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Thread: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

  1. #201

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Could the EU threaten to pass sanctions on Israel to put some weight on the deal?


  2. #202

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    Could the EU threaten to pass sanctions on Israel to put some weight on the deal?
    The EU can't even manage to write a letter saying they're upset without it being blocked by Hungary, Romania and the Czech Republic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #203

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Pompeo is not kidding around:



    The US will aim to "crush" Iran with economic and military pressure unless it changes its behavior in the Middle East, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Monday.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/polit...ech/index.html
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  4. #204
    Voltaire.'s Avatar Delusions of Grandeur
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    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Does he want a pony for his birthday too?

  5. #205

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    I actually think he was being very generous toward Iran. Note that all his requests relate to Iran's foreign policy. There is no mention of reforms to Iran's system of government or domestic oppression. It's basically "leave us alone and we'll leave you alone." Not good. Khamenei's continuing oppression of, e.g., Christians, is completely unacceptable, even if Iran entirely ended its aggressive foreign policy and pursuit of nuclear weapons.
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    But regime change is still the goal here is it not? This is how you state that goal without literally stating it, after all that's been the goal of this particular clique of aggressive foreign policy hawks (Bolton, Pompeo, etc) and this is the best route for them to take in achieving that goal. Iran isn't going to agree to neuter themselves internationally when they have aspirations of being the Regional power. Rouhani and the moderates have now lost all credibility in their country because the hardliners in their minds have been proven absolutely correct that the US can't be trusted so any shot at getting to the table with substantive internal support in Iran is shot. Iran has already been suffocated economically and the most they were willing to bend is what we had, why are they suddenly expected to go even further and even if they were open to dialogue why bother if the US in their eyes is just going to keep moving the goalpost further down every time.

    I don't really see how this doesn't end up in some form of conflict. Either in a Civil War which mirrors Syria, restarting their nuclear program giving Israel their justification to strike, or Iran lashing our aggressively. All 3 options giving the US the necessary justification to intervene.

  7. #207
    Praepositus
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    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    I actually think he was being very generous toward Iran.
    I think he's being very generous towards the Saudis. While I support the end to Irans endless lashing at Israel, their opposition to Saudi genocide in Yemen is not critical to US interests. Ditto Syria: I dislike Baathist regimes but they are infinitely preferable to religious regimes as Iran and the Saudis prove over and over. Overall this is a wishlist that favours Saudi dominance of the region, and would surely lead to more bloodshed and extermination of minority groups like Yazidis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar109 View Post
    But regime change is still the goal here is it not? ...
    There is no way for the Iranian regime to comply with this list and continue to exist. Pompeo is clearly for starting another Iraq. The recent elections in Iraq (which are probably about as legitimate as theany of the previous ones) where Iranian influence has been diminished look like pre-positioning for a US strike from the west.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  8. #208

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar109 View Post
    But regime change is still the goal here is it not? This is how you state that goal without literally stating it, after all that's been the goal of this particular clique of aggressive foreign policy hawks (Bolton, Pompeo, etc) and this is the best route for them to take in achieving that goal. Iran isn't going to agree to neuter themselves internationally when they have aspirations of being the Regional power. Rouhani and the moderates have now lost all credibility in their country because the hardliners in their minds have been proven absolutely correct that the US can't be trusted so any shot at getting to the table with substantive internal support in Iran is shot. Iran has already been suffocated economically and the most they were willing to bend is what we had, why are they suddenly expected to go even further and even if they were open to dialogue why bother if the US in their eyes is just going to keep moving the goalpost further down every time.

    I don't really see how this doesn't end up in some form of conflict. Either in a Civil War which mirrors Syria, restarting their nuclear program giving Israel their justification to strike, or Iran lashing our aggressively. All 3 options giving the US the necessary justification to intervene.
    They're fairly reasonable demands. It's a request for Iran to stop harassing other countries in exchange for relatively friendly relations. If that is too much to ask, that just shows how the interests of Khamenei's regime are fundamentally opposed to peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I think he's being very generous towards the Saudis. While I support the end to Irans endless lashing at Israel, their opposition to Saudi genocide in Yemen is not critical to US interests. Ditto Syria: I dislike Baathist regimes but they are infinitely preferable to religious regimes as Iran and the Saudis prove over and over. Overall this is a wishlist that favours Saudi dominance of the region, and would surely lead to more bloodshed and extermination of minority groups like Yazidis.
    Not just Saudi Barbaria. Iran has managed the impossible feat of uniting the entire region against it.

    Admittedly I haven't kept up with the Syrian civil war, but I was under the impression it was mostly over. Russia is already telling Iran to prepare to get out. The only reason for Iran to maintain any significant military presence in Syria, is as a base from which to commit aggression against e.g. Israel and Lebanon. That is highly unlikely to bring the region closer to peace.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/tehran...y-leave-syria/
    Best ever description of the Mudpit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    This is what radicalization looks like, when someone dwells rather too long in the darkest recesses of online bigotry and feels the need to project this filth on others as if they were the honeyed words of some messiah guru or mahdhi.

  9. #209
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    They're fairly reasonable demands. It's a request for Iran to stop harassing other countries in exchange for relatively friendly relations. If that is too much to ask, that just shows how the interests of Khamenei's regime are fundamentally opposed to peace.
    Because nobody else has a policy of harassing other countries? Notably the US. The key problem here is the Nuclear deal dealt with a specific issue where Iran was vulnerable because it was still a signatory the NPT. Having a foreign policy, not being a US puppet, not liking Israel or the House of Saud, being sorta pissed at the US for toppling its government and imposing a tyrannical dictatorship are kinda things that every country gets the chance to do. If we don't like them fine, but we cannot expect others to see anything but US whinny-ness, and on the particulars here stupidly for leaving a deal that was working on the specific issue where there was a legal basis for them to work.
    Last edited by conon394; May 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM.
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  10. #210

    Default Re: Trump pulls U.S. out of Iran nuclear deal

    This is Trump's big flaw, an unreasonably aggressive foreign policy towards Iran. realistically, Iran hasn't really done anything bad to US, at least not on a scale that US harmed Iran and its interests. If they want to go ahead and build a nuke so be it, you can't force them not to unless you do so in regards to other states like Israel and Saudi Arabia.
    By means of ever more effective methods of mind-manipulation, the democracies will change their nature; the quaint old forms -- elections, parliaments, Supreme Courts and all the rest -- will remain. The underlying substance will be a new kind of non-violent totalitarianism. All the traditional names, all the hallowed slogans will remain exactly what they were in the good old days. Democracy and freedom will be the theme of every broadcast and editorial [...]. Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit.
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