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Thread: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

  1. #21

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Have you been familiar with real warfare history? In real battle of that period fallen man sooner will be stomped on by any "friends". If we speak about late era of medieval times, heavy armour and late era close and dense battle formations with pikes and halberds and greatswords.

    I am familiar and no.

    Such battles were actually quite rank organized and tight nit in most cases for most of the time, it is only when breakthroughs happened that chaos ensued.

    For example, at Agincourt, the French tried to capture the cousin of king Henry, and he with a few bodyguards literally had to fight against the French line while at the same time pulling the cousin back to safety from the clutches of the French, and they succeeded.

    With pikes and halberds it was even more so.

    For example, Sir Francis Vere describes falling in armor in midst of the enemy soldiery and continuing to fight while on the ground, also describes the Spanish pike feint retreating and re-launching a pike charge several times without losing cohesion;

    "And so presently I can at push of pike with them(the Spanish). Where, at the first encounter, my horse being slain under me with a blow of a pike, and falling on me so as I could not suddenly rise, I lay as betwixt both troops till our men had made the enemy give back; receiving a hurt in my leg, and divers thrusts with pikes through my garments. It was very hard-fought on both sides, till our shot(gunners), spreading themselves along the skirt of the wood, as I had before directed, flanked and sore galled the enemy: so that they could no longer endure, but were forced to give back: which they did without any great disorder, in troop. And, as they were hard followed by our men, they turned and made head manfully, which they did four several times till they broke."

  2. #22
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    the battles are what make the TW series stand out - if you want more in-depth strategic gameplay you would be better off with Europa Universalis.
    I agree, but it's just part of the issue. The relation between your performance in the battles and the strategic level is also important. All the traits got from winning, fighting or personally killing the enemies should translate into the traits of a general - this is something what makes the TW standing out (besides, the EU war system is absurdity: the required ability of the player is to watch the times of your army and the AI army entering a province - you have to make such manoeuvres that you fight in an advantageous position (more men, basically).

    PB, I've got a question: what's the impact on the javelins firing from behind one unit into the enemies? (have a look at the situation here)
    For those who want to play a historical mod in a medieval setting:
    try either the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project + minimods,
    or the Broken Crescent + Buff and Shine submod.
    ..........................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods: SSHIP (2018), Wrath of the Norsemen (2018), Broken Crescent (2018).
    Minimods for the SSHIP: Generals Traits, Provincial Titles, Crowns.
    Short guides for the SSHIP: population growth, forts and watchtowers.
    Pros and cons of having Merchants in an M2TW mod.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Dominant strategy in Attila TW and Rome 2 TW: “Sniping groups of armies”.
    A review of the Thrones of Britannia after the Sept 2018 update.

  3. #23

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Depends on range...if longer, the arcs will be steeper, so less friendly fire, but also less accuracy, so...
    If enemy unit engaged in melee with one of yours, and has a shallow formation, expect more friendlies to be hit too.
    I think something like that.

  4. #24

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    One thing;

    I tested javeliners in the shieldwall formation, and when you put them in shieldwall formation, they raise their javelins into overhand stance, so when the enemy comes into range, they throw their javelins right away without the raising animation.

    I know that shieldwall formation is flawed in M2 and is not used because of it, but would it be possible to transfer this stance to be the default stance of idle javeliners?

    This would make them far more reliable in their initial volley.

  5. #25
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    "Peasants" must be able to kill a GENERAL'S Bodyguard even with the hard way.
    I explain...
    In TGC mod we have peasants with axes , axes+javelins etc...An axe though no matter how humble the unit is is an AP weapon.
    Each unit must recieve the proper stats according to the weapons it uses.
    An other TGC example. Lombard bowmen use a bow close to long bow...The arrow they use also give them extra damage and range.
    But the unit is totaly unarmored and use knives and have no chance of a melee combat. If the player though protect them well they can make a huge diference.
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  6. #26

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    There are peasant infantry units armed with rudimentary or crude pole weapons, farming implements etc, with the AP attribute. Axes (aside from specialist ones such as so-called poleaxes etc) are no longer AP in RC.

  7. #27
    Erunion Telcontar's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Point Blank, I dug up my old password and account info for this site just to tell you how stupidly excited I am for your upcoming release.
    Fantastic work, and keep it up!

    +Rep for anyone who can translate! (The above)
    Auta i lóme! Aurë entuluva!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Did you also take care of Kingdoms weapons like maquahuitl, chimalli, atlatl, tomahawk. ichcahuipilli and hornet nests?
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  9. #29

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Hello, you have made a good mod.

