Morality of abortion

**Prodromos** · February 17, 2019, 11:24 PM

He's trolling, ep1c_fail.

**basics** · February 18, 2019, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by 95thrifleman

Well considering the orthodox christian doctrine of "Kill them all, God will know his own." and "Deus Vult." suits the growing right wing extreme, I am not srprised.

In the west we see a polarisation of political and social opinion, there is no middle ground anymore. Good, old fashioned christian doctrines of let the babies grow up so we can kill them in the name of God later is on a revival.

That's the problem isn't it? Cherry picking what is "traditional" in christian teaching and ignoring what you find inconveniant. We all know the right wing christians look at islam with jealous eyes, wishing they can follow the bible's teachings and throw their own "faggots" off of rooftops but for now they will stick to the "safe" doctrines like abortion and gay marriage.

Legislate that christian theocracy slowly, you'll get to burning witches, hanging gays and killing anyone who doesn't follow your doctrine later.......

95thrifleman,

I've never read such nonsense in all my life.

**95thrifleman** · February 18, 2019, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by basics

95thrifleman,

I've never read such nonsense in all my life.

Cl

Clearly you've never read the history of christianity.

**Gaidin** · February 18, 2019, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by basics

95thrifleman,

I've never read such nonsense in all my life.

It only took us twenty years to get rid of DADT and boy did the American Right kick and scream along the way.

**Prodromos** · February 18, 2019, 10:50 AM

The irony of pagans judging Christianity by its history instead of its doctrines.

**PointOfViewGun** · February 18, 2019, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Prodromos

The irony of pagans judging Christianity by its history instead of its doctrines.

Trying to accuse people of being pagans in the most pathetic manner shows us that your position on abortion has no merit. Otherwise, we'd be discussing that.

**Prodromos** · February 18, 2019, 12:13 PM

I'm pretty sure we stopped discussing abortion five pages ago.

**PointOfViewGun** · February 18, 2019, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Prodromos

I'm pretty sure we stopped discussing abortion five pages ago.

Exactly.

**The spartan** · February 18, 2019, 05:35 PM

I am ignoring the two posts before this as they basically boil down to "I follow the correct interpretation of Christianity, therefor Christians who don't agree with me aren't Christian", which just reaffirms their use of fallacy.

Originally Posted by ep1c_fail

The notion of "acceptance" that you've introduced here is a little complicated. Acceptance is not synonymous with advocacy: there is a compulsion for believers to adhere to Christ's teachings, not to resist secular legislation (ie. the state). "Then saith he [Christ] unto them, 'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's'". (Matt. 22: 21).

For the purposes of society, that is just fine. We live in rather secular societies where we don't tend to use scripture to restrict the rights of others. The Law tends to ask for secular justification for their legal interpretations.

Originally Posted by ep1c_fail

It is certainly true that no man or movement has a monopoly on the Christian identity and yet the concept of "identity" is by its very nature reciprocal. A central purpose of identity is communicative: that is, to simplify information into a label which can be rapidly imparted. For this process to be beneficial rather than counter productive, there must be a mutual understanding between separate parties of what specific identities imply.

Yes, you are trying to describe a tight, group identity. Religion is not that. How many denominations of Christianity are there again? Like, six big ones? Practices seem far more dependent on local culture than a unified tradition; European Christians behave and promote very differently than Southern Baptists in the US. For Southern Baptists to say that they are adhering to "proper" Christianity and that European Christians are doing it wrong is...not an impressive argument.

Originally Posted by ep1c_fail

Notwithstanding, men will always identify both themselves and others at their leisure. A self-characterization does not necessarily trump an external one and vice versa. That said, I was careful to write that pro-choice advocates cannot be beholden to the traditional moral framework(s) of Christianity, not that they couldn't be Christian.

But you don't have authority to determine the "traditional moral framework" of Christianity. Why should I believe your interpretation above another Christian from another part of the World? Like, if you say something about Christianity, and the Pope states something contradictory to that, I am probably going to believe the Pope has better authority on what Christianity actually is than you. Or Basics, or Prodromos.

**ep1c_fail** · February 18, 2019, 08:45 PM

Yes, you are trying to describe a tight, group identity. Religion is not that. How many denominations of Christianity are there again? Like, six big ones? Practices seem far more dependent on local culture than a unified tradition; European Christians behave and promote very differently than Southern Baptists in the US. For Southern Baptists to say that they are adhering to "proper" Christianity and that European Christians are doing it wrong is...not an impressive argument.

But you don't have authority to determine the "traditional moral framework" of Christianity. Why should I believe your interpretation above another Christian from another part of the World? Like, if you say something about Christianity, and the Pope states something contradictory to that, I am probably going to believe the Pope has better authority on what Christianity actually is than you. Or Basics, or Prodromos.

It is not my intention to determine the traditional moral framework of Christianity. The Roman Papacy, the General Synod (that is the legislative body of the Church of England) and the Orthodox Patriarchs (including the Coptic Pope) all agree that abortion and its advocacy (again with limited exceptions) is condemned by Christ's teachings. There are certain branches of the protestant movement (such as Methodism) which take a more nuanced approach to the issue, but even these more liberal churches tend to treat abortion as an inappropriate alternative to birth control.

**Prodromos** · Yesterday, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by The spartan

I am ignoring the two posts before this as they basically boil down to "I follow the correct interpretation of Christianity, therefor Christians who don't agree with me aren't Christian", which just reaffirms their use of fallacy.

That's a bogus strawman. My post clearly states that sectarianism is wrong, but disagreements between Christians are still only permitted with regard to non-essentials; that's why it isn't sectarian to state that atheism is incompatible with Christianity. My post also explains how No True Scotsman doesn't even apply to creeds, or logical or analytic truths.

**basics** · Yesterday, 02:37 AM

It is written that interpretation of the Scriptures is not and cannot be of man, rather the leading of the Holy Ghost Who is present in a man and that is backed up by what Jesus taught as well as the teachings of Paul and the others. Man has been well warned of false teachings, false gospels, by them all, so it comes as no surprise that the very first peoples to be judged will be those that claim to be Christians. That judgement will not be on what they have done rather by what the Word of God has given them to do and so many will cry out this and that in His name yet He will tell them that He never knew them. That said even those that are not of God know that murder is wrong and that includes the fetus in the womb.