want to keep a lot of allied governments because regional units are cool and add flair to the Roman army aside from standard mercenaries recruited outside of settlements. Should I get rid of like half of them or even two-thirds of allied governments in favor of provincial ones? The Marian units are beasts, after all, especially given the enormous sizes of those units compared to previous Camillan and Polybian units (200 men per unit instead of 160, and in terms of Antesignani versus Triarii, 160 of the former versus a puny 90 or so guys in the latter unit).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Let us follow you progress with screenshots

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    Let us follow you progress with screenshots
    Way ahead of you, since I'll be taking a campaign map screenshot every 50 turns with my major save points. That being said, do you have any advice per my latest post and queries about building different types of governments?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Way ahead of you, since I'll be taking a campaign map screenshot every 50 turns with my major save points. That being said, do you have any advice per my latest post and queries about building different types of governments?
    Nice

    I never played that far in a Roman campaign (most of the times I played the Romans was just to try or to test certain things in game). However, since the Marian reforms wasn't a event that happened on a restrict period of time, it was something that took many many years and Marius only had a limited influence in that, you could start gradually replacing the allied governments with provincial ones and keep doing that even long after the Marian reforms. The only exceptions would be revolts since a lot of cities lost their independence due to revolts against Roma or sided with the losing side in civil wars (like Massalia).

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    That's a very good point. I think for role-playing purposes, before the Marian reforms any settlement that rebels against me will be reconquered, sacked, and their allied government will be replaced with a provincial one. That ought to give me plenty of provincial governments, since revolts happen on occasion midway through the campaign. Again, it's also an excuse to move more family members around and outside of Italy, although it's wise to keep many in Italy given how they often have to go to Rome for elections (if they're eligible for office after serving in the army for seven years).

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    I am happy to have learned that, outside of allied governments altogether, you can have "free cities" (civitas libertas) or full Roman provinces (provinciae). The "free cities", although not having an impressive economy like the provincial government, can still recruit local/regional units AND they can be upgraded to a full provincial government whenever I desire it, so I don't have to go through the headache, dangers and painful process of bulldozing the government and starting again from scratch. Yippee! You guys did well with this choice here. I need more settlements where I can host my new various family members, without violating allied governments and causing unrest with interlopers.

    Also, at turn 102/103 (i.e. in 147 BC) I got a most welcome message: the Polybian military reforms! That's because I took Sicily, northern Italy, and fought five big land battles with Carthage, defeating them and even getting a couple of generals their triumphs in Rome, with elephants to boot! It's fun how you can have elephant units sent to Rome every time you beat one in battle.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    247 BC you mean?
    Playing with the romans can be one of the best experiences in the game due to their organization and regular armies (especially if the player likes standardized armies). One of the best things for me it's the political system, the fact that you have to take your eligible FMs to Roma. That system really made me understand how the Carthaginian system works.

    By the way, what is your opinion of forts in game?

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    I've never ever gotten to the Marian reforms in EBIIm I'm eager to see how this turns out!

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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    How did you manage to get 5 battles necessary with Carthage? I don't see any good way to go about it short of landing in North Africa, Sicily alone did not give me enough armies to fight them until it was turn 150.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    How did you manage to get 5 battles necessary with Carthage? I don't see any good way to go about it short of landing in North Africa, Sicily alone did not give me enough armies to fight them until it was turn 150.
    We're fixing that in the next patch; taking Messana will trigger a spawned army and "reinforcements" in Lilubim.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: Advice for Romani campaign, building varied provincial governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    247 BC you mean?
    Oops! You got to my typo before I did.

    By the way, what is your opinion of forts in game?
    I wouldn't mind them at all, but unfortunately the AI acts like total idiots with them, apparently, and only garrisons them, not the actual settlements they need to defend.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    How did you manage to get 5 battles necessary with Carthage? I don't see any good way to go about it short of landing in North Africa, Sicily alone did not give me enough armies to fight them until it was turn 150.
    I actually got to fight four big field battles in Sicily, not counting the sieges at all! I fought the fifth battle in Libya, though, so yes, I had to land an army in North Africa to taunt them and make sure I got another battle out of them. I think they built up a bunch of forces in Sicily because they were besieging Syracusae when I got there, and the rebel force there is obviously very strong. I basically came in and rained on their parade.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    We're fixing that in the next patch; taking Messana will trigger a spawned army and "reinforcements" in Lilubim.
    Wait a minute...are you sure this isn't in the latest build already? Because I swear the Carthaginians, without landing a new army, spawned one filled with a curious amount of the same units, Ligurian Spearmen and Ligurian Swordsmen, all with the same level of experience (as you would expect from a spawned, artificially generated army).

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