    I am planning on implementing RC 2.0 into the grand campaign and kingdoms campaigns, just the RC part. Similar to what Destin Faroda is doing but he wants to add new things whereas I just want to stick to the base game.

    So i would like to see this done too:

    Did you also take care of Kingdoms weapons like maquahuitl, chimalli, atlatl, tomahawk. ichcahuipilli and hornet nests?
    One problem I have is how do I apply all the factor levels (unit quality, weapons, heat penalties e.t.c.) for any given unit?
    Its just that it's not always clear cut. For example vanilla has like 5 levels of unit quality and RC 2.0 has like 7 levels of unit quality. How do know if i have applied a level of unit quality correctly?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by pak88 View Post
    I am planning on implementing RC 2.0 into the grand campaign and kingdoms campaigns, just the RC part. Similar to what Destin Faroda is doing but he wants to add new things whereas I just want to stick to the base game.
    In the beginning, I too would be content with adding the RC 2 values into the base game. Unlike Warscape games, vanilla Medieval Kingdoms II is quite good. Still, some better textures, some fixes and ReallyBadAI never hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by pak88 View Post
    One problem I have is how do I apply all the factor levels (unit quality, weapons, heat penalties e.t.c.) for any given unit?
    I too had problems with picking unit quality. That's not something you can copy from somewhere, you have to do it on your own. Some values can be retrieved from http://www.stainless-steel-mod.com/ though.
    Weapon damage, heat, armour etc. can be found in Point Blank's text file which explains RC2 and lists all values. Cavalry was a bit complicated though.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  11. #31

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Destin Faroda View Post
    Did you also take care of Kingdoms weapons like maquahuitl, chimalli, atlatl, tomahawk. ichcahuipilli and hornet nests?
    Not yet, I do not know enought about those weapons to determine the stats; will look into it.

  12. #32
    DrBeast's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Been ages since I last played any rendition of M2:TW (last one was Third Age a few years ago) but here I am again. Thought I'd try out SS this time since I've never played it. Good to see some people are still actively modding this game.

  13. #33

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    M2TW is still very active through the modding community, almost every aspect can be changed, compared to the more recent games.

    My periodic health issues have come up this week but I am working towards the release

  14. #34
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    M2TW is still very active through the modding community, almost every aspect can be changed, compared to the more recent games.
    Indeed. In the newer TW games, modding capabilities have been greatly restricted. Stuff like ReallyBadAI or total conversions are not possible anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    My periodic health issues have come up this week but I am working towards the release
    Don't overdo it. Health comes first.
    My Mods:
    RCM 2 for Medieval II Total War Kingdoms
    A battle realism mod for all four Medieval II Total War Kingdoms campaigns

    Shogun II Total Realism
    A realism mod for Shogun II, Rise of the Samurai and Fall of the Samurai

  15. #35
    Erunion Telcontar's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Not gonna lie - part of me is thinking 'Just truck through this and get 'er done!'
    That's just because I'm excited. You do fantastic work.

    Get well first, then when you have the time and health get it done.

    +Rep for anyone who can translate! (The above)
    Auta i lóme! Aurë entuluva!

  16. #36

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Thanks guys, playtesting right now

  17. #37
    Erunion Telcontar's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    !!!!!

    Important question - should I be checking this sub-forum twice a day, daily, or weekly? (What's the probable release timeline?)

    I am extremely excited!!!

    +Rep for anyone who can translate! (The above)
    Auta i lóme! Aurë entuluva!

  18. #38

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Thanks guys, playtesting right now

    Hey, get better soon dude.
    Will I be able to implement the new version in BGRIV-E? I´m really looking forward to it!

  19. #39

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Medieval foot archer quivers would rarely pass 25ish arrows(apart from the medieval Romans ofc who carried arrow bags)
    Yes, arrow bags usually had 24 arrows, but archers had between 71 and 88 arrows. They had to bring 23-40 arrows to the muster. The rest, 48 arrows, or two sheafs, were supplied by the crown.



    At least 40 arrows.
    James Skidmore in 1440 was to serve with:
    "... as a man at arms with vj. [6] archers in his company, all on horsbak and wele chosen men, and likely personnes wele and suffisantly armed, horsed and arrayed ev'ry man after his degree; that is to say, that the seid James Skidmore have hernis his degree; that is to say that the seid James Skidmore have hernis complete wt basnet or salade, with viser, spere, axe, swerd, and dagger; And all the seid archers specially to have good jakks of defence, salades, swerds and sheves of xl. [40] arwes atte least"

    30 arrows.
    The Abbeville ordinance: 31 July 1471
    "The three mounted archers must each equip themselves with 30 arrows, a bow, a two-handed sword and a dagger."


    30, or at least 23 arrows.
    The Statutes and Ordinances of War issued at Calais, 1513
    "every archer had his bow and arrows whole; that is to wit, in arrows 30, or 23 headed and whole in sheaf at the least"


    24 arrows.
    Henry Barrett, a member of the Yeoman of the Guard writing a marching order diagram in 1550.
    "... a sheaf of arrows in number xxiv [24] whereof I whish viii [8] of them more flighter then the rest to gall and annoy the enimyes farter of then the usuall custom of the sheafe arrowes, whose sharp hallshot (hail-shot) may not be indured, neither may th'enimyes putt up hande or face to incounter the same"


    24 arrows.
    Sir John Smythe writing in 1590.
    "every man one sheaf of arrows, with a case of leather, defensible against the rain... whereof eight [arrows] should be lighter ... to gall or astonish the enemy before they shall come within the danger of ... harquebuss shot."

    Here from Clifford J. Rogers' article: The Battle of Agincourt.
    "At Poitiers, according to the Eulogium historiarum, some archers loosed over a hundred shafts before the battle was decided, however, Geoffrey le Baker indicates that in order to do this they had to recover arrows from the ground and from the bodies of “half-dead wretches” during a pause in the fighting."
    Le Baker, Chronicon, 150; Eulogium historiarum, ed. F. S. Haydon, 3 vols. (London, 1858–1863), 2:225.
    http://1.droppdf.com/…/the-hundred-years-war-part-ii-villal…
    "Alea iacta est"

  20. #40

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos Autokrator View Post
    Yes, arrow bags usually had 24 arrows, but archers had between 71 and 88 arrows. They had to bring 23-40 arrows to the muster. The rest, 48 arrows, or two sheafs, were supplied by the crown.



    At least 40 arrows.
    James Skidmore in 1440 was to serve with:
    "... as a man at arms with vj. [6] archers in his company, all on horsbak and wele chosen men, and likely personnes wele and suffisantly armed, horsed and arrayed ev'ry man after his degree; that is to say, that the seid James Skidmore have hernis his degree; that is to say that the seid James Skidmore have hernis complete wt basnet or salade, with viser, spere, axe, swerd, and dagger; And all the seid archers specially to have good jakks of defence, salades, swerds and sheves of xl. [40] arwes atte least"

    30 arrows.
    The Abbeville ordinance: 31 July 1471
    "The three mounted archers must each equip themselves with 30 arrows, a bow, a two-handed sword and a dagger."


    30, or at least 23 arrows.
    The Statutes and Ordinances of War issued at Calais, 1513
    "every archer had his bow and arrows whole; that is to wit, in arrows 30, or 23 headed and whole in sheaf at the least"


    24 arrows.
    Henry Barrett, a member of the Yeoman of the Guard writing a marching order diagram in 1550.
    "... a sheaf of arrows in number xxiv [24] whereof I whish viii [8] of them more flighter then the rest to gall and annoy the enimyes farter of then the usuall custom of the sheafe arrowes, whose sharp hallshot (hail-shot) may not be indured, neither may th'enimyes putt up hande or face to incounter the same"


    24 arrows.
    Sir John Smythe writing in 1590.
    "every man one sheaf of arrows, with a case of leather, defensible against the rain... whereof eight [arrows] should be lighter ... to gall or astonish the enemy before they shall come within the danger of ... harquebuss shot."

    Here from Clifford J. Rogers' article: The Battle of Agincourt.
    "At Poitiers, according to the Eulogium historiarum, some archers loosed over a hundred shafts before the battle was decided, however, Geoffrey le Baker indicates that in order to do this they had to recover arrows from the ground and from the bodies of “half-dead wretches” during a pause in the fighting."
    Le Baker, Chronicon, 150; Eulogium historiarum, ed. F. S. Haydon, 3 vols. (London, 1858–1863), 2:225.
    http://1.droppdf.com/…/the-hundred-years-war-part-ii-villal…

    ...so you argue they had 70-80+ arrows by providing sources describing 24-40 arrows....?

    Also, your sources are for very late medieval and early modern archer troops, which were a product of a far superior system of military than what nearly the entirety of the rest of the medieval period had to offer.

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